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  #201  
Old 01-27-2012, 09:38 PM
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The thing that's bothersome to me about MH - well, ONE thing among many, that is - is that she's employed at the VA hospital in Lake city, if I'm not mistaken. These patients don't have a choice to change doctors. I know I wouldn't want her to read my x-rays or involved in any aspect of my medical care. But these patients are at the mercy of who the VA employs.
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  #202  
Old 01-27-2012, 09:47 PM
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The thing that's bothersome to me about MH - well, ONE thing among many, that is - is that she's employed at the VA hospital in Lake city, if I'm not mistaken. These patients don't have a choice to change doctors. I know I wouldn't want her to read my x-rays or involved in any aspect of my medical care. But these patients are at the mercy of who the VA employs.
Is that a government run hospital? Because if it is, that explains why she's still employed.

MOO
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:24 AM
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In still other JVS news, it looks like JVS is refusing to testify at the trial of the taxi drivers that transported him.
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That figures... The only thing Joran cares about is Joran.. He doesn't give a hoot for the taxi drivers he talked into driving him to Chile.

if he did tell the taxi drivers he was fleeing after murdering someone, why should anyone "give a hoot" about them? they broke the law and deserve what they get. instead of having honor and integrity, they chose their path (literally and figuratively) for money... exactly the same "reward" j was after when he murdered stephany.
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  #204  
Old 01-28-2012, 01:12 AM
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if he did tell the taxi drivers he was fleeing after murdering someone, why should anyone "give a hoot" about them? they broke the law and deserve what they get. instead of having honor and integrity, they chose their path (literally and figuratively) for money... exactly the same "reward" j was after when he murdered stephany.
I didn't think he told them he murdered her. They found out after they parted ways with him, right?
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:16 AM
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I didn't see the show but watched some clips. I couldn't even stand to watch the entirety of the clips because that woman is just infuriating. I don't believe anything that anyone could say or do would ever shake her belief in JVDS. Just wow - everyone conspired together in a twisted plot to bring down JVDS, everything JVDS says is trustworthy, and people are making death threats against Dr. Hamer and JVDS' family.
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:27 AM
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I didn't think he told them he murdered her. They found out after they parted ways with him, right?

j told them he had stabbed a man for money and was on his way to chile where his g/f was waiting (Portrait of a Monster p. 127)... so no, he didn't confess to murdering stephany but he did implicate himself in a crime. the taxi drivers should've called the policia then and there. they didn't -- for money
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  #207  
Old 01-28-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
The thing that's bothersome to me about MH - well, ONE thing among many, that is - is that she's employed at the VA hospital in Lake city, if I'm not mistaken. These patients don't have a choice to change doctors. I know I wouldn't want her to read my x-rays or involved in any aspect of my medical care. But these patients are at the mercy of who the VA employs.
ITA

And it's outrageous that she even dares to use our wounded warriors suffering from real PTSD in the same sentence as a murderer like JVDS.

I'm convinced that this PTSD that Jimenez wanted to sneak in at the end came from MH's urging. Maybe she wanted Jimenez to use her at trial and that's another reason why she's ticked at him.
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  #208  
Old 01-28-2012, 11:45 AM
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I hope it's ok to post this, there is some foul language in the article, but there are a few videos with portions of MH's interview.

http://jezebel.com/mary-hamer/
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:35 PM
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j told them he had stabbed a man for money and was on his way to chile where his g/f was waiting (Portrait of a Monster p. 127)... so no, he didn't confess to murdering stephany but he did implicate himself in a crime. the taxi drivers should've called the policia then and there. they didn't -- for money
I haven't read the book, but do the authors say where they got their information? From Joran? From his lawyer? Or from the taxi drivers? The problem with this case is that a lot of information comes from Joran or his advocates/fans and to be honest, I don't think anything he or they say can be trusted to be the truth. So many questions about both Stephany's and Natalie's cases that no one will ever know the answers because the real truth is locked up in Joran's head.
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  #210  
Old 01-28-2012, 02:41 PM
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ITA

And it's outrageous that she even dares to use our wounded warriors suffering from real PTSD in the same sentence as a murderer like JVDS.

