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  #426  
Old 12-22-2011, 08:56 PM
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does anyone have any birth data on michelle? i know the astrology forum is closed, but i would like to have a friend do an event chart on last known / seen time and place.

I would need the address of ds2 condo for lat / long coordinates and birth data for michelle.

thanks
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  #427  
Old 12-22-2011, 09:08 PM
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When I was growing up there, our house was in a clearing surrounded by woods, and we had bee hives back in the woods that a friend would tend. So if there are hives at that place, they may not be right out in the open.

(We did not have an orange house with purple trim).

Seems highly unlikely that anyone would pick a place for disposal of remains when there's an occupied house nearby.
In a past missing persons case, in spite of police being informed by a witness that the perp had buried body parts, when LE searched, they neglected to dig and found nothing. When the family found out, they had to trespass on the property (which was owned by the perp) to search again because the judge would not give another search warrant. Family & friends took shovels and a bloodhound, found what was necessary to identify the victim and the perp was convicted.

The body was buried next to the cabin. Sometimes perps think their own property is the safest place to dispose of evidence because they can limit access.

DS Sr owns property with lots of cover not too far from his home. I would like to see it searched.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by artzypantz View Post
does anyone have any birth data on michelle? i know the astrology forum is closed, but i would like to have a friend do an event chart on last known / seen time and place.

I would need the address of ds2 condo for lat / long coordinates and birth data for michelle.

thanks
Michelle DOB 01/20/1978


DSjr address

Carter Glen Condominium Phase 2

6598 S Goldenrod Rd Unit C
Orlando, FL 32822-8717


The video shows her coming in the condos Nov 17, at 3:18 pm
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  #429  
Old 12-22-2011, 09:24 PM
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We have all been speculating...

Dale...or anyone who is a family member that supports him...Please speak up. I am not interested in picking you apart. I just want to hear from someone that is close to Dale.

As an aside: I think he is guilty. Nothing he has done has lead me to believe he is not. I just want to hear from someone that knows him. JMHO.
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  #430  
Old 12-22-2011, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LittleBitty35 View Post
We have all been speculating...

Dale...or anyone who is a family member that supports him...Please speak up. I am not interested in picking you apart. I just want to hear from someone that is close to Dale.

As an aside: I think he is guilty. Nothing he has done has lead me to believe he is not. I just want to hear from someone that knows him. JMHO.
Me too. It is so telling to me that before he was named a suspect, there isn't one known word of sympathy or concern (at least, not that seemed sincere) coming from him or his kin. The only thing I recall is a kind of self-serving post about the police coming to search his house, he seemed more concerned about himself. He wasn't named a suspect right away-I guess I can see "clamming up" afterward, but what about before? His kids' mom is gone and his side of the family goes mute?
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:12 PM
EINYROO EINYROO is offline
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Originally Posted by LittleBitty35 View Post
We have all been speculating...

Dale...or anyone who is a family member that supports him...Please speak up. I am not interested in picking you apart. I just want to hear from someone that is close to Dale.

As an aside: I think he is guilty. Nothing he has done has lead me to believe he is not. I just want to hear from someone that knows him. JMHO.
The silence is deafening.

And, the lack of people donating and willing to "like" his page speak volumes.

I hope something happens in this case soon and Michelle comes home...
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  #432  
Old 12-22-2011, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
Michelle DOB 01/20/1978


DSjr address

Carter Glen Condominium Phase 2

6598 S Goldenrod Rd Unit C
Orlando, FL 32822-8717


The video shows her coming in the condos Nov 17, at 3:18 pm
Thanks sparky!

Im sure it hasn't been said what time she was reported missing to LE, correct?
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:30 PM
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The silence is deafening.

And, the lack of people donating and willing to "like" his page speak volumes.

I hope something happens in this case soon and Michelle comes home...
Ever see the movie "Copy Cat" ...here kitty kitty...
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  #434  
Old 12-22-2011, 10:34 PM
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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7405041&postcount=301

From Einyroo's comment on the 7th thread:

"I also forgot to mention that the investigator was also interested in where Dale used to live. When I knew him it was in an apartment complex of some sort. I told her I thought it was right around where the car was found...I was only there several times at night and never drove myself...but I do remember the millenia mall being really close by and I thought it was off of Conroy.

