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George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads All closed discussion threads about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin.Not open for posting- but there is plenty of reading.


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  #101  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Nali87 View Post
It doesn't matter if he was doing the right thing, which is discutable, until up to a certain point. Even if you want to give George Zimmerman the right to be suspicious of every black kid who walks into his neighbourhood, the question then becomes, "if you think the person is a criminal and he's up to no good and he's on drugs", do you get out of your car to follow him? And if you're the one following someone whom you haven't SEEN commit an actual crime, doesn't that give that person to be suspicious of you and to defend himself against someone that he perceives as a stranger following him AT NIGHT? And in the end you end up shooting that person you followed, then there should be a THOROUGH investigation and the one who pulled the trigger should be questioned at length by the police. George Zimmerman didn't even have to take a routine drugs and alcohol test. You betcha they did those test on Trayvon.
In the USA where many folks carry a gun, it is kind of suicidal to follow a suspicious stranger, first in a car and later by foot ,especially when you remain silent, do not holler from your car to ask them about their business. And also in the dark and in a very quiet area with no other folks walking by by.
That is a good way to get shot yourself.
Or may be GZ was just observing him for a bit from the car to make sure he did not have a gun.
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  #102  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
Hopefully, after this, you would rethink such a move. If, that is, one believes Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose and was shot for it.
Well heck, after this, we all have to rethink walking down the sidewalk in a visiting neighborhood?
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  #103  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Nali87 View Post
It doesn't matter if he was doing the right thing, which is discutable, until up to a certain point. Even if you want to give George Zimmerman the right to be suspicious of every black kid who walks into his neighbourhood, the question then becomes, "if you think the person is a criminal and he's up to no good and he's on drugs", do you get out of your car to follow him? And if you're the one following someone whom you haven't SEEN commit an actual crime, doesn't that give that person to be suspicious of you and to defend himself against someone that he perceives as a stranger following him AT NIGHT? And in the end you end up shooting that person you followed, then there should be a THOROUGH investigation and the one who pulled the trigger should be questioned at length by the police. George Zimmerman didn't even have to take a routine drugs and alcohol test. You betcha they did those test on Trayvon.
BEM: Wasn't this around 7:00 PM? I forget about the time change, so it would have been dark.

Several people reported seeing young black males either breaking into other homes or their own home. To ignore a young black male that seemed suspicious, looking around at houses, would be wrong, especially if the ignorance is done in an effort to appear politically correct. IMO
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  #104  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
Well heck, after this, we all have to rethink walking down the sidewalk in a visiting neighborhood?
Is his father's girlfriend's house actually within the gated neighborhood?
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  #105  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:10 AM
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...some of his behavior very likely added suspicion... Mr. Martin wasn't some child he was a 17 year old man... missteps on both parties...

Thanks for staying polite with the baseless speculation. I suspect that by the time Fox News and [you know who] and Beck and the freepers are done with this case, Trayvon Martin's name will be dirt, and GZ will be the big hero of defending property from, you know, wink wink, Those Bad People. A quick google search confirms this well underway. They are already making the most outrageous claims you could even possibly imagine.

If the far right can "sluttify" the reputation of a white female college grad crime victim advocate, does the reputation of a black teenager walking the streets even have a chance?
  #106  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Nali87 View Post
I don't think this was to Trayvon's family. It was to George Zimmerman's friend who apparently has lost a son as well?
Yes, I know.

The friend of his they've been showing video of, the gray haired man, he said he lost a son to prescription drug abuse - or misuse. Seemed that it had been a while ago though.
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  #107  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
Hopefully, after this, you would rethink such a move. If, that is, one believes Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose and was shot for it.
Do not think so. If a stranger who has been behaving in a menacing threatening way so I fear for my life, I surely would give him a nice souvenir when he gets too close to me and before he tries to harm me.
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  #108  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by marauder View Post
...some of his behavior very likely added suspicion... Mr. Martin wasn't some child he was a 17 year old man... missteps on both parties...

Thanks for staying polite with the baseless speculation. I suspect that by the time Fox News and [you know who] and Beck and the freepers are done with this case, Trayvon Martin's name will be dirt, and GZ will be the big hero of defending property from, you know, wink wink, Those Bad People. A quick google search confirms this well underway. They are already making the most outrageous claims you could even possibly imagine.