I'm convinced that this PTSD that Jimenez wanted to sneak in at the end came from MH's urging. Maybe she wanted Jimenez to use her at trial and that's another reason why she's ticked at him.
She's a radiologist. How is she qualified to recognize anyone with PTSD? Especially since the only way she can observe that person is on a video on TV or on the internet? In the latest Anderson Cooper interview, she said that she'd diagnosed the PTSD after watching him get walked to the plane in Chile before being sent back to Peru in those first videos we saw after they caught him... WTH????
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  #211  
Old 01-28-2012, 06:31 PM
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Niner asked if I would give an analysis of Joran's handwriting from the samples provided at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml

This is not a formal analysis but merely an outline of a few revelations in Joran's handwriting. I have to say, it was interesting to see his handwriting after all these years. The first thing that struck me was his signature. It did not match his handwriting and looked as if someone had tried to mark it out or scratch over it; eradicate it, if you will. In fact, I thought someone else had tried to possibly hide who the letter was from and had written furiously over his name. As I scrolled down to the other examples, I saw that the other signatures were the same, so it became apparent Joran signs his name, then crosses over it with multiple lines in different directions.

This type of "crossing out" and "shielding" is indicative of two things. First of all, Joran is subconsciously "eradicating" himself or his identity. It could be that Joran has self-loathing that is deep-seated, and I even thought the two murders he has committed (that we know of) could be suicide by proxy. Anytime there is a reduction in size or crossing out of a name, there are issues related to the bearer of that name. Sometimes, you will see it in a surname, where the person has problems with their father or step-father (if they were adopted). Secondly, Joran's attempt to hide his name (identity) behind the wall of scratches shows a conscious effort to conceal who he really is. The real Joran hides behind a mask, and like most sociopaths, can charm others with multiple lies when needed. Joran invents a persona in order to relate to people, but no one sees the real Joran.

This mask is part of Joran's psychological make-up, which includes being unable to connect to others emotionally. The large spaces between his words show an inability to relate to people. Joran sees everyone as things he can use, not humans with which he interacts. There are other indications of Joran's sociopathic nature, but the bottom line is, there are no indications of empathy in his handwriting.

The variations in his letters, slant and baseline all indicate Joran is moody and unable to control his emotions at time. Various tics and slashing strokes indicate he has a temper and the depth of his anger is deep-seated. Joran can present a pleasant affect when needed, but if he is crossed, he will become angry very quickly and blame someone else for his own actions. His handwriting is that of a classic abuser.

Another thing that struck me when I first looked at Joran's handwriting was that it was immature for his age. It is the handwriting of someone with arrested development. In my estimation, Joran's development is stuck somewhere in his elementary school years. With Joran's sociopathic tendencies and emotional immaturity, he is a volatile mix. It could be something traumatic happened to him at an early age, such as sexual abuse, that caused this arrested development, but that is just speculation.

Joran is a consummate liar, and lies even when it's unnecessary. This is indicated by certain strokes within his 'o's and 'a's, known as communication letters. Like most socipaths, Joran believes he is much more intelligent than everyone else, and that he can lie his way out of any situation.

There was one handwriting trait I was surprised to see, and that was Joran's need for "mother love" as indicated by some of his 'y' strokes in the lower zone. Subconsciously, Joran would like to be "cradled" by a mother figure. Unfortunately, his sociopathic nature will never let him be part of a mature relationship, and he will always feel sorry for himself and believe he was never loved enough as a child. Whether that is the truth or not, it is what Joran believes, and he will use it as an excuse to justify the way he treats others.

Something else that shows up in Joran's handwriting is an unusual "squeezing" of words or parts of words. If you look at full sentences, you see words that are smaller than the rest, or there will be a word with normal letters, but the ending syllable has letters that are smaller (and squeezed tightly together) compared to the rest of the word. This is noticible in several words wth "ing" as the ending. Sometimes, you can hardly see the 'n' and 'g' as separate letters.

