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  #51  
Old 01-16-2012, 11:18 AM
otto otto is offline
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Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
And even in this letter you will notice that he's not taking responsibility for the fact that he had this cell phone (and whatever else he had) when he wasn't supposed to but rather blaming her for outing him with it. And trying to make her feed sorry for him because of the hurtful things she did to him. So because of that he's keeping her money?

And he's telling her that Jiminez did a good job and that it was the best decision because he will appeal and failing that with the "good behaviour" time in Peru prisons, he'll be out in no time. And of course telling her that he loves her a few more times, while stealing her money to pay his restitution, should manipulate her enough to keep her in line right? She's probably already planning what they'll do together when he gets out in a few short years.

I know she's crazy and she probably deserves it but it appears that he's still up to his old tricks.

MOO
I also read somewhere that the fine had to be paid before he could do his rehab of work and education - which is how the sentence is reduced to 1/3. It seems that Joran had it all worked out financially ... knowing exactly how much money he needed to have his sentence reduced ... but at the same time, he convinced this woman that he needed the money for a different reason.

After he swindled her and she asked that the money be returned (money that she thought was for bail), he falls back on his manipulations and tries to make her feel guilty for revealing information about their communication. He seems to believe that if he can get away with something, the more power to him. I think he justifies taking advantage of others by finding or creating reasons to view others as having wronged him.

Mary should realize that any money she gave to Joran is long gone and she'll never see it again. She should have seen that coming. She shows very poor judgment in terms of appearing to believe that she could change a sociopath's nature.
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  #52  
Old 01-16-2012, 11:49 AM
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http://translate.google.com/translat...-joran&act=url

ORANGE CITY - The Public Prosecutor (OM) in Aruba plans to travel to Peru for Joran back to question about the evening in 2005 when Natalee Holloway disappeared.

"For now just let him stew in his," says Stein. The Advocate General thinks Joran, he is now a long imprisonment for the murder of Stephany Flores, may decide to be honest about what happened on that fateful night when Natalee vanished.

Yeah... NOW they want to look into what happened in 2005 but they're not in any hurry. Pfft! What a joke.
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  #53  
Old 01-16-2012, 12:07 PM
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I think most of us here ARE here, because it's difficult to imagine how someone can immunize themselves against the horrific pain and suffering they create to another human being during a murder.

It is almost impossible to understand they have NO emotion for others - much the same as killing a fly.

In Joran's case I was intrigued by the psychological evaulation in which he seems to have a closer relationship to his father than his mother, and at the same time devalues women.

I wonder if AVS is and was rather simplistic, naive, and enabling in failing to understand and stand up to Joran's proclivities to lying and violence as possibly psychopathic. He thus had little respect for her along with other women, considering them weak and easily manipulated.

His father, on the other hand, perhaps enabled him, but in a "manly" way -- setting up credit for him at the Casinos, and perhaps even being a chauvanist himself. Did he show a lack of respect for AVS? And, of course, one wonders what role, if any, PVS had in covering up Joran's responbilities for NH's death.

We always debate nature vs nuture, and in Joran's case, it seems there was, perhaps, a genetic origin fully "nutured" by totally indulgent parenting. It would be interesting if more of the family's early life was known - more than the superficial glances we have of them.
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  #54  
Old 01-16-2012, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
Typical narcissistic personality - it's always about what's been done to them. Natalee's disappearance harmed him - Stephany harmed him - Peru harmed him - Beth harmed him. Always the victim.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/

"Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which people have an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with themselves."
<snip>
"Symptoms

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may:

React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation

Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals


Have excessive feelings of self-importance

Exaggerate achievements and talents

Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love

Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment

Need constant attention and admiration

Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy


Have obsessive self-interest

Pursue mainly selfish goals"
___________
BEM: As it relates to this letter.

All the rest fits as well....
I think the red bold is the most striking from this. I love the video in which he shakes his head while being read his sentence.... oh, the unfairness when he admitted to murder, yet still has to face a relatively short sentence. It was just a human life, wah... etc.
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  #55  
Old 01-16-2012, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by otto View Post
V.d.Sloot is facing federal, not Alabama, fraud charges. Why would it be heard in Alabama ... in Beth's backyard. If these are ligitimate charges, they are filed in federal count and not subject to Alabama law ... therefore not heard there ... I think.
All states have Federal Courts, in some cases several. An Alabama Federal Court would be the proper jurisdiction.
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  #56  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JSR View Post
All states have Federal Courts, in some cases several. An Alabama Federal Court would be the proper jurisdiction.
yes, iirc, the indictment was brought by the U.S. Attorney with jurisdiction for an Alabama district.
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  #57  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
http://translate.google.com/translat...-joran&act=url

ORANGE CITY - The Public Prosecutor (OM) in Aruba plans to travel to Peru for Joran back to question about the evening in 2005 when Natalee Holloway disappeared.

