Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Featured Case Discussion > Hot Cases > Susan Cox Powell

Notices

Susan Cox Powell Missing from West Valley City, Utah, and last seen on December 6, 2009.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 02-10-2012, 10:34 PM
mck16's Avatar
mck16 mck16 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwenabob View Post
She won't get the money. It is part of Josh's estate. It will be put into an account and it will have to be probated. The first thing that will be paid from that money is burial expenses. I expect that the funds will be extinguished just from that.
What if she or someone else already has the money and the police never find it?
__________________
My prayers are for the innocent.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mck16 For This Useful Post:
  #77  
Old 02-10-2012, 10:35 PM
dovebar dovebar is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 737
I can't help but think that the toys may have been SP's items to groom children.

JMO.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dovebar For This Useful Post:
  #78  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:14 AM
LadyL's Avatar
LadyL LadyL is offline
Until they all come home
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dal Gal View Post
Another theory about the $7K: It was SP's money that JP kept in his own bank account to transfer to SP's jailhouse account as needed. To keep the account out of probate and immediately available to SP (SP's own idea if he knew what JP planned to do???), JP emailed instructions to his sister AP on where to find it so that she could resume the transfer duties.

Josh had a lot to say to Alina, sending her FOUR emails that she refused to voluntarily turn over to police: http://www.abc4.com/content/news/sus...u5ApM3X-Q.cspx
good ol' Alina ... doing the wrong thing again
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to LadyL For This Useful Post:
  #79  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:17 AM
dovebar dovebar is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 737
She might have 7000 reasons not to.

JMO
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to dovebar For This Useful Post:
  #80  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:48 AM
LadyL's Avatar
LadyL LadyL is offline
Until they all come home
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spice View Post
I don't think the detailed planning of withdrawing money, giving away toys, and shutting off utilities points to him faking his death or is weird at all. Suicidal people do these things all of the time, planning is a huge part of their process, even if it doesn't make sense to others. It is a way of psychologically preparing to end life. It also doesn't surprise me that others reported that he seemed upbeat and happy in recent weeks.

Giving away belongings, upbeat and happy attitude, closing out affairs are all classic precursor signs in suicidal people. They are actually considered major warning signs and point to danger.

This case has my head absolutely spinning and I am nauseated at the horror that those two little innocent boys endured at the hands of their father. What a selfish, sick and extremely sadistic man he was.
[bbm]

who reported that he's been upbeat & happy? I haven't read that ...
I agree these are all warning signs ... he was closing up shop
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:51 AM
dovebar dovebar is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 737
Suicidal people have been said to often appear happier than they recently were. They have finally made a decision and they are relieved. Giving away possessions is also typical. Clearing up loose ends. Even the utility thing does not surprise me, since if his bill continued, his heirs might need to pay it (Alina).
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to dovebar For This Useful Post:
  #82  
Old 02-11-2012, 02:45 AM
gwenabob's Avatar
gwenabob gwenabob is offline
A nice girl with a disturbing hobby
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: City of Roses, Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
What if she or someone else already has the money and the police never find it?
They said on Dateline tonight that he withdrew $7,000 cash and transferred a large amount of money to another account--I think they said or implied his sister. The bank knows about it, the cops know about it, so if she doesn't turn it over, she can be arrested for theft. The cash? He told someone where to find it. They will have to figure that out.
__________________
Justice is the constant and perpetual will to allot to every man his due. Domitus Ulpian
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to gwenabob For This Useful Post:
  #83  
Old 02-11-2012, 02:51 AM
carole carole is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwenabob View Post
They said on Dateline tonight that he withdrew $7,000 cash and transferred a large amount of money to another account--I think they said or implied his sister. The bank knows about it, the cops know about it, so if she doesn't turn it over, she can be arrested for theft. The cash? He told someone where to find it. They will have to figure that out.
BBM