This handwriting trait is indicative of someone who is not consistent and does not follow rules. For them, rules are made to be broken, and they will get away with whatever they can, even if it's leaving out letters (like leaving out the truth) or compacting/squeezing/strangling letters (or someone) to get what they want. People like Joran construct the world around them to fit THEIR needs, and they will do whatever they have to do in order for that to happen.


This analysis is my opinion only. Please do not copy to other forums without permission.


bumping up Cherokee's analysis, since I haven't seen anyone discuss this...
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  #212  
Old 01-28-2012, 07:10 PM
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bumping up Cherokee's analysis, since I haven't seen anyone discuss this...
I think Cherokee nailed it! It was pretty much the same as the handwriting analysist that was on Dr. Drew's show said - only in much more detail. Thanks again, Cherokee!

I don't see where JVS gets off refusing to testify at the taxi drivers' trial. I mean, he's in prison for cryin' out loud. He has no rights. They need to handcuff him, chain him up and drag his sorry a$$ to the court. Maybe is has something to do with the INPE strike? My hope is this won't bode well for his appeal, claiming he was so co-operative with his 'sincere' confession and all. I hope they ship him off to Challapalca.
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  #213  
Old 01-28-2012, 08:43 PM
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I haven't read the book, but do the authors say where they got their information? From Joran? From his lawyer? Or from the taxi drivers?

sworn statements from the three taxi drivers

http://pulitzerandthompson.com/joran...nd-the-scenes/


what i don't understand is why the taxi drivers would admit this to anyone? did they really think it would be somehow helpful to their case to say they knew he committed a heinous crime in lima? if they'd kept their mouths shut, would they still have been arrested for assisting a criminal flee the country?


get the book if u have time... good read!
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:03 PM
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just had a thought:

i wonder if the chilean police told the taxi drivers they wouldn't be charged with anything if they told all they knew... and then the police went back on their word? (or some similar scenario). why else would they spill all?

maybe cole will show up and be able to answer this... !!!
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  #215  
Old 01-28-2012, 11:32 PM
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sworn statements from the three taxi drivers

http://pulitzerandthompson.com/joran...nd-the-scenes/


what i don't understand is why the taxi drivers would admit this to anyone? did they really think it would be somehow helpful to their case to say they knew he committed a heinous crime in lima? if they'd kept their mouths shut, would they still have been arrested for assisting a criminal flee the country?
get the book if u have time... good read!
Im confused. Why wasnt this used at the trial -sentencing? Is there
something coming I am aware of due to his appeal?

This kind of evidence would put him away for life, I would think .
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:33 AM
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Im confused. Why wasnt this used at the trial -sentencing? Is there
something coming I am aware of due to his appeal?

This kind of evidence would put him away for life, I would think .
That's what I was thinking. The sworn statements say that he told them he killed someone for money?!? Which as we know if robbery was the motive then it was a life sentence?

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Old 01-29-2012, 12:39 AM
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bumping up Cherokee's analysis, since I haven't seen anyone discuss this...
So many different things to pick out from that analysis but I'm really curious about the crossing out of his name...or the "eradicating" himself or his identity. I wonder if he always signed that way or if this is a recent development.

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Old 01-29-2012, 02:28 AM
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Im confused. Why wasnt this used at the trial -sentencing? Is there something coming I am aware of due to his appeal?

This kind of evidence would put him away for life, I would think.
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That's what I was thinking. The sworn statements say that he told them he killed someone for money?!? Which as we know if robbery was the motive then it was a life sentence?

very good points... never made this connection myself.

hopefully cole can elaborate on this too...

maybe a legal eagle can assist with this if mr thompson is not available any time soon...
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:41 AM
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Portrait of a Monster (Nook version)

Pg 132 - Again underway, Joran began spinning a picaresque tale, saying he had stabbed a man with a lot of money. He was on his way to Santiago, Chile, where his girlfriend was waiting. The taxi drivers were speechless. Perhaps the Aruban, with his rudimentary Spanish, had meant something else.

Pg 260 - Joran's account suggested that Stephany had not been murdered, but had died as a result of his self-defense. He claimed that a robbery had not been hiss motive, but an afterthought.


I'm just throwing out a thought here. Since he told the taxi drivers it was a man (not a woman) and he didn't have the funds to pay them when they reached their destination, he (once again) wasn't believable and they couldn't prove it?

