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Lisa Irwin Missing! 10 mo old Lisa Irwin disappeared from her crib in the middle of the night. Where is she?


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  #76  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:48 PM
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Sorry, I refuse to believe anyone who makes a statement to LE that goes against the 'popular' theory is purposely lying and was hired by a lawyer. I guess if they really did see something, they should of kept their mouth shut since that would go against the 'parent's did it' theory.
I never said they were hired by a lawyer.
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  #77  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:49 PM
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I agree. Look, I understand there are a ton of reasons not the give the parents the benefit of the doubt, especially when it comes to stories about what happened. But I don't think one should auto disregard any story that goes against who they think is responsible either. Despite what we all think about who and what went down that night, the fact remains that we are no closer to figuring out what happened now then we were in October or even November. There could be a story tomorrow that shows that BL had indeed been abducted and some family has been caring for her. Now, I'm sure the shock that would befall a lot of people would probably send tremors through the internet, but I don't think at the end of the day anyone could say it was impossible, because it at this point anything is still possible.
Yes, anything IS possible. And I can understand in this situation why people are suspicious. But it is just kind of like an attitude that's scary to me. "DB did it!! She's evil! I will take nothing else into consideration, I KNOW she did it!" Just a narrow-mindedness that really bothers me. And no, if we finally find out what happened to poor Lisa ( and I hope it's soon) and it turns out that DB or JI was behind it, I'm not going to say "Oh no, I don't believe it! It's a frame up!" If there is evidence that shows this, then so be it, I would vilify them also. But right now, I just don't see it. LE has really been tight lipped on what they have or don't have, and that is probably good for the case, but it also causes much speculation, rumors, etc.
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  #78  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:49 PM
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One would be surprised how many people saw Lacey Peterson in a black and white outfit walking her dog AFTER she was dead. This happens often when attorneys are involved. Look at Caylee...same thing. Baez and cindy had LE chasing down ghosts all over this nation and beyond. It's what they do to create reasonable doubt. It Appears to be working with some.

BBM: Exactly ! And all of these "alleged sightings" just happened to be AFTER Bill Stanton showed up ... oh, ADD Joe Tacopino showing up . . .

I just canNOT believe that some "believe" these "alleged sightings" . . .

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Old 01-23-2012, 03:50 PM
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I agree. Look, I understand there are a ton of reasons not the give the parents the benefit of the doubt, especially when it comes to stories about what happened. But I don't think one should auto disregard any story that goes against who they think is responsible either. Despite what we all think about who and what went down that night, the fact remains that we are no closer to figuring out what happened now then we were in October or even November. There could be a story tomorrow that shows that BL had indeed been abducted and some family has been caring for her. Now, I'm sure the shock that would befall a lot of people would probably send tremors through the internet, but I don't think at the end of the day anyone could say it was impossible, because it at this point anything is still possible.
Very well put! While many do not agree with the parents actions (myself included, honestly their actions are my biggest reason for suspecting them, not any of the evidence) this doesn't mean they are guilty. Possibly they've gotten bad advice? How is no one in their family speaking out? Siblings, cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents?
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:53 PM
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Aha! I finally found it. here is a link to a CNN video interview with Jim Spellman:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/cri...r-sighting.hln
Thanks! I can't watch videos, probably why I didn't see that.
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  #81  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:55 PM
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Very well put! While many do not agree with the parents actions (myself included, honestly their actions are my biggest reason for suspecting them, not any of the evidence) this doesn't mean they are guilty. Possibly they've gotten bad advice? How is no one in their family speaking out? Siblings, cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents?
I agree on the parents not speaking out, it bothers me too. I place the blame for that on that shyster Tacopina. But that is just my opinion. As far as the family goes, one of the grandparents did give a real nice interview (Deb's dad , I think?) And I have seen some things on FB, such as from Ashley Irwin. But it seems that whenever one of them opens their mouth, they are called a liar and things much more horrible than that. NO ONE seems to believe anything that they say, so maybe that is why. But that's just what I think.
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  #82  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:56 PM
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Very well put! While many do not agree with the parents actions (myself included, honestly their actions are my biggest reason for suspecting them, not any of the evidence) this doesn't mean they are guilty. Possibly they've gotten bad advice? How is no one in their family speaking out? Siblings, cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents?
Bad Advice? What innocent parent would sit back and do nothing to find their child? What innocent parent would care what LE thinks of them? We have a parent on this board who sat in jail for their child and still has never given up searching for him.

There is no one that would sit back and do nothing to find their child because attorneys told them to hide...except if they were more concerned for their own behinds than the life of their baby.
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  #83  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:57 PM
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Thanks! I can't watch videos, probably why I didn't see that.
Oh. Sorry. I used to have satellite internet, couldn't watch videos either, it sucked.
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  #84  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:59 PM
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I never said they were hired by a lawyer.
I followed the Cooper case last year. I don't know if your familiar with it, but it was about a woman who was abducted/killed while allegedly jogging. Turns out she never went jogging, her husband killed her. But one of the defenses biggest witnesses was a lady who said she saw her go jogging that morning. Now, when she got up on the stand and testified, it was obvious after a while that she in fact, did not see Nancy Cooper. But this lady truly believed she did. She saw someone. She wasn't lying, she wasn't trying to lead LE on a wild goose chase. She was just a lady who believed in what she saw.