How would it be theft? If it was his money and he gave it to his sister, it was his to do whatever he wanted to with it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to carole For This Useful Post:
  #84  
Old 02-11-2012, 02:58 AM
Cher352's Avatar
Cher352 Cher352 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Central FL
Posts: 2,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwenabob View Post
They said on Dateline tonight that he withdrew $7,000 cash and transferred a large amount of money to another account--I think they said or implied his sister. The bank knows about it, the cops know about it, so if she doesn't turn it over, she can be arrested for theft. The cash? He told someone where to find it. They will have to figure that out.
Just wondering....
Is it against to law to give your money away before a suicide? I could understand if it was a joint account but if is just in his name.....
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Cher352 For This Useful Post:
  #85  
Old 02-11-2012, 03:04 AM
gwenabob's Avatar
gwenabob gwenabob is offline
A nice girl with a disturbing hobby
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: City of Roses, Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by carole View Post
BBM

How would it be theft? If it was his money and he gave it to his sister, it was his to do whatever he wanted to with it.
I think the money he transferred before he died could be considered a gift, but the cash that he stashed--if it is still out there, it is still considered Josh's and would be part of the estate. The Coxes might also be able to make an argument about the transferred money as well. I bet a good lawyer would be able to argue that that money should also go to the estate to settle expenses, then go to the statutory heirs, which would be the boys, then to the boys' statutory heirs, which would probably be the Coxes. It would not be fair for Josh to circumvent paying the proper burial expenses for the boys and make the Coxes pay them instead. Alina should do the right thing and turn the money over to the proper authorities so the estate can be properly probated. The money should go to cover the boys' final expenses. Anyone out there know if I am on the right track? It has been awhile since I studied Wills and Trusts.
__________________
Justice is the constant and perpetual will to allot to every man his due. Domitus Ulpian
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to gwenabob For This Useful Post:
  #86  
Old 02-11-2012, 03:08 AM
gwenabob's Avatar
gwenabob gwenabob is offline
A nice girl with a disturbing hobby
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: City of Roses, Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cher352 View Post
Just wondering....
Is it against to law to give your money away before a suicide? I could understand if it was a joint account but if is just in his name.....
I think it is morally wrong to accept and keep money that has been given for the sole purpose of circumventing paying legitimate estate expenses. There are court fees, final burial fees for himself and his children, household fees. The landlord certainly has a claim for the ruin of his house. The insurance company who will have to foot the bill has a claim against Josh for arson. All the money that Josh had should not be given away just before his death to circumvent paying those expenses. I suspect lawyers will find a way to get that money back into the estate. Otherwise, everyone would just give away all their money on their deathbed and nobody would have to pay their creditors upon their death. That would not be fair nor equitable. MOO.
__________________
Justice is the constant and perpetual will to allot to every man his due. Domitus Ulpian
Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to gwenabob For This Useful Post:
  #87  
Old 02-11-2012, 03:14 AM
Cher352's Avatar
Cher352 Cher352 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Central FL
Posts: 2,385
Your right Gwen I hadn't thought of all that...I bet there is a law about it.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 02-11-2012, 04:35 AM
KristiL's Avatar
KristiL KristiL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 96
Probably my imagination running wild here, but here it goes.....

After reading about his money I am concerned for the safety of those who are left that he and/or his father hated the most. Even more so with his father and what he used to do for a living and the connections he could still have. I pray everyone is now safe from this evil, but it just seems when you think it couldn't get any worse something else comes out.
__________________
All my posts are just my opinion !
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to KristiL For This Useful Post:
  #89  
Old 02-11-2012, 04:53 AM
hollyblue's Avatar
hollyblue hollyblue is offline
It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen that lays the eggs.
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwenabob View Post
They said on Dateline tonight that he withdrew $7,000 cash and transferred a large amount of money to another account--I think they said or implied his sister. The bank knows about it, the cops know about it, so if she doesn't turn it over, she can be arrested for theft. The cash? He told someone where to find it. They will have to figure that out.
I can't understand how she could be arrested if it was his money. He could do anything or disperse it any way he wanted, imo. ? Maybe I've been on this case too much today? LOL
__________________
Timeline, map, etc for Rachael
https://docs3.google.com/document/ed...PniSLRIE&pli=1#
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hollyblue For This Useful Post:
  #90  
Old 02-11-2012, 05:12 AM
hollyblue's Avatar
hollyblue hollyblue is offline
It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen that lays the eggs.
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by utmomof2 View Post
I wonder if they have checked to see if any large sums of money were deposited into any of his relatives account that same day? It does seem strange to withdraw so much money the day before you plan to kill yourself and your children. Why would the money be of any importance at that point?
Josh was a control freak.