I thought it was really interesting because my back and forth with the investigator made it pretty apparent they were looking at Dale very closely (kind of stating the obvious, I know). But she said that the LE knew he lived somewhere around where the car was found previously, but they were trying to pinpoint if it was around Kirkman or Conroy. I found this interesting because clearly they didn't want him to think they were looking at him, or else wouldn't they have just asked him straight up? "
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  #435  
Old 12-22-2011, 10:43 PM
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Sorry, I should have said that I bolded he sentence for emphasis (there's an abreviatin for tht but I don't know what it is), and I brought this up because that is such an interesting fact.

Everything about this case seems to be happening in DS Jr's neck of the woods.
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  #436  
Old 12-23-2011, 12:55 AM
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Digging time depends on the soil, strength and stamina of the digger and how deep you go.

Cadaver dogs would be able to pick up a scent through the spaces in the joints.
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:04 AM
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dogs, searching, graves

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Couple of questions. How long does it typically take to dig a grave? If Dale built her a coffin (cabinet maker and all) wonder if dogs would pick up her scent.
How long it takes to dig a grave depends on the soil, the strength & stamina of the digger and the depth of the grave.

Cadaver dogs could pick up her scent if she were still above ground--even in a home made casket. Our bloodhound found a corpse buried under about 1ft of earth. If I were searching an area, I would only count on a bloodhound; one from a tracking line doesn't even have to be trained but they are not often accepted by search & rescue organizations.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:15 AM
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Sorry, I should have said that I bolded he sentence for emphasis (there's an abreviatin for tht but I don't know what it is) and I brought this up because that is such an interesting fact.

Everything about this case seems to be happening in DS Jr's neck of the woods.
^above^ Bolded By Me.. It's BBM..

And I believe it's much more likely for Dale Jr to have known that area of where he abandoned the Hummer(Walden Circle) than for Michelle as some have rumored that she knew and was seen in that area.. I don't believe that's true as we've yet to hear anywhere in MSM that she was known to be in that area(Walden Circle) regularly..
Jmo, tho!
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  #439  
Old 12-23-2011, 08:16 AM
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^above^ Bolded By Me.. It's BBM..

And I believe it's much more likely for Dale Jr to have known that area of where he abandoned the Hummer(Walden Circle) than for Michelle as some have rumored that she knew and was seen in that area.. I don't believe that's true as we've yet to hear anywhere in MSM that she was known to be in that area(Walden Circle) regularly..
Jmo, tho!
The Walden Circle location bothers me because DS II told Michelle's family that she was "going shopping" when she left his condo. Why abandon the Hummer in that condo complex? Why not leave it at the mall or in another parking lot? There is a Kohl's and a Walmart in walking distance to his condo, so if the "going shopping" thing was some sort of deflection, then it makes no sense to dump the Hummer in a condo complex instead of a large parking lot in a shopping area. It certainly wasn't a convenience to leave the Hummer there.

If he came up with that after he dumped the Hummer, then why not say, "Well, she said she was going to stop at a friends house"? He had her iphone at that point, so he would know what was on her calendar and all of the contacts that she had in the phone, so why not use that information to establish a better story?

I also find it weird that Michelle's disappearance seems to straddle the line of a rage killing and a well planned abduction/murder. If it was strictly a rage killing, then I feel that there would be a lot of forensic and circumstantial evidence available. DS II has a bad temper. He throws and breaks things when he is angry. Did the police find anything of that nature in his condo?

If it was well planned, then I can't see DS II as the perpetrator because I just don't believe that he is dumb enough to plan it the way it happened. Maybe he had thoughts about how to cover up a crime of this nature and so he had a working plan established for what he would do if he lost it and went too far, but a guy like DS II likes to brag and talk. So, did he ever say something to his friends about where he would hide a body?

