Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Featured Case Discussion > Hot Cases > Jerry Sandusky-Cover Up at Penn State > Jerry Sandusky General Discussion threads

Notices

Jerry Sandusky General Discussion threads Closed for posting-but plenty of reading.


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:01 PM
wfgodot's Avatar
wfgodot wfgodot is offline
chien méchant
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,190
Penn State Sandusky cover-up: AD arrested, Paterno fired, dies; cover-up charged #8

Please continue discussion here on the Penn State/Sandusky/Second Mile case.

Links of interest:

Thread #1

Thread #2

Thread #3

Thread #4

Thread #5

Thread #6

Thread #7


If you have important links of interest from the other threads, please post them soon as it saves others much time having to click back and find them!
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to wfgodot For This Useful Post:
  #2  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:43 PM
pinktoes pinktoes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
JJ: This probably doesn't matter, but just to add to your bank of historical knowledge about Gricar, here you go:

You said, "As far as I know, Patty Fornicola (PEF) has no relatives in Ohio...."

Might not be any longer. But in 2002, one of Gino's daughters was living in Ohio (married name):

"Cristina Brandt of Westerville, Ohio...."

From Gino's obit, at:
http://www.obitcentral.com/obitsearc...pa-centre1.htm
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pinktoes For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:44 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
From Pinktoes:

Quote:
JJ: here's the first MSM reference to other victims not fitting the profile, etc. It's in a list, I presume taken from that pdf of Amendola's requests for addnl info to fill in the gaps of what prosecutors gave him in response to his first discovery request. Don't have time now to go to the pdf; maybe someone does.
Amendola's request doesn't have anything to do with other cases Gricar looked at. He is asking what other reports the grand jury looked at.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following User Says Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #4  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:46 PM
Reader's Avatar
Reader Reader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,981
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7


I'm not sure it the "boys" psychological file.

-------

What do you mean?
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Reader For This Useful Post:
  #5  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:53 PM
Reader's Avatar
Reader Reader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,981
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7


(snip) A lot of the others, you have a victim, but no corroboration. The only ones where there is some semblance of both are 2007 and 1998. 1998 is not serious as many of the others; no rape is claimed.
------

What about the victim who claimed to be raped numerous times in the horror house basement and screamed for help but dear Dottie just couldn't hear him?
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Reader For This Useful Post:
  #6  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:56 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reader View Post
It might have been Sandusky's.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following User Says Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #7  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:58 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reader View Post
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7


(snip) A lot of the others, you have a victim, but no corroboration. The only ones where there is some semblance of both are 2007 and 1998. 1998 is not serious as many of the others; no rape is claimed.
------

What about the victim who claimed to be raped numerous times in the horror house basement and screamed for help but dear Dottie just couldn't hear him?
1. I don't think a wife can be compelled to testify against a husband.

2. She may testify that she never heard anything.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following User Says Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:05 PM
Reader's Avatar
Reader Reader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
1. I don't think a wife can be compelled to testify against a husband.

2. She may testify that she never heard anything.
I see what you meant now but think the victim's testimony will be very compelling.

Part of what the prosecutors and expert witnesses will explain is that these types of crimes are not done in front of onlookers but the predator makes all efforts to keep them in the dark. Just because there is not a direct witness does not mean it didn't happen.
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Reader For This Useful Post:
  #9  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:07 PM
Reader's Avatar
Reader Reader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
It might have been Sandusky's.

No, there are requests for psychological and counseling records on some of the victims in this link, and one section that asks for all expert testimony:

http://www.yardbird.com/pdfs/Sandusk...ion_2-6-12.pdf
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Reader For This Useful Post:
  #10  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:10 PM
Reader's Avatar
Reader Reader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,981
I found this section to be interesting:

Quote:
Defense counsel requests copies of all law enforcement
agency reports regarding the Defendant completed by any federal, state, county, sheriff
and/or local agency from within and outside the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The
Defendant is asking the Court to enter an Order directing the Commonwealth to provide
Defendant's counsel with full, complete, and non-redacted copies of these materials
pursuant to his request contained in Defendant's First Request for Pre-Trial Discovery
material along with all supplemental reports and attachments related thereto.
pp.

http://www.yardbird.com/pdfs/Sandusk...ion_2-6-12.pdf
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Reader For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:10 PM
Filly's Avatar
Filly Filly is offline
KICKING AND SHINING
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CITY OF BROTHERLY SHOVE
Posts: 17,645
Just popping in to share and say thank you to all that care about the victims here.

