FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[rossva]

IMO not condemning the cry by the Panthers to hunt down Zimmerman and "wanted dead or alive", kill or capture him shows silent approval.

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

Why should they? Do they belong to the same group? This isn't some religious group with an off chute like Islam and radical Islam. Why would they want to identify with them? It is none of their business.

[deelytful1]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

Here's a case from Miami that a judge dismissed based on the Stand Your Ground Laws. It was dismissed two days ago. The guy chased after a guy stealing car radios and stabbed him to death. All caught on tape too?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...s-self-defense

ETA: At least it went before a Judge to decide, I guess?

Wow, just wow... this sounds like vigilante justice to me! If this is how a judge is reading the law, can you imagine the effects on society from these kinds of rulings? Unreal... Apparently a radio is worth more than a life in Florida.

Thanks for finding this BTW

[Inabsentia]

Since so much speculation is going on I am going to offer two speculations on why Trayvon might have chosen what appears on the map to be a slightly less direct route home.
1. This is not his neighborhood, and all of the townhouses look much alike. In the rain and the falling dark, and being in some distress he simply got turned around.
2. If I were running from someone who
I had seen following me in a car I would take the route that got me off the street as fast as possible. No matter how direct the street route may be, and no matter how athletic I am, I cannot outrun a car, and GZ was in the car when Trayvon began running.

I also don't understand why some posters are being so much more critical of Trayvon's reactions than they are of George Zimmerman's ACTIONS. Reacting to a situation which is volatile and evolving affords less time and luxury to make careful and considered responses. George Zimmerman initiated these events, his choices should bear the burden of closer scrutiny. Jmo of course

[Talina]

Originally Posted by rossva

BBM In your opinion. Ducking under a porch, covering his face, when he notices he was being watched, is suspicious.

Is it possible that TM ducked under the porch because of the rain, put his hoodie up because of the rain, then proceeded to walk the rest of the way home?

Is it possible him putting his hoodie up had nothing to do with being watched and everything to do with it raining?

Is is possible that because recent break-ins were supposedly done by black male teens that GZ was quick to draw his own conclusion that TM was suspicious without giving any benefit of the doubt?

IMO

[songline]

Originally Posted by Talina

BBM

If you are referring to my post regarding this, that is not the context of what I said at all. Please re-read my post regarding what I saw the lady attorney say on this matter.

IMO

I did re read it thank you.

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by vlpate

A narcotics officer was at the scene - he was questioned at the station.


Which homicide case are you referring to?

Again, which homicide case? His injuries are in the initial police report.

Seriously, there is no homicide case I can find under the name George Zimmer. I'd like to read about a witness being coached to change her statement though? Was this on ABC?

The witness, who is a school teacher if I am not mistaken, did not use the word coached. She said the officer corrected her when she told him that it was Trayvon screaming. He corrected her and told her it was Zimmerman screaming.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhoo...ry?id=15907136

[LinasK]

Originally Posted by IzzyBlanche

Some Other People Who By Geraldo's Standards Are Asking to be Shot

@ the first picture

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...be-shot/50261/

I'm laughing at the shots of Ellen Page and Justin Bieber!!!

[momshrink]

Originally Posted by IzzyBlanche

Some Other People Who By Geraldo's Standards Are Asking to be Shot

@ the first picture

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...be-shot/50261/

Keep ET out of that neighborhood!

JMO

[lisalei321]

Can someone please bump Ynots post? My phone won't let me pull it from the closed thread

Sent from LG Esteem using Tapatalk

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by songline

I am not sticking up for GZ or for TM
but I am not going to pretend untill I really know
that GZ is guilty of murder.
It will be hard to know with the lack of proper reports.
and timely interviews

It does look like GZ was wound up.
And it also looks like TM could have taken a straight and
direct way home. not just come to the car and see who was following him.
something strange about that as well. If I am scared I go go go….

Oh, I agree. I don't think it's murder, I'm thinking more on the lines of negligent homocide. He was negligent for sure and there was a homocide. Did it have to happen is the question that should be asked and once GZ took pursuit his claim to stand your ground appears baseless and should be dismissed. Apparently more people agree with this than not.

I'm troubled by the fact that he has never made a public statement through his attorney to TM's parents but called a neighbor and left a message of appreciation. The options were GZ's alone and it's clear he just did not choose to follow the right path. jmo

[Talina]

Originally Posted by LinasK

Well I have a fairly new Iphone- less than 6 mo. old, it's never powered "off", so if I miss a call, yes it does show up as a missed call if they don't leave a voice message.

My phone shows missed calls too if it is not powered off. I have an android, smart phone. Very similar to the Iphones. I never power it off but sometimes I am remiss in charging the battery so then it powers down itself. If that happens, and it has, I do not know if I have missed a call. It is also during that period of time that incoming calls go straight to voice mail. A caller will not hear the phone ring, it will just immediately be picked up by voice mail.

That is what Trayvon's father said happened when he called. He said the call went straight to voice mail. So for a call to immediately go to voice mail, one of several things happened. The battery was dead (or removed), the phone was powered down manually or the phone was broken, or for some other reason it was not receiving service. In that situation, an incoming call on the missed call log is not going to show up. The phone never rang. It does not know it missed a call.

IMO

[csziggy]

Originally Posted by vlpate

Which homicide case are you referring to?

A human being was killed - that is a homicide. While charges have not been filed, this is still a homicide case. Why are you trying to deny that it is?

Homicide definition:
The killing of one human being by another human being.

Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.
More: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

[annalia]

Originally Posted by Talina

Is it possible that TM ducked under the porch because of the rain, put his hoodie up because of the rain, then proceeded to walk the rest of the way home?

Is it possible him putting his hoodie up had nothing to do with being watched and everything to do with it raining?

Is is possible that because recent break-ins were supposedly done by black male teens that GZ was quick to draw his own conclusion that TM was suspicious without giving any benefit of the doubt?

IMO

It was reported that he did it to get out of the rain, that he ducked under an awning to get out of the rain.

A duck would be in and out, I would imagine anyone following him or seeing him would be smart enough to put two and two together, it's raining, a kid ducks under an awning. No major suspicious conspiracy there.

where the teen had ducked under an awning to get out of the rain.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tray...-questions.php

[Inabsentia]

Originally Posted by LinasK

Well I have a fairly new Iphone- less than 6 mo. old, it's never powered "off", so if I miss a call, yes it does show up as a missed call if they don't leave a voice message.

I am not sure what your point is. I, too, have a less than six month old iphone, sometimes I choose to power it off, sometimes the battery dies. In both of those cases missed calls do not show when I turn the phone back on.

[porkchop]

Originally Posted by vlpate

A narcotics officer was at the scene - he was questioned at the station.


Which homicide case are you referring to?

Again, which homicide case? His injuries are in the initial police report.

Seriously, there is no homicide case I can find under the name George Zimmer. I'd like to read about a witness being coached to change her statement though? Was this on ABC?

This is a homicide case. When a human kills another human it is a homicide. Whether it is justifiable or not is up to the law. But once again when a human kills another human it is a homicide.

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by annalia

It was reported that he did it to get out of the rain, that he ducked under an awning to get out of the rain.



http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tray...-questions.php

I don't believe that was mentioned in Zimmerman's call though? That didn't come out until later, if I'm not mistaken? I would love to see Zimmerman's statement he wrote the night this happened to see if it's written there?

[Talina]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

I don't believe that was mentioned in Zimmerman's call though? That didn't come out until later, if I'm not mistaken? I would love to see Zimmerman's statement he wrote the night this happened to see if it's written there?

I'd like to know how we even know that TM did, in fact, duck under a porch or awning.

(other than GZ saying one way or the other)

[flourish]

Originally Posted by songline

That is smart. BBM
At some point he wald to the car. se the 911 call

No, at some point, he allegedly walked to the car, according to his killer, and only according to his killer.

[annalia]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

I don't believe that was mentioned in Zimmerman's call though? That didn't come out until later, if I'm not mistaken? I would love to see Zimmerman's statement he wrote the night this happened to see if it's written there?

Oh sorry, I misunderstood then.

I was just saying there's nothing suspicious about a kid ducking under an awning in the rain.

[songline]

Originally Posted by flourish

No, at some point, he allegedly walked to the car, according to his killer, and only according to his killer.

When the call was made there was no killing. so there was no need to tell them a strange story.

[rossva]

IMO, were that the case, he would have mentioned it to his gf while on the phone with her. It's much more likely, IMO, he didn't run home because he wanted to circle behind this man who was following him to confront him as to why he was being follwed.

Originally Posted by Belinda

I think Trayvon was afraid of leading the strange man home to his little brother and so didn't run home on purpose. He knew this strange man was following him. He was probably trying to protect his brother.

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Talina

I'd like to know how we even know that TM did, in fact, duck under a porch or awning.

(other than GZ saying one way or the other)

One thing a member, HiHater, pointed out last night, was a picture that shows that the property has cameras? I would like to know where all the cameras are? If they are by the entrances, I would think that they would have caught Trayvon walking into the complex? Zimmerman made comments about the clubhouse in his call, would the cameras from a clubhouse have caught anything? Did the police even check the videotapes? Maybe we would be able to see where Zimmerman's gun was when he jumped out of the car? Or maybe it would have caught Zimmerman walking back to his car when Trayvon jumped him from behind? The big question is again, did LE even check them? And have they been taped over now because they didn't?

ETA: I am not saying that Trayvon jumped him from behind... it is just something that has been reported as Zimmerman's claims.

[Inabsentia]

Originally Posted by songline

That is smart. BBM
At some point he wald to the car. se the 911 call

As per the 911 call, at some point he walked TOWARD the car. Nothing definitive about how close he really got to the vehicle. If I were being followed by a vehicle I might walk a little closer to it to get a look at the driver. Why you ask? I might be hoping it was someone I recognized, such as a neighbor of my Dad's fiancee. I might have hoped that the guy was a wearing a security uniform, thus allaying my fears that I was being followed for nefarious purposes. I might approach in an attempt to see if the person needed assistance of some kind. Perhaps, George should have called out to Trayvon at that point and identified himself. He didn't, and whatever Trayvon saw didn't make him feel secure, becuse he ran away at that point. Cue my speculation in my previous post. Imo of course.

[annalia]

Originally Posted by IzzyBlanche

Some Other People Who By Geraldo's Standards Are Asking to be Shot

@ the first picture

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...be-shot/50261/

That's hilarious.

I like the last one

O'Reilly and Rivera, gangstas

[flourish]

Originally Posted by songline

When the call was made there was no killing. so there was no need to tell them a strange story.

Unless one is an overreacting, gun-toting, nosy person trying to justify their "suspicions." It's already overzealous and inappropriate for a "neighborhood watch" person to carry a gun.
jmho, etc.