CT - Five die in Stamford Christmas Day fire 2011.12.25

[lucky181]

Madonna Badger was hospitalized after attempting suicide.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...XQ4jemqpPr1a9L

[DairyGirl]

Originally Posted by lucky181

Madonna Badger was hospitalized after attempting suicide.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...XQ4jemqpPr1a9L

So, so sad. I can't say I don't understand her feelings. I don't think I would want to live, either. It will take a lot of strength for her to get through this. She should never have been left alone at this time. She is going to need so much support. My prayers are with her.

[Blondie in Spokane]

From lucky's link....

"The station also reported that police are investigating whether smoke detectors and fire extinguishers were removed from the home prior to the fire."

"Police refused to comment, but construction workers allegedly told investigators that the alarms and extinguishers were removed and stored in the garage when painters began working on the house."

"As the Post previously reported, employees of a contractor are being grilled over the renovation work done at the house as part of an ongoing criminal probe."

"Stamford Police Capt. Richard Conklin said his investigators have talked to several people involved in the work being done on the $1.7 million Stamford home."

"Badger’s beau, Michael Borcina, was overseeing the project."



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...#ixzz1kYuId7nI

[Blondie in Spokane]

Questions hang over presence of smoke alarms in deadly Christmas blaze that killed three girls and their grandparents in renovated $1.7million home

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1kZA84NCH

"Police say smoke detectors and fire extinguishers may have been removed from the Connecticut home where a deadly fire erupted on Christmas Day, killing three young girls and their grandparents."

"Seven-year-old twins Grace and Sarah Badger, nine-year-old Lily Badger and their mother's parents Lomer and Pauline Johnson died in the Stamford home destroyed by blistering fire."

"New reports suggest smoke alarms were in place before the fire, but were removed as part of a renovation process on the $1.7 million Victorian."

"Construction workers, overseen by their mother's boyfriend, contractor contractor Michael Borcina, are being investigated for possible criminal charges."

[Blondie in Spokane]

From my link above:

"The network also reports that Matthew Badger, the girls father and Mrs Badger's estranged husband, has hired a private investigation firm to look into the fire."

"Police have officially ruled out any foul play in the investigation into the Badger home fire, but are now looking to see if there are any accidental criminal charges that will be filed. Specifically, charges of criminally negligent homicide or reckless manslaughter are both possible charges in a case like this."

"Stamford police say they hope to wrap up their investigation in the next two weeks."

"At the time of the fire, the mansion was still under construction, and though it did have a fire alarm system in place, it is reported it was not installed and working at the time."

"Mr Borcina’s company, Tiberias Construction, has been heavily scrutinized during the investigation as well, and it was discovered that several required forms were missing."

The house did not have a new certificate of occupancy since the Badgers moved in, and MrBorcina’s contracting licenses had expired at the time of the fire. His contractor registration for work in the state of Connecticut expired in 2000, and his home improvement license for the state of New York expired in June 2010."




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1kZBhXX4T

[Reader]

Originally Posted by Blondie in Spokane

From my link above:

"The network also reports that Matthew Badger, the girls father and Mrs Badger's estranged husband, has hired a private investigation firm to look into the fire."

"Police have officially ruled out any foul play in the investigation into the Badger home fire, but are now looking to see if there are any accidental criminal charges that will be filed. Specifically, charges of criminally negligent homicide or reckless manslaughter are both possible charges in a case like this."

"Stamford police say they hope to wrap up their investigation in the next two weeks."

"At the time of the fire, the mansion was still under construction, and though it did have a fire alarm system in place, it is reported it was not installed and working at the time."

"Mr Borcina’s company, Tiberias Construction, has been heavily scrutinized during the investigation as well, and it was discovered that several required forms were missing."

The house did not have a new certificate of occupancy since the Badgers moved in, and MrBorcina’s contracting licenses had expired at the time of the fire. His contractor registration for work in the state of Connecticut expired in 2000, and his home improvement license for the state of New York expired in June 2010."




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1kZBhXX4T

Good! now we're getting somewhere...

[my_tee_mouse]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...tempts-suicide

"Report: Mom who lost 3 daughters in fire attempts suicide"

It will be a rare occasion in my life when I say this, but it would seem to be more merciful to let her end her suffering. I know that in her circumstances I would not want to live either.

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by my_tee_mouse

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...tempts-suicide

"Report: Mom who lost 3 daughters in fire attempts suicide"

It will be a rare occasion in my life when I say this, but it would seem to be more merciful to let her end her suffering. I know that in her circumstances I would not want to live either.

I couldn't disagree more. One can only look at Dr. Petit as an example how somebody can overcome extremely tragic circumstances.

[jilly]

Originally Posted by jjenny

I couldn't disagree more. One can only look at Dr. Petit as an example how somebody can overcome extremely tragic circumstances.