While making supper I hear my elderly mom go to the air I guess "well ***** anybody can see this guy got a screw loose. There's something wrong with this guy". I go to see who it is and of course it's Sandusky.

She then asks me who the lady in the purple scarf is and I explain and she goes "She's worse than him. She should be held responsible". I'm no lawyer so I couldn't explain.

Prayers for the still suffering victims.
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Filly For This Useful Post:
  #12  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:16 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
First, the prosecution might be okay on spousal privilege: http://pennacrimlaw.com/spousal-priv...ve-to-testify/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reader View Post
No, there are requests for psychological and counseling records on some of the victims in this link, and one section that asks for all expert testimony:

http://www.yardbird.com/pdfs/Sandusk...ion_2-6-12.pdf
The request, in regard to the 1998 incident, says:

There was further reporting prepared on this incident that a
psychological evaluation was conducted and a report prepared by John P. Seasock, a psychologist, of an unknown individual.


Victim 6, B. K., Sandusky? They had six week before RFG's decision. Again, I'm not sure if it was the victim.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following User Says Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #13  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:28 PM
Reader's Avatar
Reader Reader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,981
In this 12/29 letter to the AG's office why does Amendola refer to the defendant JS as 'her' and 'herself'?

(the yardbird link)

Quote:
In Re: Commonwealth vs. Gerald Sandusky
Defendant's First Request for Pre-Trial Discovery
Dear Joe and Jonelle:

This office represents the named. Defendant in the above-captioned
criminal action, and, on her behalf, and pursuant to Rule 573(b)(1) of the
Pennsylvania Rules of Criminal Procedure and Brady v. Maryland, 373 U.S. 83,
83 S. Ct_ 1194, 10L, Ed. 2d 215 (1963), hereby requests disclosure of the
following items and information material to our client's case:

Quote:
Any and all scientific reports, the results of the analysis or
examinations conducted on any specimens or objects or upon the
Defendant herself regardless of the location of the specimens examined or
the process by which they were obtained for analysis, including but not
limited to the following:
Quote:
Copies of all medical/psychological records/examinations and all
other materials related to the accusers, which the Commonwealth has
referred to as Victim Nos. 1 through 10 inclusive
, which were conducted
pursuant to the investigation and/ or allegations related to the charges filed
against the Defendant in this matter;

Quote:
A list and diagram of the location or locations of each object
or specimen of physical evidence recovered or found and from
whom it was taken or received before being taken into custody by
any Commonwealth agent, police officer, any agent of the police or
any other investigator and which was submitted for examination;
specifically the precise location where latent fingerprints, cartridge
cases, spent bullets and/ or impressions trajectories thereof were
found;

Her/herself; psych/medical records of all victims 1-10; cartridge cases; bullets??
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Reader For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:34 PM
Reader's Avatar
Reader Reader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
First, the prosecution might be okay on spousal privilege: http://pennacrimlaw.com/spousal-priv...ve-to-testify/



The request, in regard to the 1998 incident, says:

There was further reporting prepared on this incident that a
psychological evaluation was conducted and a report prepared by John P. Seasock, a psychologist, of an unknown individual.


Victim 6, B. K., Sandusky? They had six week before RFG's decision. Again, I'm not sure if it was the victim.
Right, from your link on privilege:

(4) in any criminal proceeding in which one of the charges pending against the defendant includes murder, involuntary deviate sexual intercourse or rape.

We had discussed this exception before in a former thread.

For the psych/medical records request, see my next post.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Reader For This Useful Post:
  #15  
Old 02-10-2012, 08:05 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reader View Post
In this 12/29 letter to the AG's office why does Amendola refer to the defendant JS as 'her' and 'herself'?


Her/herself; psych/medical records of all victims 1-10; cartridge cases; bullets??
Knowing a little bit about how Amendola's office is run, I think it was a typo. He first blamed his secretary for this fiasco:

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/a...ublishing.html

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article...icleid/4284031

He is a very good lawyer.

I'd suspect the others are boiler plate language. It is included generally to cover everything.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #16  
Old 02-10-2012, 08:34 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post
JJ: This probably doesn't matter, but just to add to your bank of historical knowledge about Gricar, here you go:

You said, "As far as I know, Patty Fornicola (PEF) has no relatives in Ohio...."

Might not be any longer. But in 2002, one of Gino's daughters was living in Ohio (married name):

"Cristina Brandt of Westerville, Ohio...."

