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Old 03-24-2012, 06:21 AM
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Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BorgQueen View Post
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Perhaps he didn't have to indicate that he would like that kind of "gift". It has been established that TLM was sexually abused as a child. We don't know by how many men, as it isn't relevant to this trial. I suspect it was an ongoing thing in her life. It is possible that she thought that is what all men like/want. Perhaps she felt that her mother (CM) gave her (TLM) to these men that violated her as a "gift", and she wanted to give her man (or, the man she thought was hers) the same "gift".
It has been established that this woman has psychological problems. And her problems seem to be what Derstine was using as part of his defence of the accused.
Without a doubt, TLM is warped, so maybe she just assumed that a little girl is something that every man wants. Either scenario is possible though
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:38 AM
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Possibly because he was arrogant, had disdain for them, and thought they were pieces of trash, that he was better than them, and would be seen as more believable?

It's not like he didn't KNOW what happened to "the missing girl" when he did that interview.

Derstine admitted today MTR helped dispose of Tori.

That makes ALOT of what he said in that May 19th interview, very suspicious, full of psychopathy, IMO.

To jump on the bandwagon of blaming "the missing girl's" mother, in light of the fact that he knew damn well the child was laying dead under a pile of rocks, is very disturbing.

JMO
Thanks for that reminder WG. I think some forget that when watching this interview. Victoria was already dead when this interview was taken and the accused knew where she was.
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
Thanks for that reminder WG. I think some forget that when watching this interview. Victoria was already dead when this interview was taken and the accused knew where she was.
I was wondering if he was mentioning Tara because he was fishing for information about the investigation.

Or maybe he was just trying to establish that he did not know Tara and therefore did not have any ties to Tori, unlike TLM.

When TLM saw that Tara was Tori's mom I wonder if she recognized her and told MTR.
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Barsinister View Post
He also told her according to TLM he would not be seeing her for a while - that does not seem so odd when two murderers part for awhile when they think the heat is on but it also would seem appropriate if she scared the beejesus out of him. On the other hand if he was so guilty of rape and murder you might think he may want to keep his only witness closer for a time.
He had work to do, imo. Like covering his tracks, perhaps? Afterall, didn't he tell her she had nothing to worry about because she didn't do anything wrong according to TLM? (paraphrasing)
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:02 AM
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He had work to do, imo. Like covering his tracks, perhaps? Afterall, didn't he tell her she had nothing to worry about because she didn't do anything wrong according to TLM? (paraphrasing)
I wonder if he told her that while she was at the detention center and if they have that on tape. If he did that doesn't fit too well with the innocent bystander defence.

And why would he have gone to visit her at the detention cener anyway? Being compassionate and wanting to be there to support a screw up is one thing, but if you were there when that person brutally killed a beautiful little girl wouldn't you want to get as far away from them as possible?
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:21 AM
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IMO it seems that both MTR and TLM had somewhat prepared themselves for the possibility they would receive visits from the police about the murder....wonders if that is part of the thrill for them...the cat and mouse game with the police. Is it possible that they both thought prison and 3 squares was a good deal?
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Barsinister View Post
Hmmm been following this trial closely and read all your postings here. It seems Dilbert and I are "Odd Men Out". I agreed with all of his/her postings and quite frankly could not see the logic in some of the others. In my humble opinion TLM is a pathological, drug addicted liar. You can only take what she says with a grain of cocaine and try to sift tru the truth from the fiction. If I owned a gun I could easily want to use it on her but that would be too easy - and life my good friends does not mean life here in good old Canada - this sweet piece of work could be out in her early 30's --- how'd you like to run into Ms. TLM when she is feeling edgy???
I wouldn't want to run into either of them. <shudder> I think we all know what TLM is capable of and someone like Rafferty who is accused of the same crime including sexual assault on a child, makes one want to hide their children until they're 40. What kind of monster covers up a murder? We know he was there. His lawyer admitted it in court.

I hope this jury uses common sense!!!!!

Bring back the death penalty and get these monsters off our streets.
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoofer View Post
IMO it seems that both MTR and TLM had somewhat prepared themselves for the possibility they would receive visits from the police about the murder....wonders if that is part of the thrill for them...the cat and mouse game with the police. Is it possible that they both thought prison and 3 squares was a good deal?
Not for Rafferty, imo. He thought he could outsmart everyone including the cops. He thought he was such a good liar and manipulator. He cried in court when the charges were read to him in May 2009.

http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/Artic...aspx?e=1576508


TLM, on the other hand, probably found a nice comfy home in prison and adjusting very well. Just keep her away from microwaves. <shudder>
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ardy View Post
TLM was given the mandatory sentence of life. She is ineligible for parole for 25 years. She can apply for parole after 25 years, but it would be unlikely parole would ever be granted by the parole board.