Dr Petit considered suicide in the beginning. He was fortunate to have strong family support.

[my_tee_mouse]

Originally Posted by jjenny

I couldn't disagree more. One can only look at Dr. Petit as an example how somebody can overcome extremely tragic circumstances.

I imagine part of Dr. Petit's will came from the desire to see the perpetrators punished. In this case the "perpetrator" was a loved one. This lady lost her parents, her children, and in essence her lover in one fell swoop. And I imagine there is a great deal of self-blame going on as well.

[Inspector Gidget]

Originally Posted by my_tee_mouse

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...tempts-suicide

"Report: Mom who lost 3 daughters in fire attempts suicide"

It will be a rare occasion in my life when I say this, but it would seem to be more merciful to let her end her suffering. I know that in her circumstances I would not want to live either.

I can't begin to imagine having to go through this,losing it all in one day.This is just too much for anyone to come to grips with and I would have to check myself into the psych ward.Because I would be inconsolable and downright crazy.She will need meds and therapy for a long time to get through was has happened.I hope she gets professional help,friends can only do so much.

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by my_tee_mouse

I imagine part of Dr. Petit's will came from the desire to see the perpetrators punished. In this case the "perpetrator" was a loved one. This lady lost her parents, her children, and in essence her lover in one fell swoop. And I imagine there is a great deal of self-blame going on as well.

Are we seriously going to advocate suicide?
Really?

[Trident]

Originally Posted by jjenny

Are we seriously going to advocate suicide?
Really?

I don't see anyone advocating suicide, but I do see people empathizing with a woman who has lost everything important in her life.

Understanding why one might want to die is not the same as standing beneath a building screaming, "jump, jump,", to someone on a ledge. To me it is simply understanding why one might not wish to live and allowing the sufferer to have/act on her own legitimate feelings.

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by Trident

I don't see anyone advocating suicide, but I do see people empathizing with a woman who has lost everything important in her life.

Understanding why one might want to die is not the same as standing beneath a building screaming, "jump, jump,", to someone on a ledge. To me it is simply understanding why one might not wish to live and allowing the sufferer to have/act on her own legitimate feelings.

Oh I see. So she should be allowed to be alone in the room with a rope, considering we should allow her to act on her own legitimate feelings?

[HMSHood]

Originally Posted by my_tee_mouse

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...tempts-suicide

"Report: Mom who lost 3 daughters in fire attempts suicide"

It will be a rare occasion in my life when I say this, but it would seem to be more merciful to let her end her suffering. I know that in her circumstances I would not want to live either.

Don't take this that I am advocating suicide. I am not surprised that this happened since Madonna Badger lost three of her daughters and parents. She likely has survivor's guilt. It has to be worst thing to go through, especially losing a child. They parents grieving the loss of their child is the worst form of grief. As for losing parents, as sad as it is, it is a rite of passage for many.

[my_tee_mouse]

Originally Posted by jjenny

Are we seriously going to advocate suicide?
Really?

My mother committed suicide, so I don't think we can say I am "advocating" suicide, but since you asked: I am saying that sometimes we as a culture force ourselves into the lives of others and make them do what we would have them do...in this case live when the rest of her family has died. Do we really have the right to do that?

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by my_tee_mouse

My mother committed suicide, so I don't think we can say I am "advocating" suicide, but since you asked: I am saying that sometimes we as a culture force ourselves into the lives of others and make them do what we would have them do...in this case live when the rest of her family has died. Do we really have the right to do that?

And if we do that, we do it for a reason. With appropriate treatment for depression a person can change their mind. Frankly if a person really wants to kill themselves they probably will. Attempted suicide is a cry for help-this person wants help.

[my_tee_mouse]

Originally Posted by jjenny

And if we do that, we do it for a reason. With appropriate treatment for depression a person can change their mind. Frankly if a person really wants to kill themselves they probably will. Attempted suicide is a cry for help-this person wants help.

I'm a social worker in the mental health field, and I agree with what you are saying...for most cases. But I am also throwing out there for the sake of discussion that we give people the choice to terminate pregnancies and to die with dignity when they are physically ill, but we think we have the right to force someone to go on living in a (thankfully rare) case like the one being discussed.

A suicide attempt is not always a cry for help. Sometimes it is what it is...a person is tired of living with utter pain and wishes to move on. We allow terminally ill patients this courtesy. We used to force them to live out their last days in pain, with hoses and needles and bedpans being the hallmarks of their last moments. Now we accept their right to die with dignity, and DNRs and living wills are accepted. Why do we think we have the right to "save" someone in a situation like this woman? Can we begin to imagine the agony she is feeling? Ah, but she's not terminally ill, we say. Ah, but in her mind and in her heart, she may well be. We cannot guarantee she will ever feel one ounce better than she does now. Who are we to say that this woman will ever have a single "better day?" Medication and therapy do not always work. Self-medication can lead to even more misery.

