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Old 02-25-2012, 05:42 PM
JoeFromLB JoeFromLB is offline
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Unhappy CA- 11-year-old Long Beach girl taken to hospital after fight dies

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_20042805

Updated: 02/25/2012 01:30:16 PM PST

LONG BEACH -- An 11-year-old Long Beach girl who got into an after-school fight with another girl died after being taken to a hospital by a family member, police said today.

Police withheld the girl's name and did not say where she went to school.

The girl was brought to an emergency room -- she was unconscious and not breathing -- by family members about 5:50 p.m. Friday, police said. Police said the girl underwent surgery, was placed in intensive care in critical condition and declared dead about 8:50 p.m., police said.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:58 PM
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11-year-olds fighting to the death? Scary.
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Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Most interesting classic unsolved murder cases

This thread currently has over 350 cases with a brief synopsis of each and we are still adding additional cases.

You can access a spreadsheet that lists the cases in alphabetical order with the page & post number so that you can locate a particular case you may be interested in. It also contains links to any cases that already have a thread on WS.

Many cases do not have a thread. Please feel free to start one in the appropriate forum if you would like to look into one. Should you start a thread on one of these cases, please let me know so that I can add the link to the spreadsheet.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBBcGVid0lmUHc
=======================================

Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Cold But Not Too Old Murder Case List

This is a listing of newer but still cold cases. As with the above thread we will be adding as we go along. Most of these cases will probably have threads. If you do start a new one, please let me know so I can add the link to the spreadsheets. The spreadsheets may be accessed from the links below.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mlNV2lSQ1dDWHc

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBIaHRnR1g0SEE
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:53 PM
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11 year old girl beating another one to death? My God, that poor family.

I am axiously awaiting more information.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:46 AM
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My prayers are with this poor girls family.

This is beyond a tragedy ...
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:08 AM
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Did she get hit on the head with something or fall and hit her head? What killed her? Its crazy for 11 year olds to be in hand to hand combat! There really isn't much information in the article to know what exactly happened.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:20 AM
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LONG BEACH - An 11-year-old girl died after a preplanned fight with another girl, also 11, in an alley near Willard Elementary School, police said at a press conference held Saturday night.

The girl, identified by friends as Joanna Ramos, sustained undisclosed injuries after the off-campus fight Friday evening. Both of the girls then walked away.

Some time later, family members noticed Ramos wasn't feeling well and drove her to a local emergency room. She underwent surgery Friday, was initially listed in critical condition, but was pronounced dead shortly before 9 p.m. Friday.

(snip)

Police have not made any arrests, but have interviewed the girl who engaged in the fight with Ramos. Deputy Chief Robert Luna said there were about seven onlookers present at the time, and they have been interviewed as well.

Police did not say what prompted the fight, but friends said it was over a boy.

(snip)

Police said the students were involved in an after-school program, and at some point left the campus and went to an alley near the K-5 school to fight. Police did not disclose the nature of the injuries Ramos sustained, but said no weapons were involved in the fight.

(snip)

The Los Angeles County Coroner had not yet performed an autopsy as of Saturday night. The Coroner will determine the exact cause of death.


http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_20042805
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Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Most interesting classic unsolved murder cases

This thread currently has over 350 cases with a brief synopsis of each and we are still adding additional cases.

You can access a spreadsheet that lists the cases in alphabetical order with the page & post number so that you can locate a particular case you may be interested in. It also contains links to any cases that already have a thread on WS.

Many cases do not have a thread. Please feel free to start one in the appropriate forum if you would like to look into one. Should you start a thread on one of these cases, please let me know so that I can add the link to the spreadsheet.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBBcGVid0lmUHc
=======================================

Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Cold But Not Too Old Murder Case List

This is a listing of newer but still cold cases. As with the above thread we will be adding as we go along. Most of these cases will probably have threads. If you do start a new one, please let me know so I can add the link to the spreadsheets. The spreadsheets may be accessed from the links below.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mlNV2lSQ1dDWHc

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBIaHRnR1g0SEE
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:50 AM
MsWeatherwax MsWeatherwax is offline
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Sadly, I'm not as shocked as I should be. The daughter of a family friend was kicked to death when she was 11, by two 11 year old girls. They served less than a year in prison, and their community had a 'welcome home' party when they were released (which the authorities kindly saw fit to do on the anniversary of her death).

You'll be relieved to hear that this is in the UK, mind you.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:23 PM
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Joanna Ramos. RIP.