"For now just let him stew in his," says Stein. The Advocate General thinks Joran, he is now a long imprisonment for the murder of Stephany Flores, may decide to be honest about what happened on that fateful night when Natalee vanished.

Yeah... NOW they want to look into what happened in 2005 but they're not in any hurry. Pfft! What a joke.
I think Joran is pathologically dishonest and incapable of truth. A long prison stint won't change the color of his feathers.

JMO
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  #58  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:18 PM
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A collage of pics using the emails between Mary Hamer, Joran and Jiminez.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...rynutz12-1.jpg

The case archive for both girls:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...lores%20-Peru/
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  #59  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:19 PM
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http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/01...-van-der-sloot

Opinion: 'True judgment day for van der Sloot'
By Jane Valez-Mitchell
Mon January 16, 2012

"But as the court kept reading, we finally saw the first crack in Joran’s tough guy demeanor. His normal arrogant, narcissistic attitude started to vanish before our eyes. Hearing every minute detail of his brutal and violent actions, there was no way for him to rationalize or minimize what he had done.

Suddenly, he needed to sit down. He was sweating profusely, right through his shirt. There was no more yawning. No more sleeping. He was beaten.

Today, Joran van der Sloot is a broken man.

He is facing 28 years in prison and I hope he serves every last day. Unfortunately that is not likely due to Peru’s extremely generous compensation for good behavior. Joran van der Sloot could be eligible for parole in 9 years. Let’s hope he spends the next decade coming to grips with what he has done."
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  #60  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by thelmadawg View Post
I think most of us here ARE here, because it's difficult to imagine how someone can immunize themselves against the horrific pain and suffering they create to another human being during a murder.

It is almost impossible to understand they have NO emotion for others - much the same as killing a fly.

In Joran's case I was intrigued by the psychological evaulation in which he seems to have a closer relationship to his father than his mother, and at the same time devalues women.

I wonder if AVS is and was rather simplistic, naive, and enabling in failing to understand and stand up to Joran's proclivities to lying and violence as possibly psychopathic. He thus had little respect for her along with other women, considering them weak and easily manipulated.

His father, on the other hand, perhaps enabled him, but in a "manly" way -- setting up credit for him at the Casinos, and perhaps even being a chauvanist himself. Did he show a lack of respect for AVS? And, of course, one wonders what role, if any, PVS had in covering up Joran's responbilities for NH's death.

We always debate nature vs nuture, and in Joran's case, it seems there was, perhaps, a genetic origin fully "nutured" by totally indulgent parenting. It would be interesting if more of the family's early life was known - more than the superficial glances we have of them.
I have no inside knowledge of the workings of the VDS family, but I think in most cases where a son shows contempt for his mother and/or women in general, he has learned it in some way from his father or other male role model. It may not be that his father physically abused the mother; it may just be a matter of showing contempt for her opinion, treating her like domestic help, etc. Mothers who are already victimized may set an even poorer example by being subservient in an understandable attempt to lessen the abuse.

This is just MOO, based on families I've seen.
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  #61  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadpole12 View Post
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/01...-van-der-sloot

Opinion: 'True judgment day for van der Sloot'
By Jane Valez-Mitchell
Mon January 16, 2012

"But as the court kept reading, we finally saw the first crack in Joran’s tough guy demeanor. His normal arrogant, narcissistic attitude started to vanish before our eyes. Hearing every minute detail of his brutal and violent actions, there was no way for him to rationalize or minimize what he had done.

Suddenly, he needed to sit down. He was sweating profusely, right through his shirt. There was no more yawning. No more sleeping. He was beaten.

Today, Joran van der Sloot is a broken man.

He is facing 28 years in prison and I hope he serves every last day. Unfortunately that is not likely due to Peru’s extremely generous compensation for good behavior. Joran van der Sloot could be eligible for parole in 9 years. Let’s hope he spends the next decade coming to grips with what he has done."
Thanks, Tadpole.

I don't believe for a moment that JVS is a broken man. If he is, it's only because he finally wasn't able to bargain and weasel his way out of his latest mess.

He will always rationalize and minimize what he's done. He will never take responsibility. And he will never come to grips with what he's done.