Not everything is a conspiracy if it goes against your frame of thinking.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:02 PM
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BBM: Exactly ! And all of these "alleged sightings" just happened to be AFTER Bill Stanton showed up ... oh, ADD Joe Tacopino showing up . . .

I just canNOT believe that some "believe" these "alleged sightings" . . .

There was a robbery in a local store. There were three woman in the tiny store at the time. He had a gun and the women were terrified. Each woman described the man. One had him @ 6 ft and possibly black. One had him @ 5'10 and white and one had him @ 5'8 and Hispanic. People are notoriously bad as eye witnesses to a crime when it involves a stranger.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
I followed the Cooper case last year. I don't know if your familiar with it, but it was about a woman who was abducted/killed while allegedly jogging. Turns out she never went jogging, her husband killed her. But one of the defenses biggest witnesses was a lady who said she saw her go jogging that morning. Now, when she got up on the stand and testified, it was obvious after a while that she in fact, did not see Nancy Cooper. But this lady truly believed she did. She saw someone. She wasn't lying, she wasn't trying to lead LE on a wild goose chase. She was just a lady who believed in what she saw.

[b]Not everything is a conspiracy if it goes against your frame of thinking.
??????

Wait a second. I am not a conspiracy theorist. There are no conspiracy issues here. this is a matter of "Spin". Attorneys and even defendents using a witness to their advantage...

....Baez did it many times...so did Cindy. I have named other cases. It happens in high profile cases.

Last edited by Whisperer; 01-23-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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  #87  
Old 01-23-2012, 04:21 PM
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??????

Wait a second. I have NEVER believed in conspiracy these type of cases. There are no conspiracy issues here. this is a matter of "Spin". Attorneys and even defendents using a witness to their advantage...

....Baez did it many times...so did Cindy. It happens in high profile cases.
This PI (Ron Rugen) sought the guy out, not the other way around. Or do you think the PI is a DT mole as well? The Anthony case has clearly jaded you. Not every case is like that one. In fact, there is no other case like that one.
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  #88  
Old 01-23-2012, 04:21 PM
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I followed the Cooper case last year. I don't know if your familiar with it, but it was about a woman who was abducted/killed while allegedly jogging. Turns out she never went jogging, her husband killed her. But one of the defenses biggest witnesses was a lady who said she saw her go jogging that morning. Now, when she got up on the stand and testified, it was obvious after a while that she in fact, did not see Nancy Cooper. But this lady truly believed she did. She saw someone. She wasn't lying, she wasn't trying to lead LE on a wild goose chase. She was just a lady who believed in what she saw.

Not everything is a conspiracy if it goes against your frame of thinking.




I have NEVER believed in conspiracy crimes. There are no conspiracy issues here....this is a matter of "Spin". Attorneys using a witness to their advantage...

....Baez did it many times. Geragos used it with Laci Peterson. If it isn't people that thought they saw something, it will be another crime that occurred there and those people did it.
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  #89  
Old 01-23-2012, 04:26 PM
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This PI (Ron Rugen) sought the guy out, not the other way around. Or do you think the PI is a DT mole as well? The Anthony case has clearly jaded you. Not every case is like that one. In fact, there is no other case like that one.
OH, it isn't just the Anthony case, it is the manner and level of deception that a few Defense Attorneys are willing to go to protect their client

After reviewing hundreds of criminal files and talking to criminals, I can guarantee you I am jaded. You betcha! I believe that LE usually gets it right. Sure they make mistakes at times but in the long run, their suspicions prove to be right-on.

As far as the Anthony case goes, many people should become jaded. That was a definite show of how wrong using emotion was instead of logic. They were unwilling and probably unable to piece it together and didn't care to try. They stood behind "there is no evidence" mantra as an excuse to derail a trial of a guilty mother who murdered her daughter. There was evidence, plenty. They wanted DNA and they wanted to know how it happened...neither of which could be provided. Furthermore, it was not necessary to have.

Last edited by Whisperer; 01-23-2012 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:28 PM
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...not true. IMO, many Defense attorneys run similar tactics.
So, do you believe Ron Rugen is a DT mole? He posts here from time to time so we can ask him.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:31 PM
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BBM: Exactly ! And all of these "alleged sightings" just happened to be AFTER Bill Stanton showed up ... oh, ADD Joe Tacopino showing up . . .

I just canNOT believe that some "believe" these "alleged sightings" . . .

Actually that is not correct. Here is thread #2 for Lisa. On October 5, 2011, the day after Lisa was reported missing, the sighting of a baby by the neighbors (man and wife)was reported:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...le#post7188840

This was before Tacopina or Stanton were involved.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:34 PM
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??????