And, if he was on FB that night talking about the PC episode, what time was that and where was he? If he was on a mobile device, then records would show that. The police have his computers, so what evidence has been compiled from the seizure of his computers. If they took his computers, how is he going online? Borrowing a friends? Did he purchase another one? Or, is he using his smartphone?

Not that any of the above changes the fact that he is the most likely suspect, but I believe that trying to understand his thought process is the key to finding Michelle. Every morning I wake up hoping that Michelle is found and that her family gets the answers that they need.
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  #440  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:07 AM
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How long it takes to dig a grave depends on the soil, the strength & stamina of the digger and the depth of the grave.

Cadaver dogs could pick up her scent if she were still above ground--even in a home made casket. Our bloodhound found a corpse buried under about 1ft of earth. If I were searching an area, I would only count on a bloodhound; one from a tracking line doesn't even have to be trained but they are not often accepted by search & rescue organizations.
Just a little OT aside here: dogs are such fantastic creatures! They're valuable to us humans in so many ways...
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  #441  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lark2 View Post
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...&postcount=301

From Einyroo's comment on the 7th thread:

"I also forgot to mention that the investigator was also interested in where Dale used to live. When I knew him it was in an apartment complex of some sort. I told her I thought it was right around where the car was found...I was only there several times at night and never drove myself...but I do remember the millenia mall being really close by and I thought it was off of Conroy.

I thought it was really interesting because my back and forth with the investigator made it pretty apparent they were looking at Dale very closely (kind of stating the obvious, I know). But she said that the LE knew he lived somewhere around where the car was found previously, but they were trying to pinpoint if it was around Kirkman or Conroy. I found this interesting because clearly they didn't want him to think they were looking at him, or else wouldn't they have just asked him straight up? "
I got some flack for posting that...people not believing that a detective would give that kind of info, etc etc...But, I really think it was to confirm if I knew what they already knew.

Everything does seem to be in Dale's territory...from the last ping being near Jesse Black's to everything else.

Someone said it best on here...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, sometimes it's actually A DUCK!!!
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  #442  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:18 AM
EINYROO EINYROO is offline
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Originally Posted by Analyze This View Post
The Walden Circle location bothers me because DS II told Michelle's family that she was "going shopping" when she left his condo. Why abandon the Hummer in that condo complex? Why not leave it at the mall or in another parking lot? There is a Kohl's and a Walmart in walking distance to his condo, so if the "going shopping" thing was some sort of deflection, then it makes no sense to dump the Hummer in a condo complex instead of a large parking lot in a shopping area. It certainly wasn't a convenience to leave the Hummer there.

If he came up with that after he dumped the Hummer, then why not say, "Well, she said she was going to stop at a friends house"? He had her iphone at that point, so he would know what was on her calendar and all of the contacts that she had in the phone, so why not use that information to establish a better story?

I also find it weird that Michelle's disappearance seems to straddle the line of a rage killing and a well planned abduction/murder. If it was strictly a rage killing, then I feel that there would be a lot of forensic and circumstantial evidence available. DS II has a bad temper. He throws and breaks things when he is angry. Did the police find anything of that nature in his condo?

If it was well planned, then I can't see DS II as the perpetrator because I just don't believe that he is dumb enough to plan it the way it happened. Maybe he had thoughts about how to cover up a crime of this nature and so he had a working plan established for what he would do if he lost it and went too far, but a guy like DS II likes to brag and talk. So, did he ever say something to his friends about where he would hide a body?

And, if he was on FB that night talking about the PC episode, what time was that and where was he? If he was on a mobile device, then records would show that. The police have his computers, so what evidence has been compiled from the seizure of his computers. If they took his computers, how is he going online? Borrowing a friends? Did he purchase another one? Or, is he using his smartphone?

Not that any of the above changes the fact that he is the most likely suspect, but I believe that trying to understand his thought process is the key to finding Michelle. Every morning I wake up hoping that Michelle is found and that her family gets the answers that they need.


BBM

You couldn't have said it better. I think that's EXACTLY what happened.
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:24 AM
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Thanks sparky!