JMO
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  #62  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:38 PM
Tadpole12 Tadpole12 is offline
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Originally Posted by AmandaReckonwith View Post
A collage of pics using the emails between Mary Hamer, Joran and Jiminez.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...rynutz12-1.jpg
Heyya AR,

So AVS in still in the loop.

partial text,

...know that there are 3rd parties such as your...
...who are trying to break up my firendship wit...
...Mr. Jimenez. For example, Your mother...
...ed me severely & told me to move on. For th...
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  #63  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:41 PM
thelmadawg thelmadawg is offline
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
Thanks, Tadpole.

I don't believe for a moment that JVS is a broken man. If he is, it's only because he finally wasn't able to bargain and weasel his way out of his latest mess.

He will always rationalize and minimize what he's done. He will never take responsibility. And he will never come to grips with what he's done.

JMO
ITA! I think they mistake his demeanor. My belief is that he was near breaking point, because he was in a position of NO control. They accused him, demeaned him, sentenced him and he, for the first time, couldn't bully, lie, cheat or steal his way out of it. I actually was worried that he was going to break and lunge for somebody.
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  #64  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tadpole12 View Post
Heyya AR,

So AVS in still in the loop.

partial text,

...know that there are 3rd parties such as your...
...who are trying to break up my firendship wit...
...Mr. Jimenez. For example, Your mother...
...ed me severely & told me to move on. For th...


AVDS was never out of the loop. She'd been in the loop since day one, contrary to what she wanted people to believe right after JVDS' arrest.
People went through AVDS, she was always in contact with his attorneys, journalists like J van den Huevel, who got permission to interview JVDS from prison. In Cole Thompson's book, Portrait of a Monster, at the end it said that the authors reached out to JVDS' attorney and attempted to arrange a jailhouse interview. After conferring with his client, Maximo Altez said that JVDS' mother didn't think it was a good idea.

I will look for the articles but reportedly MH first contacted JVDS' American attorney, presumably that would be JT, who put her in touch with AVDS. AVDS and the Peru attorney gave MH permission to visit JVDS.

Now we see she's sending him messages on a phone he wasn't supposed to have and must have known that he was using a fake name on it.

JMHO

Last edited by annalia; 01-16-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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  #65  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:55 PM
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yes, iirc, the indictment was brought by the U.S. Attorney with jurisdiction for an Alabama district.
Yes, you remember correctly.

http://www.fbi.gov/birmingham/press-.../bh_060310.htm

The FBI Birmingham Division

U.S. Attorney’s Office Northern District of Alabama


BIRMINGHAM—Federal prosecutors in Birmingham have filed a criminal complaint against JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, a citizen of the Netherlands, on wire fraud and extortion charges in connection with his soliciting money in May on promises he would reveal the location of Natalee Holloway’s remains in Aruba and circumstances of her death, U.S. Attorney Joyce White Vance and FBI Special Agent in Charge Patrick Maley announced today.
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  #66  
Old 01-17-2012, 09:23 AM
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So no press conference by Stephany's father yesterday? I wonder what happened?
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  #67  
Old 01-17-2012, 10:16 AM
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So no press conference by Stephany's father yesterday? I wonder what happened?
The only thing I can think of is that he was satisfied that JVS was stripped of all his amenities and sent to another prison where he's being monitored (at least for the meantime).
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  #68  
Old 01-17-2012, 12:10 PM
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Looking at the video of him crying, he's so full of well u know...those are FAKE tears, like I can't get what i want so I'm going to cry, thats something my 2 year old does. He isn't sorry, he's sorry for getting caught, and if he didn't get caught this time, another 5 years on May 30, he would have done it again, in another country. Those poor girls Watching the video of them entering the hotel room, I think he drugged her, as well as Natalee. He knew exactly what he was doing, he knew he wanted to take her to his room and rob her, and possibly have sex with her, because he thinks he's a ladies man and he's not at all. He's a murderer of women, he won't do it to men because men can handle him and women can't. I have no remorse for this monster, and he will never be any good for society, and no he isn't not mentally crazy!!!


Sorry guys just had to rant about him!!
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:11 PM
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I hope he gets on here and reads this so he will know that NOBODY likes him just like Casey, maybe they should date and we will see who kills who first!!! Ugh he makes me so angry, thinking about those girls
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:36 PM
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http://www.hartvannederland.nl/neder...fvermindering/

Partial Translation

Joran wants reduced sentence

Quote:
Joran has used the opportunity to appeal to, let his lawyer know. That does not mean that he formally appealed, because he must submit reasoning for this and he has ten days to do so.
Quote:
His lawyer explains: "Joran said on Friday that he would retain the right to go against the punishment. Thus he could think about it this weekend, after everything that happened. And Monday was seen as 24 hours after delivery, because Saturday and Sunday do not count. 24 hours after delivery, we have a written request for appeal filed. "
Quote:
Joran thinks according to his lawyer because he best chance for remission. "Friday we discussed and we did not agree with the punishment. It was a fleeting conversation, we believed that we could get a lower sentence. I can not say how much the reduction would be. But the punishment he received is only a little lower than the demand. "
So JVDS has to come up with his reasoning for the appeal, we can probably guess what he'll come up with.