From Gino's obit, at:
http://www.obitcentral.com/obitsearc...pa-centre1.htm
That is about as close to Cleveland as Pittsburgh is. That is a cousin. Gino lived in Toledo, but that was before Patty was born.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following User Says Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #17  
Old 02-10-2012, 08:51 PM
pinktoes pinktoes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
That is about as close to Cleveland as Pittsburgh is. That is a cousin. Gino lived in Toledo, but that was before Patty was born.
Like I said, it might be of no import. I just appreciate your being a stickler for the facts. And thought you'd want to know that Patty F did, in fact, have a relative living in Ohio. Could matter to you someday to know that; or not. Doesn't matter to me, but it could matter someday. Who knows?
  #18  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:09 PM
pinktoes pinktoes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
Is this the psychological we're trying to figure out? The one in Amendola's Motion to Compel that refers to the 1998 incident and says, "...There was further reporting prepared on this incident that a psychological evaluation was conducted and a report prepared by John P. Seasock, a psychologist, of an unknown individual. The Attorney General's response to Defendant's discovery request failed to provide this psychological evaluation report prepared by Dr. Seasock and to identify the patient...."

Could be anybody involved in the incident. Just seems commonsensical that if it were Sandusky, he'd know that and that Amendola wouldn't particularly want further documentation on it.

link to the full pdf:
http://www.yardbird.com/pdfs/Sandusk...ion_2-6-12.pdf

BTW, Seasock specializes in sex abuse victims and does a lot of forensic psychology. I've seen his name about at professional conferences here and there, as well as in court cases in PA. Never met him; know nothing about his reputation.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to pinktoes For This Useful Post:
  #19  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:27 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post
Like I said, it might be of no import. I just appreciate your being a stickler for the facts. And thought you'd want to know that Patty F did, in fact, have a relative living in Ohio. Could matter to you someday to know that; or not. Doesn't matter to me, but it could matter someday. Who knows?
You are casting too wide a net. The cousin doesn't live near where Wiley disappeared (Hinckley Township) and might not have been living there in 1985, when Wiley disappeared.

The cousin happens to be living within about 10 miles of one of RFG's nephews. Is that significant? No.

We also saw, over the past summer, the "Utah Mystery Man" that bore a facial resemblance to RFG. His eyes were a different color and he was two inches taller. For days, we had to go through that.

Can we just be a bit conservative in trying to find links between these things? It adds to the value of the board.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following User Says Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #20  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:33 PM
pinktoes pinktoes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
Good old Joe. JJ: Did Joe tell you that the addition of those newspapers to his client's expungement orders were his secretary's fault? If so, that doesn't even make sense in the context of the other quote in the link you provided. He said that expunging a criminal record should extend to the media. So, he slipped those newspaper names into the expungement orders, figuring (correctly) that the judges wouldn't read them very closely.

That was corrected by the judges. (And so was Joe) He tried to pull a fast one. From your link:

"Attorney Joe Amendola, who represents the defendants, had added the two newspapers to the standard expungement orders he prepared for the judges’ signatures. The judges apparently signed without reading.

Amendola explained the background to the unorthodox addition to the standard expungement order. He said that an earlier client was having trouble finding employment despite having her criminal record expunged. Prospective employers Googled her name and found a 1992 Collegian article detailing her crime.

“What’s the sense in having your record expunged if anyone can Google you and it comes up,” he said."

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/a...ublishing.html
________________

BTW, it has been posted here hasn't it that Amendola was the defense attorney for another child sex offender in that area? The one I know of is Christopher G. Lee, of Boalsburg Mansion in Boalsburg. Amendola represented him. Mike Madeira, within his legal discretion as DA, gave Lee an ARD and Lee was allowed to have his criminal record expunged. (Amendola has experience in expunging things.). But, there's still a trace of it on the vile, hard-to-expunge-unless-you-can-slip-it-by-the-judge Internet. Like here:

"...Christopher G. Lee, a Harris Township supervisor and Boal Mansion CEO, was represented by Amendola after he was charged with three counts of indecent assault on 8-and 10- year-old boys. Lee entered an accelerated rehabilitative disposition program in which he did not enter either a guilty or not-guilty plea...."

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/11/1...#storylink=cpy

There are photos around of Paterno with Lee, too. Another child predator who runs with the monied crowd in State College.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to pinktoes For This Useful Post:
  #21  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:38 PM
pinktoes pinktoes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
You are casting too wide a net. The cousin doesn't live near where Wiley disappeared (Hinckley Township) and might not have been living there in 1985, when Wiley disappeared.

The cousin happens to be living within about 10 miles of one of RFG's nephews. Is that significant? No.