Im sure it hasn't been said what time she was reported missing to LE, correct?
m's sister called LE to report m missing at 7:20pm 11/17- according to the timeline.
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Analyze This View Post
The Walden Circle location bothers me because DS II told Michelle's family that she was "going shopping" when she left his condo. Why abandon the Hummer in that condo complex? Why not leave it at the mall or in another parking lot? There is a Kohl's and a Walmart in walking distance to his condo, so if the "going shopping" thing was some sort of deflection, then it makes no sense to dump the Hummer in a condo complex instead of a large parking lot in a shopping area. It certainly wasn't a convenience to leave the Hummer there.

If he came up with that after he dumped the Hummer, then why not say, "Well, she said she was going to stop at a friends house"? He had her iphone at that point, so he would know what was on her calendar and all of the contacts that she had in the phone, so why not use that information to establish a better story?

I also find it weird that Michelle's disappearance seems to straddle the line of a rage killing and a well planned abduction/murder. If it was strictly a rage killing, then I feel that there would be a lot of forensic and circumstantial evidence available. DS II has a bad temper. He throws and breaks things when he is angry. Did the police find anything of that nature in his condo?

If it was well planned, then I can't see DS II as the perpetrator because I just don't believe that he is dumb enough to plan it the way it happened. Maybe he had thoughts about how to cover up a crime of this nature and so he had a working plan established for what he would do if he lost it and went too far, but a guy like DS II likes to brag and talk. So, did he ever say something to his friends about where he would hide a body?

And, if he was on FB that night talking about the PC episode, what time was that and where was he? If he was on a mobile device, then records would show that. The police have his computers, so what evidence has been compiled from the seizure of his computers. If they took his computers, how is he going online? Borrowing a friends? Did he purchase another one? Or, is he using his smartphone?

Not that any of the above changes the fact that he is the most likely suspect, but I believe that trying to understand his thought process is the key to finding Michelle. Every morning I wake up hoping that Michelle is found and that her family gets the answers that they need.
Those are some good questions you pose.

The notion that Dale actually planned this has never seemed quite right to me. Even if he is not an exceptionally bright person--although we have no indication of his actual intelligence--he could hardly choose a worse time to carry out a murder. And then so many of the details that we actually know seem to point back to him as the culprit. He could hardly have made himself a more obvious suspect!

I realize that there are examples of other planned murders where the murderer was positively bumbling. But the idea of planning to carry out the murder of your ex-girlfriend on the very afternoon that a TV program airs nationally and demonstrates the contentious nature of your relationship, plus offers clear indications that you have a violent, vindictive temperament seems beyond bone-headed!

I'm not at all suggesting that he didn't do the thing, I'm just questioning the planning aspect.

I can, however, see him considering in the past what he might do to get rid of a body, hypothetically, and talking about it with friends. I remember that someone in one of these threads said she had herself considered the best way of disposing of remains, not that she would ever want to carry out a murder. (Was it you, LittleBitty?) A person need not be a criminal or violent to consider such a thing.

It would indeed be interesting if someone had heard him talk about it, and would offer the information to LE. There's certainly a chance that this could happen. Unless his friends are extremely loyal.
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  #445  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Analyze This View Post
The Walden Circle location bothers me because DS II told Michelle's family that she was "going shopping" when she left his condo. Why abandon the Hummer in that condo complex? Why not leave it at the mall or in another parking lot? There is a Kohl's and a Walmart in walking distance to his condo, so if the "going shopping" thing was some sort of deflection, then it makes no sense to dump the Hummer in a condo complex instead of a large parking lot in a shopping area. It certainly wasn't a convenience to leave the Hummer there.

If he came up with that after he dumped the Hummer, then why not say, "Well, she said she was going to stop at a friends house"? He had her iphone at that point, so he would know what was on her calendar and all of the contacts that she had in the phone, so why not use that information to establish a better story?

I also find it weird that Michelle's disappearance seems to straddle the line of a rage killing and a well planned abduction/murder. If it was strictly a rage killing, then I feel that there would be a lot of forensic and circumstantial evidence available. DS II has a bad temper. He throws and breaks things when he is angry. Did the police find anything of that nature in his condo?