If the far right can "sluttify" the reputation of a white female college grad crime victim advocate, does the reputation of a black teenager walking the streets even have a chance?
They (Fox and their ilk) are probably hunting like crazy to find bad things on the parents of Trayvon and the rest of his family and going back a couple of generations
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  #109  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
Is his father's girlfriend's house actually within the gated neighborhood?
Yes, it is.
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  #110  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by flourish View Post
RBBM

This is not true. He was a 17 year old boy. *sigh*
OK, let us end the silly bickering and call Trayvon an adolescent. That is 10 to 19 years per WHO.
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  #111  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:46 AM
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I doubt they are taking Zimmerman's side, they don't want the law messed with....I'm from a very red state and I know how they think. They're really only fueling the race fire and I hope they stop and let this be investigated properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marauder View Post
...some of his behavior very likely added suspicion... Mr. Martin wasn't some child he was a 17 year old man... missteps on both parties...

Thanks for staying polite with the baseless speculation. I suspect that by the time Fox News and [you know who] and Beck and the freepers are done with this case, Trayvon Martin's name will be dirt, and GZ will be the big hero of defending property from, you know, wink wink, Those Bad People. A quick google search confirms this well underway. They are already making the most outrageous claims you could even possibly imagine.

If the far right can "sluttify" the reputation of a white female college grad crime victim advocate, does the reputation of a black teenager walking the streets even have a chance?
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  #112  
Old 03-24-2012, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
I doubt they are taking Zimmerman's side, they don't want the law messed with....I'm from a very red state and I know how they think. They're really only fueling the race fire and I hope they stop and let this be investigated properly.

This is what I don't understand about the people who are supporting the "Stand your ground law". Instead of supporting Zimmerman and blaming Trayvon for this, they should be pointing out how this isn't a case of stand your ground, and the law is being improperly applied her to defend Zimmerman. Which is true. They should be demanding that he be put on trial and screaming from the roof tops that this isn't a case of stand your ground.

But instead they are making him a rally point to defend this law and are incorrectly arguing that it applies to this incident. What they are doing is going to turn more people against this law and is going to lead to it's repeal.
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  #113  
Old 03-24-2012, 05:10 AM
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Utah Jazz Point Guard Earl Watson Wears Hoodie in Support of Trayvon

During a day when the Miami Heat took a team photo wearing hoodies to show support for Trayvon Martin and New York forward Carmelo Anthony showed off an image of himself wearing a hooded sweatshirt, Watson changed his main Twitter image to a photo of him wearing a white hoodie.

---------------------------------------

"The hoodie was just support for him and his family.

It's tough, because there's me losing my little brother in a car accident when I was 17.
Let alone that family losing their kid to a brainless, insensitive, act of violence.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsja...e-sad.html.csp

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/earl_w....html?nav=page

Earl is a good dude and his heart is definitely in the right place.
Hopefully more celebrities will really look into the situation and become familiar with it... that's challenging with schedules.
The NBA players especially right now have really tight schedules.
Playing 4 out of 5 days... I can't fault Earl for not having all the details correct.

I can just be grateful that he cared enough to make the effort.
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  #114  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
Why did he try to lose GZ? He wasn't being chased when he started running, he was coming toward Zimmerman.
According to his g/f, Trayvon was trying to lose GZ because he had noticed that GZ was following him and he was scared. His g/f also said that she asked Trayvon to run away and he told her that he'd just walk fast and eventually Trayvon said that he thought he'd lost him but soon after that he told her that he (GZ) was right behind him (TM).

On GZ's 911 call he also tells the dispatcher that Trayvon is running away...that's when GZ ran after him after having proclaimed earlier in the call that "these a**holes always get away". Within 3 minutes, Trayvon was dead.
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  #115  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:12 AM
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Zimmerman's lawyer: 'Stand your ground' doesn't apply in Trayvon Martin case



A lawyer for the man at the center of the Trayvon Martin death investigation said Florida's "stand your ground" law doesn't apply to the shooting that killed the unarmed teen.
"In my legal opinion, that's not really applicable to this case. The statute on 'stand your ground' is primarily when you're in your house," said Craig Sonner, attorney for George Zimmerman. "This is self-defense, and that's been around for forever -- that you have a right to defend yourself. So the next issue (that) is going to come up is, was he justified in using the amount of force he did?"


http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/24/justic...ing/index.html




I think they are going to have a hard time proving self defense also.