If she were to be granted parole, she would beclosely monitored for the rest of her life, and have to report to a parole officer. Any breach of parole conditions and she would be returned to custody.

She will never be "free" again..........and it is unlikely she will ever be out of custody.

The only hope she has is a transfer to a medium or minimum security prison after many years of proving that she has rehabilitated herself and is worthy of trust.

What happens to MTR depends on the results of this trial.
BBM: IMO, TLM, and criminals like her, can never be rehabilitated. I know that sounds extremely pessimistic, but, I just think that some criminals have genetic abnormalities, and that is not something that can be fixed.

JMO
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Hello_Kitty View Post
I know this probably won't happen, but I hope the hell MR takes the stand to explain this
The prosecution would have a wonderful time with him on the stand. Now that would be entertainment.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy.faithfull View Post
I wonder if he told her that while she was at the detention center and if they have that on tape. If he did that doesn't fit too well with the innocent bystander defence.

And why would he have gone to visit her at the detention cener anyway? Being compassionate and wanting to be there to support a screw up is one thing, but if you were there when that person brutally killed a beautiful little girl wouldn't you want to get as far away from them as possible?
He was more scared of her talking then of the police seeing him with her. (I couldn't find a chicken so I had to use a turkey--he's both anyway, )
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ChaChaCha View Post

So TLM is self-admittedly bi .... not surprised actually since many inmates will turn to members of their own sex for comfort let's say and TLM had been incarcarated in juvie off and on for most of her teenage years.

Thanks for the links .... wow! Shipway and TLM were like peas in a pod ....

Here is an interesting sentence ... keeping in mind that this is Shipway's first offence in big people court

Shipway, who sat quietly and with little expression, was sentenced to five years in prison for stabbing Nicholas, 23, who died in the parking lot of the Second Stage housing complex for women in south London on Aug. 10, 2010.

She got FIVE YEARS for murder!!! Manslaughter mind you .... but TLM got LIFE.

This is also interesting - there were two men charged with her as accessories:

In March, Doxtator and Doxtator-Ireland each received the equivalent of two-year sentences for accessory to manslaughter.

In other words, they got off with time served....Great article - Shipway's life in many ways parallels TLMs.

JMO
BBM: What exactly is going on with the Canadian Justice System, when a murderer gets 5 years, and accessories get 2 year sentences?

Totally, 100% wrong.

Canadians need to stand up against these outrageous sentences.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:08 AM
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When TM admitted on the stand that JG ripped of $400 worth of Oxy, did she say who from?
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
BBM: What exactly is going on with the Canadian Justice System, when a murderer gets 5 years, and accessories get 2 year sentences?

Totally, 100% wrong.

Canadians need to stand up against these outrageous sentences.
Sometimes child molesters don't even do time in prison...which is utterly rediculous considering the impact they have on the victims. And the youth sentences are rediculous as well IMO as some of the youth are so warped rehabilitation is just not going to happen.IMO ie look at the fine example with TLM as a youth. Had she been labelled and monitored appropriately she would not have been able to do what she did to Tori. Any genious working in youth detention with TLM could have predicted this outcome with TLM. It must be so frustrating to staff at these places as they open the doors to these animals and wish them well....as no doubt they know the next time they see them it will be for murder. IMO
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by daisy.faithfull View Post
It's possible that they could have through cell phone pings. I don't know if they would be able to know for sure what he was doing in each particular area though.

I've seen in American cases that a cell phone does not have to be used to be tracked because it is the battery that gives the location. So if MTR wasn't taking his battery out of his they could have a lot of information about MTR's whereabouts during that time.

But maybe his phone had to be used to track him. They've already said that they couldn't determine which Timmy's or car wash they stopped at, maybe thats because he didn't use the phone at either location.

I wonder if LE and the cell service provider could tell when the battery was removed? Probably not, but if they could MTR would have to explain why he did that if he wasn't concerned about being tracked.
Hmmm, I have a blackberry, as do many of the people I know.

When a blackberry is acting up, it is time to do a "hard reset" which involves removing the battery for a short period of time. I am guilty of doing this as well (gulp) from time to time. If I was driving on the 401 I might remove the battery and leave it out until I reached my final destination.