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Old 01-29-2012, 11:20 AM
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I'm just wondering what Joran support forum MH is a member of. Or did Joran have the opportunity to tell her all that himself?
Given the outlandish and outrageous things she said it wouldn't be shocking to learn it was a combination of both. IIRC, MH said that she was told by JVDS when she talked to him, so then where did he come up with it? We know he was able to access the internet from prison and had regular use of a phone.

When he was first questioned by police in Peru, he was asked some pretty simple and basic questions, where did he stay and how much did he pay. He said he paid 50 soles a night. That's isn't a question he would be confused about, he either paid or he didn't. Hotel employees also said that he would come down and pay cash for his room and that they saw there were unpaid nights. All MH had to do was a little homework and she would have seen that JVDS was conning her, that is if she really even cares about the truth.

ETA: And all MH had to do was check and she would have also known that in order to be a CIA agent, Secret Service agent, or an FBI agent, they would need to be an American citizen, neither Mr Flores or Elton Garcia are American citizens. Again, that is IF truth is something she even cares about.

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Old 01-29-2012, 11:28 AM
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sworn statements from the three taxi drivers

http://pulitzerandthompson.com/joran...nd-the-scenes/


what i don't understand is why the taxi drivers would admit this to anyone? did they really think it would be somehow helpful to their case to say they knew he committed a heinous crime in lima? if they'd kept their mouths shut, would they still have been arrested for assisting a criminal flee the country?


get the book if u have time... good read!
Could it be that they were really giving a sincere confession, according to Peru law they would get credit, as opposed to lying and possibly winding up with a higher sentence?
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:37 PM
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I'm just throwing out a thought here. Since he told the taxi drivers it was a man (not a woman) and he didn't have the funds to pay them when they reached their destination, he (once again) wasn't believable and they couldn't prove it?

so unfortunately then, in peru "sworn statements" hold no water even if the perp lies only about the sex of the victim? the actual content of what j said for the most part was still 100% true though.

IDK.
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  #223  
Old 01-29-2012, 05:03 PM
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Portrait of a Monster (Nook version)

Pg 132 - Again underway, Joran began spinning a picaresque tale, saying he had stabbed a man with a lot of money. He was on his way to Santiago, Chile, where his girlfriend was waiting. The taxi drivers were speechless. Perhaps the Aruban, with his rudimentary Spanish, had meant something else.

Pg 260 - Joran's account suggested that Stephany had not been murdered, but had died as a result of his self-defense. He claimed that a robbery had not been hiss motive, but an afterthought.


I'm just throwing out a thought here. Since he told the taxi drivers it was a man (not a woman) and he didn't have the funds to pay them when they reached their destination, he (once again) wasn't believable and they couldn't prove it?
BBM

When it's put that way it sounds more like he had just stabbed a wealthy man and he was in fear for his life. Not that he had just killed someone for money.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:28 PM
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So many different things to pick out from that analysis but I'm really curious about the crossing out of his name...or the "eradicating" himself or his identity. I wonder if he always signed that way or if this is a recent development.

I'd be interested to know that, as well. I loved Cherokee's analysis, very informative. Now all I need is to see something that JVDS signed before he met Stephany OR Natalee.

I wonder if maybe he scratches his name out when he really doesn't want to sign something. Maybe he's trying to give himself a chance to claim "I didn't really sign that" to try to weasel out of stuff. It just doesn't seem like an "adult," if you will, way to sign something.
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:19 PM
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I'd be interested to know that, as well. I loved Cherokee's analysis, very informative. Now all I need is to see something that JVDS signed before he met Stephany OR Natalee.

I wonder if maybe he scratches his name out when he really doesn't want to sign something. Maybe he's trying to give himself a chance to claim "I didn't really sign that" to try to weasel out of stuff. It just doesn't seem like an "adult," if you will, way to sign something.
Well I think I remember seeing it in the signature on his "coerced confession" but does anyone have any copies of the stuff he sent the girlfriend when he was a teenager? Didn't she do some show and present a bunch of stuff he had written her?
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