I wonder if there is something new that hasn't been released to the public yet that made them drop the stand your ground defense and go for straight self defense?
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  #116  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porkchop View Post
This is what I don't understand about the people who are supporting the "Stand your ground law". Instead of supporting Zimmerman and blaming Trayvon for this, they should be pointing out how this isn't a case of stand your ground, and the law is being improperly applied her to defend Zimmerman. Which is true. They should be demanding that he be put on trial and screaming from the roof tops that this isn't a case of stand your ground.

But instead they are making him a rally point to defend this law and are incorrectly arguing that it applies to this incident. What they are doing is going to turn more people against this law and is going to lead to it's repeal.
I think it is a very bad cowboy law. This is a country with plenty of hot heads, still some racism, constantly whipped up by the media with the fear/frenzy factors and very very easy access to a gun. With this license to kill, you have a perfect recipe for disaster.
And frankly with GZ even when they arrest him , and with this SYG statute in place, it still will be hard to argue without reasonable doubt that he did not fear for his life (think Pinellas jury) unless they drum up some better witnesses/better evidence. I put more faith on the Feds to convict GZ if they can make a hate crime out of it.

Last edited by rotterdam; 03-24-2012 at 07:10 AM.
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  #117  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by porkchop View Post
Zimmerman's lawyer: 'Stand your ground' doesn't apply in Trayvon Martin case



A lawyer for the man at the center of the Trayvon Martin death investigation said Florida's "stand your ground" law doesn't apply to the shooting that killed the unarmed teen.
"In my legal opinion, that's not really applicable to this case. The statute on 'stand your ground' is primarily when you're in your house," said Craig Sonner, attorney for George Zimmerman. "This is self-defense, and that's been around for forever -- that you have a right to defend yourself. So the next issue (that) is going to come up is, was he justified in using the amount of force he did?"


http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/24/justic...ing/index.html




I think they are going to have a hard time proving self defense also.

I wonder if there is something new that hasn't been released to the public yet that made them drop the stand your ground defense and go for straight self defense?
IMO they must have both realized how Baez it would look if they went with that theory.
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  #118  
Old 03-24-2012, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by princesspjs View Post
According to his g/f, Trayvon was trying to lose GZ because he had noticed that GZ was following him and he was scared. His g/f also said that she asked Trayvon to run away and he told her that he'd just walk fast and eventually Trayvon said that he thought he'd lost him but soon after that he told her that he (GZ) was right behind him (TM).

On GZ's 911 call he also tells the dispatcher that Trayvon is running away...that's when GZ ran after him after having proclaimed earlier in the call that "these a**holes always get away". Within 3 minutes, Trayvon was dead.
I have been thinking why Trayvon first walked up to the car and then moved away(running?) according to GZ. To check him out, I believe he said.
When I am walking somewhere and a car slows down , I would think that may be it is a friend or somebody that needs directions. You would slow down and/or walk up, expecting them to talk from the window or recognizing a friend. Nothing happened, just silence except for some unknown white guy yapping on his phone and who knows may be more guys in the car. I also think that a lonely black teenager is probably more wary of white male strangers for obvious reasons.
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  #119  
Old 03-24-2012, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rotterdam View Post
They (Fox and their ilk) are probably hunting like crazy to find bad things on the parents of Trayvon and the rest of his family and going back a couple of generations
Especially since Obama had the audacity to say anything about it you can bet they will be working overtime to drag this kid's name through the dirt and champion his killer.
You can pretty much set your watch by the talking heads of Fox News.
Their whole mission statement is to perpetuate the notion that white property owners are a put upon discriminated against segment of society surrounded by hostile media liberals and welfare minorities.
And the kind of folks who make up their audience who desperatley want to believe this kind of garbage certainly will.
Sampling the Right Wing Blogosphere since Obama's comments its a pity that these folks dont have the insight to recognize how unseemly the Right has become in seizing on anything to take a shot at this administration.
Even the blood of teenagers.
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  #120  
Old 03-24-2012, 08:20 AM
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Another day, another thread. I'm glad to see the discussion here and how all sides are behaving in a civil manner.