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Old 02-26-2012, 01:40 PM
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Her aunt, Celina Cervantes, said Joanna complained of a headache after the fight and that the girl's mother rushed her to the hospital. Joanna had no visible wounds. She underwent surgery and was placed in intensive care.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...mily-says.html

I am guessing that this was a bleeding issue... either something that just took a bit longer in the brain... or else something like the spleen with the headache being separate from the fatal injury.

Nobody being knocked to the ground definitely makes it a bit harder to imagine such a serious injury though.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:47 PM
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a fight that bad at 11 yrs of age over a BOY!
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:52 PM
JoeFromLB JoeFromLB is offline
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Coroner ruling: Homicide

Blunt force trauma to the head. The girl died after surgery for a blood clot on the brain.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/27...-school-fight/
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:16 PM
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Over a boy! I am having trouble wrapping my head around this.

I'm 43 years old and had no interest in boys at 11. Times are changing indeed. Her poor family.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:31 PM
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The fight seemed very minor. I'm wondering if the girl had some kind of pre-existing condition that was exacerbated by the fight. Such as an aneurysm.
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Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Most interesting classic unsolved murder cases

This thread currently has over 350 cases with a brief synopsis of each and we are still adding additional cases.

You can access a spreadsheet that lists the cases in alphabetical order with the page & post number so that you can locate a particular case you may be interested in. It also contains links to any cases that already have a thread on WS.

Many cases do not have a thread. Please feel free to start one in the appropriate forum if you would like to look into one. Should you start a thread on one of these cases, please let me know so that I can add the link to the spreadsheet.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBBcGVid0lmUHc
=======================================

Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Cold But Not Too Old Murder Case List

This is a listing of newer but still cold cases. As with the above thread we will be adding as we go along. Most of these cases will probably have threads. If you do start a new one, please let me know so I can add the link to the spreadsheets. The spreadsheets may be accessed from the links below.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mlNV2lSQ1dDWHc

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBIaHRnR1g0SEE
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:40 PM
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This is just so sad. They interviewed little Joanna's family on our local news channel this morning and they said she had also been the victim of bullying by this girl..All over a boy! What a waste!

~RIP~ Joanna
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:55 PM
JoeFromLB JoeFromLB is offline
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http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_20062079

Police have said the fight in an alley after school on Friday lasted less than a minute, involved no weapons and that no one fell to the ground.

Villanueva (the victim's mother), 41, said that before Joanna lost consciousness, she told her mother the other girl was her "enemy" but offered no further explanation.

"I said, what happened, and she said, 'a girl punched my head,' and I said why, and she said, 'I don't know Mom. We are enemies,'" Villanueva recalled. "I asked her, you don't have any enemies. Why, Joanna? She told me, 'I don't want to talk, I'm tired and I want to go to sleep.'"

"After that she didn't say anything no more," the mother said.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:01 PM
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I have been and will continue to be unable to follow this one. My heart breaks for Joanna's family.

I have an 11yr old DD. She is not all hot into boys and boyfriends yet, but many of her classmates are.

I have no doubt that the girl she fought with had no intent for this fight to end little Joanna's life, but there it is, a stupid act over a stupid boy, and one life is ended, another forever changed.

Just so sad. I needed to say that, and now I will move on down the forum list. This one just hits waay too close to home for me.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:33 AM
JoeFromLB JoeFromLB is offline
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http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_20065351

A fellow student at Willard said Tuesday night it was the 11-year-old who had planned the fight and Ramos had no choice but to face off in an alley located across the street from the school and directly behind the 11-year-old's apartment building. The location of the fight was in view of the school's playground, where children raced around laughing and playing late Tuesday afternoon.

"She was making faces at her" and goading Ramos to fight, the classmate said.

She and several other children at the school said the fight ended when the 11-year-old grabbed Ramos on either side of her head, by her hair, and yanked Ramos' head down while slamming her knee into the 10-year-old's forehead, above her nose.

Children who witnessed the fight said Joanna had blood around her nose and lip. By the time Joanna checked into the after-school program, however, there was no blood and no other obvious signs of trauma, school and police officials have said.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:37 AM
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Belinda Belinda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromLB View Post
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_20065351

A fellow student at Willard said Tuesday night it was the 11-year-old who had planned the fight and Ramos had no choice but to face off in an alley located across the street from the school and directly behind the 11-year-old's apartment building. The location of the fight was in view of the school's playground, where children raced around laughing and playing late Tuesday afternoon.

"She was making faces at her" and goading Ramos to fight, the classmate said.

She and several other children at the school said the fight ended when the 11-year-old grabbed Ramos on either side of her head, by her hair, and yanked Ramos' head down while slamming her knee into the 10-year-old's forehead, above her nose.