We also saw, over the past summer, the "Utah Mystery Man" that bore a facial resemblance to RFG. His eyes were a different color and he was two inches taller. For days, we had to go through that.

Can we just be a bit conservative in trying to find links between these things? It adds to the value of the board.
We can. I just don't want to miss anything. And thought you might appreciate the info since you took the time to tell me I was wrong about Patty having relatives in Ohio. Had you not said that, I wouldn't have bothered to correct that info. I just want to make sure when we're stating facts, we've got 'em straight. If they're out of range for readers, then readers should ignore me. Otherwise, if I know or feel like checking the facts, or correcting them, then that's how I roll.

Now, I'll try to stay more on the straight and narrow. But no blinders on. This case is still in the fact-gathering phase.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to pinktoes For This Useful Post:
  #22  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:47 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post
Is this the psychological we're trying to figure out? The one in Amendola's Motion to Compel that refers to the 1998 incident and says, "...There was further reporting prepared on this incident that a psychological evaluation was conducted and a report prepared by John P. Seasock, a psychologist, of an unknown individual. The Attorney General's response to Defendant's discovery request failed to provide this psychological evaluation report prepared by Dr. Seasock and to identify the patient...."

Could be anybody involved in the incident. Just seems commonsensical that if it were Sandusky, he'd know that and that Amendola wouldn't particularly want further documentation on it.
He may want the report because it is exculpatory. Sandusky might have never seen it. If there was a report saying Sandusky is perfectly normal, that could explain why RFG didn't prosecute. That is a bit unlikely, but it is possible.

Conversely, it might be negative, and Amendola wants to figure out how to defend against it. While no in anything criminal, I've had some opinions/letters used in that context.

Quote:

BTW, Seasock specializes in sex abuse victims and does a lot of forensic psychology. I've seen his name about at professional conferences here and there, as well as in court cases in PA. Never met him; know nothing about his reputation.
He still could be looking at an alleged perpetrator.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #23  
Old 02-10-2012, 10:35 PM
J. J. in Phila's Avatar
J. J. in Phila J. J. in Phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post
We can. I just don't want to miss anything. And thought you might appreciate the info since you took the time to tell me I was wrong about Patty having relatives in Ohio. Had you not said that, I wouldn't have bothered to correct that info. I just want to make sure when we're stating facts, we've got 'em straight. If they're out of range for readers, then readers should ignore me. Otherwise, if I know or feel like checking the facts, or correcting them, then that's how I roll.

Now, I'll try to stay more on the straight and narrow. But no blinders on. This case is still in the fact-gathering phase.
Well, the same obituary showed that PEF had a cousin in Texas, and there was a sighting of RFG in TX in 8/05. It has been ruled out, but there is even a photo; FBI photo analysis said it wasn't him. PEF thought it could have been him. I still have people saying it is him. Is that connected? Probably not.

Now there are some things that are more strongly coincidental, but those things point to walkaway. They certainly are not proof that RFG walked away. If he did, is it somehow related to Sandusky. Maybe, but maybe not.

A few months ago, someone did that (and it wasn't me). Laid it out. I noted a few other points that the new poster didn't realize was out that strengthened it. It isn't proof. It is consistent with the theory that RFG walked away, but it is not proof.
__________________


What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?
The Following User Says Thank You to J. J. in Phila For This Useful Post:
  #24  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:48 AM
StellarsJay StellarsJay is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 284
I went looking for today's photo of Dorothy Sandusky. She looks as thought th epast few months have been hard.
http://www.statecollege.com/news/loc...aring-1001788/
The most interesting photo is number 8, with Amendona and Jerry.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to StellarsJay For This Useful Post:
  #25  
Old 02-11-2012, 12:51 AM
katydid23's Avatar
katydid23 katydid23 is offline
Verified Juanette
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 24,850
Did anyone hear Sandusky WHINING today because he is not allowed to visit with his grandchildren. OH WELL...I guess that's what happens when you rape little boys. Too bad.
__________________
“Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to katydid23 For This Useful Post:
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7 wfgodot Jerry Sandusky General Discussion threads 589 02-10-2012 06:03 PM
Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #6 wfgodot Jerry Sandusky General Discussion threads 642 12-19-2011 02:43 PM
Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #5 wfgodot Jerry Sandusky General Discussion threads 596 12-09-2011 07:10 PM
Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #4 wfgodot Jerry Sandusky General Discussion threads 602 11-29-2011 02:06 PM
Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #3 wfgodot Jerry Sandusky General Discussion threads 590 11-21-2011 10:22 AM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:36 PM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!