JMHO
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:34 PM
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has this been posted already?

google translation from spanish article:


Dutch murderer is in the observation area and is guarded 24 hours a day for two agents.

Joran van der Sloot is now a prisoner in the prison Ancon 1 (formerly "piedras gordas"). The confessed murderer of Stephany Flores was placed in the observation area of the prison or Meditation. They shared courtyard with the famous Jorge Chávez Montoya ("Polish") and José Roque Alejos ("Payet Cholo").

According to prison sources, the Dutchman remains guarded 24 hours a day by two security officers and can only move in a courtyard of 3 × 4 square meters.

"He came last Friday, at 8:00 pm. It has a room for him, but shares a patio, do not talk to anyone and avoid eating things that give" the source told.

Joran will stay in this area until the prison board and transfer it to classify a pavilion and also specify the special scheme to be submitted. This will depend on the degree of danger and crime.

It also emerged that it is more likely that the Dutch to stay in the observation area to avoid any conflicts with other inmates.

Under the rules, Joran should be subjected to the regime, i.e. have only four hours in the yard, four visits a week, only immediate family and through call centers.


http://trome.pe/actualidad/1361232/n...quecholo-payet


avoid eating "things that give"?
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what the massei motivation report against knox and sollectio really shows:

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Old 01-17-2012, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annalia View Post
http://www.hartvannederland.nl/neder...fvermindering/

Partial Translation

Joran wants reduced sentence







So JVDS has to come up with his reasoning for the appeal, we can probably guess what he'll come up with.

JMHO

He's dreaming. He thought if he 'admitted to the murder' he would get only 8 - 10 years or so. He's not happy that the judges did NOT believe his 'sincere confession.'

(note to Joran.............a SINCERE CONFESSION, also means a TRUTHFUL CONFESSION. Apparently you're not capable of telling the truth, therefore YOU LOSE!)

Maybe now he'll begin to realize that although he's managed to make it through life , it's not gonna happen anymore. At least for the next 26 years! and hopefully beyond.

Almost the WHOLE WORLD has his number now.

JMHO
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
google translation from spanish article:


Dutch murderer is in the observation area and is guarded 24 hours a day for two agents.

Joran van der Sloot is now a prisoner in the prison Ancon 1 (formerly "piedras gordas"). The confessed murderer of Stephany Flores was placed in the observation area of the prison or Meditation. They shared courtyard with the famous Jorge Chávez Montoya ("Polish") and José Roque Alejos ("Payet Cholo").

According to prison sources, the Dutchman remains guarded 24 hours a day by two security officers and can only move in a courtyard of 3 × 4 square meters.

"He came last Friday, at 8:00 pm. It has a room for him, but shares a patio, do not talk to anyone and avoid eating things that give" the source told.

Joran will stay in this area until the prison board and transfer it to classify a pavilion and also specify the special scheme to be submitted. This will depend on the degree of danger and crime.

It also emerged that it is more likely that the Dutch to stay in the observation area to avoid any conflicts with other inmates.

Under the rules, Joran should be subjected to the regime, i.e. have only four hours in the yard, four visits a week, only immediate family and through call centers.


http://trome.pe/actualidad/1361232/n...quecholo-payet


avoid eating "things that give"?
I bet there's a lot of prisoners in Castro Castro, Lurigancho and Piedras Gordas that would like to be put in solitary to "avoid any conflict with other inmates".

It's no different than his situation in Castro Castro. He"ll still get to mingle with the criminal elite. What makes him so special since he seems to think he's just a "simple murderer".

And it sounds like he's again refusing to eat the food they give him so he can get them to let him "order out" like at Castro Castro.

MOO
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:54 PM
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The'PersonalStory'OfAKiller,HandwrittenByJoranVanDerSloot

Titled 'My Personal Story,' van der Sloot was asked to write the text by forensic psychologist Silvia Rojas Regalado as part of a handwriting examination and it is part of an official police document.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusive...ldhood-history
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:21 PM
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Father of Joran Van der Sloot Murder Victim Speaks Out

http://pulitzerandthompson.com/fathe...im-speaks-out/
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