I will continue to read here, but I believe that at this point the discussion is going around in an endless circle. We all believe what we believe with sparse information (other than the 911 calls) to back them up.

I have my opinions, but have decided to go into lurkdom for a bit and wait for the investigation to be completed and charges/no charges made.

Once the investigation, the Sunshine Laws will kick in and a public report will be made. At that point, the Sunshine Laws will kick in and we will be inundated with documents (remember CA). At that point, we will no longer be subject to the whimsy of a lot of the MSM.
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  #121  
Old 03-24-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by porkchop View Post
Zimmerman's lawyer: 'Stand your ground' doesn't apply in Trayvon Martin case



A lawyer for the man at the center of the Trayvon Martin death investigation said Florida's "stand your ground" law doesn't apply to the shooting that killed the unarmed teen.
"In my legal opinion, that's not really applicable to this case. The statute on 'stand your ground' is primarily when you're in your house," said Craig Sonner, attorney for George Zimmerman. "This is self-defense, and that's been around for forever -- that you have a right to defend yourself. So the next issue (that) is going to come up is, was he justified in using the amount of force he did?"


http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/24/justic...ing/index.html




I think they are going to have a hard time proving self defense also.

I wonder if there is something new that hasn't been released to the public yet that made them drop the stand your ground defense and go for straight self defense?
The Stand Your Ground law simply means you don't have to retreat. It's an expansion of the Castle Doctrine meaning any where a person might be they can defend themselves. Now that's not to say other laws are cast aside just because of it. A person is still required to use reasonable care or they could be held accountable for any negligence that may transpire as a result of their actions...
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  #122  
Old 03-24-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kline View Post
Especially since Obama had the audacity to say anything about it you can bet they will be working overtime to drag this kid's name through the dirt and champion his killer.
You can pretty much set your watch by the talking heads of Fox News.
Their whole mission statement is to perpetuate the notion that white property owners are a put upon discriminated against segment of society surrounded by hostile media liberals and welfare minorities.
And the kind of folks who make up their audience who desperatley want to believe this kind of garbage certainly will.
Sampling the Right Wing Blogosphere since Obama's comments its a pity that these folks dont have the insight to recognize how unseemly the Right has become in seizing on anything to take a shot at this administration.
Even the blood of teenagers.
OMG.It has started already on the blogs(Beck's The Blaze for example). Fox pretty well laid off this story and until recently had one segment vs 44 segments on CNN during the same time period. Pres. Obama has done it now and the political war of mud slinging and insane Trayvon vilifying has started.
This has hit the European main media too. And the info is quite accurate and not very flattering for the USA..
"One murder too many?" is the headline on this one. You will have to run it thru the translator.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2668/...-te-veel.dhtml
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  #123  
Old 03-24-2012, 08:35 AM
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Evasion saves your life. That is what you teach your kids when a strange man is chasing them in a neighborhood. You don't teach your kids to stand there listening to a stranger.
I taught my kids not to give any information, not their name, in fact, do not answer. Strange adults questioning children and teens usually have an ulterior motive. Trayvon was not trespassing, he had a right to be there and NW captains do not have the right to ask. They can watch and contact LE.

It was creepy for GZ to chase Trayvon, imo.

All JMO
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  #124  
Old 03-24-2012, 08:38 AM
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It's not that I'm laying blame on Mr. Martin but it would be foolish to not recognize that some of his behavior very likely added suspicion to the situation Mr. Zimmerman was confronted with. Does this wash away Mr. Zimmerman's responsibility to conduct himself in a professional manner, no it does not. However given the totality of the situation it does demonstrate how various missteps on both parties fault likely lead to this unfortunate situation...

Again Mr. Martin wasn't some child he was a 17 year old man.
This thread is recognized by WS's as a crime against a child. Legally TM was a child.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by momshrink View Post
I taught my kids not to give any information, not their name, in fact, do not answer. Strange adults questioning children and teens usually have an ulterior motive. Trayvon was not trespassing, he had a right to be there and NW captains do not have the right to ask. They can watch and contact LE.

It was creepy for GZ to chase Trayvon, imo.

All JMO
Trayvon's much younger brother was home alone so it is possible Trayvon did not want to lead this stranger to know where he was going because of his brother. It does appear TM feared this man who was following him. jmo
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