If it was well planned, then I can't see DS II as the perpetrator because I just don't believe that he is dumb enough to plan it the way it happened. Maybe he had thoughts about how to cover up a crime of this nature and so he had a working plan established for what he would do if he lost it and went too far, but a guy like DS II likes to brag and talk. So, did he ever say something to his friends about where he would hide a body?

And, if he was on FB that night talking about the PC episode, what time was that and where was he? If he was on a mobile device, then records would show that. The police have his computers, so what evidence has been compiled from the seizure of his computers. If they took his computers, how is he going online? Borrowing a friends? Did he purchase another one? Or, is he using his smartphone?

Not that any of the above changes the fact that he is the most likely suspect, but I believe that trying to understand his thought process is the key to finding Michelle. Every morning I wake up hoping that Michelle is found and that her family gets the answers that they need.
I agree, I don't think this was well-planned at all--if it was even planned. DS Jr. is a guy who acts on spur-of-the-moment, out-of-control emotions, as he did in other crimes he has committed (at least the ones we KNOW about): the chair-over-the-head assault at a party; dragging his wife Shannon to a metal balcony and hitting her head against it, causing head injuries and hospitalization; kicking the head of a victim in the aggravated battery case on the night of the murder of BT.

Interesting, now that I look at it, all of the injuries his victims endured were head injuries ... wonder if that's what happened here in MP's case.

May Michelle be found today ...
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:02 AM
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I agree, I don't think this was well-planned at all--if it was even planned. DS Jr. is a guy who acts on spur-of-the-moment, out-of-control emotions, as he did in other crimes he has committed (at least the ones we KNOW about): the chair-over-the-head assault at a party; dragging his wife Shannon to a metal balcony and hitting her head against it, causing head injuries and hospitalization; kicking the head of a victim in the aggravated battery case on the night of the murder of BT.

Interesting, now that I look at it, all of the injuries his victims endured were head injuries ... wonder if that's what happened here in MP's case.

May Michelle be found today ...
It's exactly that "spur-of-the-moment" behaviour that makes me believe that if something happened and he reacted quickly, out of panic, that he would not have been driving around with a body in a vehicle for any length of time. When I look at the satellite maps of that wooded area behind his condo complex, off Lee Vista Blvd, I have to wonder how extensively it has been searched. He can access it through his own subdivision...his own street. No need to even drive out of the street with a body. And it's a pretty large, dense area. If they haven't already, TES would be the perfect organization to search it. But they are in with MN and DS2 and you can bet that they aren't going to ask anyone to search the wooded area right near DS2's home.

Or, as was said in the post above, he's thought about a perfect place to hide a body in the past. He might have followed the CA case and thought how stupid KC was to hide the body so close to home. Started thinking of better alternatives she could have utilized while following the trial and applied them to his own situation when he found himself in need of such a place.

MOO
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:56 AM
EINYROO EINYROO is offline
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I agree, I don't think this was well-planned at all--if it was even planned. DS Jr. is a guy who acts on spur-of-the-moment, out-of-control emotions, as he did in other crimes he has committed (at least the ones we KNOW about): the chair-over-the-head assault at a party; dragging his wife Shannon to a metal balcony and hitting her head against it, causing head injuries and hospitalization; kicking the head of a victim in the aggravated battery case on the night of the murder of BT.

Interesting, now that I look at it, all of the injuries his victims endured were head injuries ... wonder if that's what happened here in MP's case.