Children who witnessed the fight said Joanna had blood around her nose and lip. By the time Joanna checked into the after-school program, however, there was no blood and no other obvious signs of trauma, school and police officials have said.

Well, that makes a little more sense. I was so confused as to how she died from the fight. What a crying shame. Poor thing. A waste of a great human life.
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Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Most interesting classic unsolved murder cases

This thread currently has over 350 cases with a brief synopsis of each and we are still adding additional cases.

You can access a spreadsheet that lists the cases in alphabetical order with the page & post number so that you can locate a particular case you may be interested in. It also contains links to any cases that already have a thread on WS.

Many cases do not have a thread. Please feel free to start one in the appropriate forum if you would like to look into one. Should you start a thread on one of these cases, please let me know so that I can add the link to the spreadsheet.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBBcGVid0lmUHc
=======================================

Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Cold But Not Too Old Murder Case List

This is a listing of newer but still cold cases. As with the above thread we will be adding as we go along. Most of these cases will probably have threads. If you do start a new one, please let me know so I can add the link to the spreadsheets. The spreadsheets may be accessed from the links below.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mlNV2lSQ1dDWHc

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBIaHRnR1g0SEE
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:10 PM
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HMSHood HMSHood is offline
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The girl had some preexisting condition for her to die. The fight was rather bloody for 11 year old girls. They don't like that from what I remember. However, this does not excuse what happens. Over a boyfriend at age 11? That's really messed up! I wonder about the perps in this case, like their upbringing or any behavior problems they had.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:18 PM
JoeFromLB JoeFromLB is offline
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There was a neurosurgeon from Cedars-Sinai Hospital in L.A. who said that a blow to the head could "absolutely" cause what happened to this girl. There doesn't have to be a pre-existing condition for this to happen. At the right angle and force, a blow to the head can tear a vein on the surface of the brain, causing bleeding and a fatal clot.
The other girl slammed Ramos' head into her knee. That's a very violent collision, much worse than a punch.

I'll look for that link with the surgeon's opinion.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:51 PM
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^^^

To be able to strike like that takes practice and will, it seems to me. This 11 year-old was a kid who knew how to handle herself in a streetfight and was looking to injure. And transferring out of the school, holing up in her apartment and so on look like attempts to manage the aftermath. What an awful story.

s
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:04 PM
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I wonder what is going to happen with the 11-year-old. I feel there needs to be some serious consequences for her. I realize it was a planned fight, but this girl obviously knew what she was doing and intentionally did the most harm she could. How did she know how to do that at her age? I wouldn't know how to do that and I'm 49.
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Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Most interesting classic unsolved murder cases

This thread currently has over 350 cases with a brief synopsis of each and we are still adding additional cases.

You can access a spreadsheet that lists the cases in alphabetical order with the page & post number so that you can locate a particular case you may be interested in. It also contains links to any cases that already have a thread on WS.

Many cases do not have a thread. Please feel free to start one in the appropriate forum if you would like to look into one. Should you start a thread on one of these cases, please let me know so that I can add the link to the spreadsheet.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBBcGVid0lmUHc
=======================================

Forum: Jury Room
Thread: Cold But Not Too Old Murder Case List

This is a listing of newer but still cold cases. As with the above thread we will be adding as we go along. Most of these cases will probably have threads. If you do start a new one, please let me know so I can add the link to the spreadsheets. The spreadsheets may be accessed from the links below.

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mlNV2lSQ1dDWHc

Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBIaHRnR1g0SEE
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:17 PM
JoeFromLB JoeFromLB is offline
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Take this with a grain of salt, but there are comments on some sites that the girl is Black. The victim was Hispanic. Do the politically sensitive math.

There's a lot of tension here between the two groups, as there is in many large cities.

"Grain of salt", because there's still no official description of the other girl.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:22 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belinda View Post
The fight seemed very minor. I'm wondering if the girl had some kind of pre-existing condition that was exacerbated by the fight. Such as an aneurysm.
Nope, since any pre-existing conditions should have been noticed in autopsy.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:24 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
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Originally Posted by HMSHood View Post
The girl had some preexisting condition for her to die. The fight was rather bloody for 11 year old girls. They don't like that from what I remember. However, this does not excuse what happens. Over a boyfriend at age 11? That's really messed up! I wonder about the perps in this case, like their upbringing or any behavior problems they had.
A blow to the head can kill without any pre-existing conditions. I am not sure why that surprises people since people have died from blow to the head, even in official sporting events such as boxing.
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