I'm not talking about the teenage boy whose girlfriend breaks up with him and who thinks there will never be a better day. I am talking complete and total guilt and pain...pain no doubt every bit as unbearable as terminal cancer...the kind of pain this woman must be feeling.

I've survived the death of one child, and it was the hardest thing I've every had to go through. I dragged on for the sake of my surviving child. Now I have three grandchildren so if, God forbid, something happened to my son I'd drag on for the grandkids. But if something happened to all of them...whoosh...they were gone in an instant...you'd better believe I'd want to follow them. There would be no pills, no therapists, no Biblical passages that would take that pain away.

Which brings me back to my original musing of whether it would be more merciful to "let" someone go be where they want to be rather than force them to live a life of hell on earth.

[Blondie in Spokane]

Stamford Fire Probe To Continue To Mid-February

"The investigation into a Christmas fire that killed five family members will not wrap up this week as expected, a police official said."

"We're a week and a half out," Capt. Richard Conklin said Thursday."

"Among other things, investigators are looking into reports that battery-operated smoke detectors had been removed from the Shippan Avenue house before the fire that killed the daughters and parents of ad executive Madonna Badger. Her boyfriend, Michael Borcina, had been doing work on the house and was in the process of wiring smoke detectors and fire alarms, a fire official said last month."

"Improper disposal of ashes from the fireplace is believed to have sparked the fire. Fire officials said Borcina removed the embers, put them in a bag and placed the bag in a mud room in back of the house. The flames traveled quickly through the old, Victorian home, which lacked fire stops."

I have no idea what a fire stop is.....will have to google it....

http://articles.courant.com/2012-02-...nd-fire-alarms

[jjenny]

wikipedia has a section on fire stops. its a passive fire protection system used to seal openings. Basically something that can slow the spread of the fire.
Sounds like quite a bit of carelessness went on in that house-why remove battery operated fire alarms, if those reports are correct? Why remove ashes and place them apparently in the bag? Santa just doesn't sound like a good enough reason. If you are that concerned about Santa being hurt by smoldering ashes, shouldn't you actually be concerned about house going up in flames instead?

[panthera]

Originally Posted by Inspector Gidget

I can't begin to imagine having to go through this,losing it all in one day.This is just too much for anyone to come to grips with and I would have to check myself into the psych ward.Because I would be inconsolable and downright crazy.She will need meds and therapy for a long time to get through was has happened.I hope she gets professional help,friends can only do so much.

Christmas will never be the same either, no matter how long she lives. Instead of a joyous occasion it will be a haunting reminder of this tragedy. My heart goes out to her and hopefully she will find the faith and strength to get through each day, and each year.

[Reader]

Originally Posted by panthera

Christmas will never be the same either, no matter how long she lives. Instead of a joyous occasion it will be a haunting reminder of this tragedy. My heart goes out to her and hopefully she will find the faith and strength to get through each day, and each year.

The same goes for the children's father...the anguish and grief on his face at the memorial was heartbreaking.

[panthera]

Originally Posted by Reader

The same goes for the children's father...the anguish and grief on his face at the memorial was heartbreaking.

Absolutely. The one difference, of course, is that he wasn't there in the house when it happened. It could be a different type of anguish for him, in that he was powerless to do anything to help them, instead of being perhaps partially responsible for the event.



MOO

[elfie]

This news is a little older, but I didn't see it posted here:

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/fairfie...-in-demolition

Stamford, Conn. (WTNH) - Questions are being raised about the destruction of the house in Stamford where three children and their grandparents were killed in a Christmas Day fire.

According to a published report, the police were not consulted before the mansion was demolished and that could hinder their investigation.

It does seem that the home was razed awfully quickly. Glad that the investigation continues. I wonder if they are sifting through the ruins at all.

[Blondie in Spokane]

Madonna Badger’s Ex Husband Suing Over The Death Of His Three Daughters

http://www.hollywoodlife.com/2012/02...-fire-lawsuit/
"
Matthew filed papers in Stamford Probate Court recently, but his lawyer Richard Emery says Matthew “has no intention of suing his ex-wife.” But Richard is criticizing Madonna’s boyfriend, Michael Borcina, who was the contractor on the renovations at the home."

The $1.7 million home didn’t have working smoke detectors at the time of the fire, and Michael is the one who put still-smoldering ashes from the fireplace into a trash enclosure. The house also didn’t have a certificate of occupancy, and the last city inspection was early last summer."

“The fact is that Borcina was the contractor on the job,” says Richard. “He was aware of the dangers, or should have been aware of dangers, that a civilian would have been unaware of. The fact that kids were living in this house was unbelievable… I don’t hold Madonna Badger responsible for that at all because I can’t imagine she would have understood the immediacy of the dangers.”