If there were texts, etc about the distribution of the money with AP before, he may have told her he was planning on booking with the kids....and she was privy to it...not knowing he was really going to do what he did. ??
__________________
Timeline, map, etc for Rachael
https://docs3.google.com/document/ed...PniSLRIE&pli=1#
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hollyblue For This Useful Post:
  #91  
Old 02-11-2012, 05:34 AM
hollyblue's Avatar
hollyblue hollyblue is offline
It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen that lays the eggs.
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherbetjello View Post
Framed photos in a storage unit is super odd to me, personally. Had he of not paid this storage unit, those photos would become property of the storage unit and they auction it off the unit after a certain amount of days past due.

I used to watch "Storage Wars", breaks my heart they are allowed to auction off family photos.

The framed photos could be anything though, and if they were released to the Cox family... well, I am just going to assume they were family photos and not posters of some sort.
I think it was in the Dateline episode that most of the contents of the unit were belongings of Susan's. Not positive...I'd have to go back an listen.
__________________
Timeline, map, etc for Rachael
https://docs3.google.com/document/ed...PniSLRIE&pli=1#
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:20 AM
GrainneDhu GrainneDhu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
I still don't get the turning off the utilities when his plan was to torch the house. Maybe it was code to someone that was what he was going to do. The sister (?)
He sent the email about turning off the utilities a few days before he blew the house up, if I recall correctly.

If I am correct, I think that he was trying to divert his various supporters' attention from his true plans. If I had been his sister and had gotten an email outlining how to turn off the utilities, etc, I would assume that he was preparing against the eventuality of being arrested and held in jail.

Not too unreasonable under the conditions.

And that would also explain any new changes in mood or behaviour: he was getting stressed out about the possibility of arrest.

Give people an obvious explanation and they are less likely to think of a highly unlikely scenario: planning to kill his children and blow up the house. And so, less likely to take action in time to stop him.

He was obviously a planner and good at misdirection.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GrainneDhu For This Useful Post:
  #93  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:38 AM
gwenabob's Avatar
gwenabob gwenabob is offline
A nice girl with a disturbing hobby
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: City of Roses, Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollyblue View Post
I can't understand how she could be arrested if it was his money. He could do anything or disperse it any way he wanted, imo. ? Maybe I've been on this case too much today? LOL
I believe that if a probate court orders her to return the money and she refuses, she could be in trouble.
__________________
Justice is the constant and perpetual will to allot to every man his due. Domitus Ulpian
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to gwenabob For This Useful Post:
  #94  
Old 02-11-2012, 11:03 AM
Wagara's Avatar
Wagara Wagara is offline
Wishin' and hopin’ and thinkin’ and prayin’...
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 572
I think the sister thought he was going to leave with the boys during this visitation and didn't realize he planned to kill himself until she got the last email. Just my thought.
__________________
Whatever I say...It's only my opinion.

Last edited by Wagara; 02-11-2012 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Wagara For This Useful Post:
  #95  
Old 02-11-2012, 11:30 AM
x_files's Avatar
x_files x_files is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by carole View Post
BBM

How would it be theft? If it was his money and he gave it to his sister, it was his to do whatever he wanted to with it.
Even in a murder investigation? I am also curious.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 02-11-2012, 11:32 AM
x_files's Avatar
x_files x_files is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrainneDhu View Post
He sent the email about turning off the utilities a few days before he blew the house up, if I recall correctly.

If I am correct, I think that he was trying to divert his various supporters' attention from his true plans. If I had been his sister and had gotten an email outlining how to turn off the utilities, etc, I would assume that he was preparing against the eventuality of being arrested and held in jail.