Wait a second. I am not a conspiracy theorist. There are no conspiracy issues here. this is a matter of "Spin". Attorneys and even defendents using a witness to their advantage...
....Baez did it many times...so did Cindy. I have named other cases. It happens in high profile cases.
A man said he was driving his motorcycle and saw another man walking down the street carrying an unclothed baby. He reported what he saw. Where is the "spin" in that?
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:38 PM
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For the final time. I have no problem with what the witnesses thought they saw or did see. I don't know who Ron Rugen is but he must be important to the case because it has been suggested I may think he is a mole.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:46 PM
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A man said he was driving his motorcycle and saw another man walking down the street carrying an unclothed baby. He reported what he saw. Where is the "spin" in that?
Apparently some choose to believe it was Baby Lisa being carried away in one or two locations. And apparently, this person is the one who stole Lisa from her home. Now, is this person a crafty criminal or a psycho/maniac/pedophile?

Note to self. Baby is not dressed, is alert. She has been out in the night possibly for about 4 hours...with a stranger. She is quiet...as no cries or sounds were heard.

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Old 01-23-2012, 04:54 PM
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Actually that is not correct. Here is thread #2 for Lisa. On October 5, 2011, the day after Lisa was reported missing, the sighting of a baby by the neighbors (man and wife)was reported:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...le#post7188840

This was before Tacopina or Stanton were involved.
At this time, the female describes "lisa" as being held close to the chest. She describes the male as holding "lisa's head next to his chest.

I have not seen a thirty pound child being held this way. She described his hands as covering her head and bringing it to his chest...with perhaps one leg of Lisa's hanging under his arm. She saw this from a window with blinds?

Does her husband ever speak and describe what he actually saw? She speaks as if she is the one who saw this and not him. Yet, it is stated it was told to her by her husband. He obviously doesn't want to tell the story himself.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:55 PM
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Apparently some choose to believe it was Baby Lisa being carried away in one or two locations. And apparently, this person is the one who stole Lisa from her home. Now, is this person a crafty criminal or a psycho/maniac/pedophile?

Note to self. Baby is not dressed, is alert. She has been out in the night possibly for about 4 hours...with a stranger. She is quiet...as no cries were heard.
I have no idea if it was Lisa, or was not Lisa. But I do believe that MT saw a man carrying a baby clad only in a diaper. And I believe that obviously it is something that needs to be investigated, if it is not currently already being investigated.

Why would he make it up? I guess he could, if he were an "odd" person. But why say the baby wasnt wearing any clothes? On a fairly chilly night? And who is to say that the man carrying the baby WAS a stranger to her? Maybe he wasn't. I just don't see disregarding it out of hand.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:55 PM
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Actually that is not correct. Here is thread #2 for Lisa. On October 5, 2011, the day after Lisa was reported missing, the sighting of a baby by the neighbors (man and wife)was reported:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...le#post7188840

This was before Tacopina or Stanton were involved.

BBM: I do not recall this "man / neighbor" -- speaking directly to the media --
his "wife" was speaking FOR him. "Wife" was "peeking through the blinds" ... and her story changed ...

JMO ... but I think someone wanted their 15 minutes . . .

MOO ...
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:59 PM
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I have no idea if it was Lisa, or was not Lisa. But I do believe that MT saw a man carrying a baby clad only in a diaper. And I believe that obviously it is something that needs to be investigated, if it is not currently already being investigated.

Why would he make it up? I guess he could, if he were an "odd" person. But why say the baby wasnt wearing any clothes? On a fairly chilly night? And who is to say that the man carrying the baby WAS a stranger to her? Maybe he wasn't. I just don't see disregarding it out of hand.
I don't know what he saw or didn't see. But why did people believe they saw Laci Peterson after Scott Peterson went sturgeon fishing? When Tyler Dasher went missing, there were immediately reports of man seen with a baby (and we all know how that one turned out). Just because someone thinks they saw something doesn't necessarily makes it so.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:01 PM
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At this time, the female describes "lisa" as being held close to the chest. She describes the male as holding "lisa's head next to his chest.

I have not seen a thirty pound child being held this way. She described his hands as covering her head and bringing it to his chest...with perhaps one leg of Lisa's hanging under his arm. She saw this from a window.

Does her husband ever speak and describe what he saw? She is speaking for her husband who actually saw this?
I don't believe that the husband ever did agree to be interviewed(on camera). My impression was that he was very uncomfortable having any attention on himself, maybe he is just one of those types of people. Though I may be wrong, if anyone knows of an interview with him feel free to link.

A 30 pound child could be carried this way. I carried my children this way when they were sleeping. Not when they were 30 pounds, but I am only 5'1", so it wouldn't really be feasible. Or maybe the guy was purposely holding the baby's head to his chest, I dont know. I also don't know if this baby was Lisa either. But it is something to ponder, and it is not impossible.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:03 PM
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BBM: I do not recall this "man / neighbor" -- speaking directly to the media --
his "wife" was speaking FOR him. "Wife" was "peeking through the blinds" ... and her story changed ...

JMO ... but I think someone wanted their 15 minutes . . .

MOO ...
I was just pointing out that this "tip" was received before DB and JI had hired anyone.
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