In my opinion we will hear testimony that MRs blackberry had been acting up and that is the only reason he removed the battery while driving. Having reached his destination he would then have time and two hands to reinsert the battery and boot up.

I am not going to comment on blackberry pings because I am pretty sure this will be addressed in a subsequent chapter of the trial. JMO
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:52 AM
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I asked this question yesterday, but I guess it got lost in the barrage of tweet relays. I know that before the trial the Crown has to disclose all the evidence they have against the accused so the defence can adequately map their strategy. Is the converse also true? Does the Crown know all the evidence the defence will use, i.e., the letters, journals, Internet profiles, etc.? If that's the case, the Crown should be anticipating the cross-examination and this line of defence, no?
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by snoofer View Post
attention was brought to this when the detective said the car was not locatable for two days...I wonder if the crown is going to FILL IN exactly where he was in his car and what he was doing. Maybe crown has info on exactly what he was doing. IMO

Wasn't he spending the weekend with his girlfriend?
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
BBM: IMO, TLM, and criminals like her, can never be rehabilitated. I know that sounds extremely pessimistic, but, I just think that some criminals have genetic abnormalities, and that is not something that can be fixed.

JMO
It would be nice if after MR's trial the Crown did a DOA application on her. Her numerous convictions for violent offences should be enough. I know this won't happen but I can dream.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:48 AM
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So MR's mother is wrapped up in all of this too? According to the interview on May 15th, he told the officer he went to Carol's home and gave her plants and furniture and bought her groceries? Why would his mother go there? To help transport the furniture that couldn't fit in his car? Wouldn't she be freaked out by the type of friends he was hanging with? Or is this a lie?

Just before 13:00 http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/lo...spx?ID=1675463
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:52 AM
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Who drives down rough country roads, or worse driving in that field while masturbating with one hand on the wheel?
Pedophiles who are thinking about the deed they are about to do...the deed they have probabably fantasized about for a long time.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:56 AM
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or she had plenty of time also. She had a few days and that would be plenty of time.
TLM didn't own the car or have access to it. She didn't own the Blackberry. She didn't own the knife or the gym bag. She did not have access to any of these items once the heat was on.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:02 PM
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MR: "I don't know what I was doing that day"

@ 8:03 http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/lo...spx?ID=1675463
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Barsinister View Post
We don't yet have any proof of a rape only TLM's version. Maybe the little girl who was frightened out of her mind and had driven in a car for 2.5 - 3 hours and had to go to the bathroom had wet her pants for all we know so far. Maybe sweet concerned "T" told her to take off her wet pants.

It was MR that is alleged not to have any pants on. TLM's testimony is evidence. It is proof of the prosecution's case. The jury will decide how much weight to give TLM's testimony, but it is direct evidence.

Hope that helps,

Salem
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
I wouldn't want to run into either of them. <shudder> I think we all know what TLM is capable of and someone like Rafferty who is accused of the same crime including sexual assault on a child, makes one want to hide their children until they're 40. What kind of monster covers up a murder? We know he was there. His lawyer admitted it in court.
(Respectfully snipped and BBM)

I'm troubled by the frequent use of the word "admitted" when referring to Derstine's questions in court. A defence attorney would never incriminate his own client. His questions to TLM where MTR's presence at the crime scene are merely suggestions as part of a hypothetical alternate scenario to the one previously claimed by her. If you're going to take that part of his questioning as an "admittance" of a fact, then you also have to take as facts the rest of Derstine's claims, such as these:
Quote:
Melanie Nagy‏@NagyCBC

Defence then suggest that #rafferty was no where near his car when Tori was killed.That he came back to find Tori dead.
Quote:
Melanie Nagy‏@NagyCBC

Defence then suggests that #rafferty tried to suggest taking Tori to a safe house and ending the situation.
You can't pick and choose which parts of Derstine's suggestions are fact and which are fiction. He admitted nothing. He was merely suggesting a different scenario.

As well, we have to consider Judge Heeney's instructions to the jury:
Quote:
Gerry Dewan ‏@GerryDewanCTV

Justice Heeney reminds jury says contents of a question is not evidence, only the contents of testimony are evidence
At this point in the trial, there has been no direct evidence presented to show that MTR was at the crime scene. Presumably there will be some to come.

JMO
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Last edited by antiquegirl; 03-24-2012 at 02:42 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:11 PM
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He said that TLM babysat for her next door neighbour. He said he met her and I believe this is the neighbour who was suspicious of him and submitted his plate information.

Just before 1:15: http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/lo...spx?ID=1675463
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