Not too unreasonable under the conditions.

And that would also explain any new changes in mood or behaviour: he was getting stressed out about the possibility of arrest.

Give people an obvious explanation and they are less likely to think of a highly unlikely scenario: planning to kill his children and blow up the house. And so, less likely to take action in time to stop him.

He was obviously a planner and good at misdirection.
Maybe, he planned to run with them and changed his plans. He might have confided to his sister he planned to dash to another country with the boys. I could see her supporting that decision but, if she knew he was planning murder/suicide that's a whole other story.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to x_files For This Useful Post:
  #97  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:27 PM
Wyle_E_Coyote's Avatar
Wyle_E_Coyote Wyle_E_Coyote is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 60
Gifts made prior to death are not part of the probate estate. This is a very common planning technique to avoid probate fees. Under certain circumstances, gifts prior to death may be pulled into the taxable estate when the estate tax return is filed, but that is generally only relevant to high income decedents. He didn't even have to transfer the funds, he could have simply made someone a joint holder on his account and the funds would have transferred to that person immediately upon death (exact verbiage has to be correct and is dependent on state law) and not been included in the probate estate.

People are allowed to give away their assets to whomever they see fit, even if it disinherits people who would otherwise inherit.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Wyle_E_Coyote For This Useful Post:
  #98  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:58 PM
GrainneDhu GrainneDhu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
What if she or someone else already has the money and the police never find it?
Then whoever has the money will keep it and spend it as they please.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 02-11-2012, 01:08 PM
GrainneDhu GrainneDhu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by x_files View Post
Maybe, he planned to run with them and changed his plans. He might have confided to his sister he planned to dash to another country with the boys. I could see her supporting that decision but, if she knew he was planning murder/suicide that's a whole other story.
I am completely convinced his sister had no idea he planned a murder/suicide. While she seems not to have a very rational view of Josh, she clearly loved him and the 911 tape sounded like genuine distress to me.


While I believe she was wrong about her brother, I think she was another one of his victims.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GrainneDhu For This Useful Post:
  #100  
Old 02-11-2012, 03:41 PM
mysteriew's Avatar
mysteriew mysteriew is online now
A diamond in process
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cher352 View Post
Just wondering....
Is it against to law to give your money away before a suicide? I could understand if it was a joint account but if is just in his name.....
No it isn't illegal to give away your money when you are committing suicide, and a suicide wouldn't
care if it was illegal. But it isn't illegal to receive the money either, unless the person is somehow complicit in the suicide.

Here is my question. Ok let's say that JP didn't withdraw the money, let's say he transferred it to someone else's acct. Like an online check or something. When they made the suicide call or sent the suicide email, wouldn't they mention the money? If they were a controlling person, a person who was feeling out of control..... wouldn't they give instructions on what they did with the money?

Like this imagined conversation...."I am sorry for any/all the hurt I may have caused you. I have withdrawn all all my money and sent it to your acct so you will have it for our burials."??? Some kind of mention of it???? So someone is witholding their suicide call. Whose call is it that made the media? Whose call didn't make the media?

Oddity..... we aren't hearing anything from the mother or the brother Michael. Both have been very quiet since Susan went missing. I am esp interested in Michael. He lived in the home, with SP and AP and JP and the boys. And he has stayed very much in the background.

I feel pretty confident that LE knows what was said in all emails and all bank transactions, because in doing the investigations into the boys deaths, they have probable cause to search JP's accounts. So they will know who he sent emails to and what they said. And they know whose accounts he sent money to. They will be having some pretty heavy conversations with LE about now.
__________________
Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


"Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

Last edited by mysteriew; 02-11-2012 at 04:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dateline with Josh Powell 12-9-11 Kimmer Susan Cox Powell 81 01-04-2012 08:37 PM
Josh Powell Gets Children Taken Away Opp2mystic1 Susan Cox Powell 1 09-30-2011 11:30 PM
25 March 2010: Susan Cox Powell - Steve Koecher - Josh Powell - Connection? PickieChickie Susan Cox Powell 76 06-01-2011 06:35 PM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:24 AM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!