May Michelle be found today ...
While Dale unquestionably has range/anger issues...I think there is also an extent to which he is a sociopath. To be involved in all of these horrible scenarios that you described takes more than just an inability to control your emotions. Clearly, there is an element to him that is not normal. Someone on here mentioned that Dale was the leader of the gang that targeted a specific young man. This takes some kind of pre-meditative action. I think in his head, unspoken, he likely had thoughts of hurting/killing Michelle for some time. I truly believe he had probably considered how he would do it and what he would do thereafter, but not when or even if he would actually do it...The PC show through him over the edge and he harmed her. And then, carried out what he had already pre-meditated. JMO. But, I think it's really plausible.
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamille;7459533[B
]It's exactly that "spur-of-the-moment" behaviour that makes me believe that if something happened and he reacted quickly, out of panic, that he would not have been driving around with a body in a vehicle for any length of time. [/b] When I look at the satellite maps of that wooded area behind his condo complex, off Lee Vista Blvd, I have to wonder how extensively it has been searched. He can access it through his own subdivision...his own street. No need to even drive out of the street with a body. And it's a pretty large, dense area. If they haven't already, TES would be the perfect organization to search it. But they are in with MN and DS2 and you can bet that they aren't going to ask anyone to search the wooded area right near DS2's home.

Or, as was said in the post above, he's thought about a perfect place to hide a body in the past. He might have followed the CA case and thought how stupid KC was to hide the body so close to home. Started thinking of better alternatives she could have utilized while following the trial and applied them to his own situation when he found himself in need of such a place.

MOO
That area behind his condo runs very wide and deep. I know that LE took a rather cursory look at it early on, and I'm hoping they went back to check it out in depth. I feel very strongly that that is the most likely place he would put her body. Close to home, convenient, yet difficult to search. Dust off hands, dust off shoes, done.

I want MP located sooo much. I hope it will happen today.
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  #449  
Old 12-23-2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by EINYROO View Post
While Dale unquestionably has range/anger issues...I think there is also an extent to which he is a sociopath. To be involved in all of these horrible scenarios that you described takes more than just an inability to control your emotions.
Here are some of those horrible scenarios from the actual court docs (originally posted on Huffington Post).

Wife #2's statement says that DS told her he wanted to kill himself that night because people were making fun of him at the bar about upcoming divorce. But instead of doing that, he apparently took it out on her.

MOO, this guy has a very fragile self-image and any hint of someone mocking him, challenging him or rejecting him can shatter it.
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  #450  
Old 12-23-2011, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Analyze This View Post
The Walden Circle location bothers me because DS II told Michelle's family that she was "going shopping" when she left his condo. Why abandon the Hummer in that condo complex? Why not leave it at the mall or in another parking lot? There is a Kohl's and a Walmart in walking distance to his condo, so if the "going shopping" thing was some sort of deflection, then it makes no sense to dump the Hummer in a condo complex instead of a large parking lot in a shopping area. It certainly wasn't a convenience to leave the Hummer there.

If he came up with that after he dumped the Hummer, then why not say, "Well, she said she was going to stop at a friends house"? He had her iphone at that point, so he would know what was on her calendar and all of the contacts that she had in the phone, so why not use that information to establish a better story?

I also find it weird that Michelle's disappearance seems to straddle the line of a rage killing and a well planned abduction/murder. If it was strictly a rage killing, then I feel that there would be a lot of forensic and circumstantial evidence available. DS II has a bad temper. He throws and breaks things when he is angry. Did the police find anything of that nature in his condo?

If it was well planned, then I can't see DS II as the perpetrator because I just don't believe that he is dumb enough to plan it the way it happened. Maybe he had thoughts about how to cover up a crime of this nature and so he had a working plan established for what he would do if he lost it and went too far, but a guy like DS II likes to brag and talk. So, did he ever say something to his friends about where he would hide a body?

And, if he was on FB that night talking about the PC episode, what time was that and where was he? If he was on a mobile device, then records would show that. The police have his computers, so what evidence has been compiled from the seizure of his computers. If they took his computers, how is he going online? Borrowing a friends? Did he purchase another one? Or, is he using his smartphone?

Not that any of the above changes the fact that he is the most likely suspect, but I believe that trying to understand his thought process is the key to finding Michelle. Every morning I wake up hoping that Michelle is found and that her family gets the answers that they need.
Dumping the car at WalMart or Kohl ... my fear is that you might get caught on camera...but then again the condo he parked at....does it have security cameras?
Wasnt the parking of the hummer in an area that make the witness think he wasnt visiting a condo there?
It is strange no one saw anything at his condo(his leaving etc)...or this condo?
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