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  #51  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein View Post
ITA. It looks like the most likely scenario is that the police did the right thing. Seems far more likely than LE deciding to participate a conspiracy to cover for GZ because his dad is a retired judge and they hate black people.
Especially since the Judge was retired from Virginia.
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  #52  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:35 PM
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It really bothers me that GZ is a criminal justice student, very near achieving his degree, if his friend Joe is to be believed.

This tells me that GZ had a more than passing familiarity with the specifics of the stand your ground law and would know exactly what to say and portray in order to appear to fall within those specifics.
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  #53  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
But they still aren't under arrest. I was just saying that that sentence made no sense. If you get hurt on the job - first thing is they drug test you. I've never heard of anyone having to be arrested BEFORE LE drug tests them.

That's all.


JMHO
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  #54  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
They can legally breathalyze individuals without reasonable suspicion in states with compulsory consent laws when that individual is driving. When the police arrived, Zimmerman was not driving. I don't believe the compulsory laws work then. He would have had to voluntarily submit to them. JMO
BBM

And we have no evidence they even asked him to voluntarily submit to a test.

They just quote a law saying they could not force him to and that is the reason they did not test him.
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  #55  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:35 PM
Horace Finklestein Horace Finklestein is offline
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Originally Posted by Anadarko View Post
So what's the charge on that? Possession of a Zip-Loc? I hope my home is never searched....
It obviously had some residual drug in it...I don't think everything is a conspiracy against Trayvon.
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  #56  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
I'll help by putting the answers to these questions that also appear in the article:





My answers are in blue. Interesting that a prosecutor was called but told they didn't have enough evidence to arrest and that prosecutor just took their word for it. And that GZ wasn't tested for drugs because he wasn't arrested. Really? But yet on the road - LE will do a field sobriety test BEFORE anyone is arrested. So, that comment to me makes no sense about why he wasn't tested.




JMHO
Since he wasn't driving that wouldn't apply. But if the officers had any suspicion of drug or alcohol use, all they had to do was ask a judge for a warrant. Z was in public (public drunkeness?) and was involved in a shooting. All it would have taken would be for LE to ask him did you drink tonight, smell alcohol on him or make an observation that made it appear that he might have been drinking. That would give them the reasonable suspicion to request the warrant.
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  #57  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein View Post
We were deluged with misinformation about his being suspended because of tardiness, and told that a week long out of school suspension is perfectly normal for such a thing. I'm glad some actual facts are coming out.
IDK,, i think i'm going to go with the teacher at the school right now, rather than this reporter with an unnamed source...i think the teacher would know for sure why he was suspended...jmo
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  #58  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tlcox View Post
It really bothers me that GZ is a criminal justice student, very near achieving his degree, if his friend Joe is to be believed.

This tells me that GZ had a more than passing familiarity with the specifics of the stand your ground law and would know exactly what to say and portray in order to appear to fall within those specifics.
He's a criminal justice student, not a law student. CJ is a broad program that covers everything from law enforcement to the court system to the prison system. It more focuses on the offenders, why they do what they do, and how they make their way through the justice system. I'm not even sure SYG would be covered in any great way.

JMO as a former CJ major
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  #59  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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Here's a question:

Where was the gun while Trayvon was on top of GZ slamming his head repeatedly into the sidewalk?

Probably in GZ's waistband. Trayvon knew nothing of this gun. Even if he had found it while on top of GZ - then why didn't Trayvon grab it?

I'm so confused. GZ's slammed into a sidewalk - so where did GZ get grass stains on the back of his shrit from? Trayvon on top beating the carp outta GZ - yet GZ has a gun on him?





JMHO
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  #60  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
BBM

And we have no evidence they even asked him to voluntarily submit to a test.

They just quote a law saying they could not force him to and that is the reason they did not test him.
And we don't have evidence to suggest that they didn't conduct a field sobriety test. Or that Zimmerman was clearly sober and the officers didn't feel the need to do the test. Many people interacted with him that night; if one person thought he was under the influence of anything do you think it would come out by now?
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  #61  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:42 PM
Horace Finklestein Horace Finklestein is offline
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Originally Posted by tlcox View Post
It really bothers me that GZ is a criminal justice student, very near achieving his degree, if his friend Joe is to be believed.

This tells me that GZ had a more than passing familiarity with the specifics of the stand your ground law and would know exactly what to say and portray in order to appear to fall within those specifics.
You think they talk about the stand your ground law in criminal justice classes?
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  #62  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:43 PM
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I can't stop laughing at the "empty marijuana baggy"! Wouldn't that just be a baggy? Period? I carry small jewels and rhinestones in those little bitty ones. I wonder if that is what they mean? Or was it one of those snack baggies like I send M&M's and grapes in with my hubbys lunch?
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  #63  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
Here's a question:

Where was the gun while Trayvon was on top of GZ slamming his head repeatedly into the sidewalk?

Probably in GZ's waistband. Trayvon knew nothing of this gun. Even if he had found it while on top of GZ - then why didn't Trayvon grab it?

I'm so confused. GZ's slammed into a sidewalk - so where did GZ get grass stains on the back of his shrit from? Trayvon on top beating the carp outta GZ - yet GZ has a gun on him?





JMHO
It was most likely holstered in Zimmerman's waistband. What does it matter that Martin didn't know about the weapon? And who says he did not? Reports suggest that the weapon had one round missing from the chamber, and a full magazine. This could imply that Martin was grabbing the weapon when Zimmerman shot him.

The sidewalk is bordered by grass. It's possible that he landed partially on grass, partially on the sidewalk. And again, why is it so incredulous that Martin is beating Zimmerman up when Zimmerman has a gun, especially if Martin didn't know about the gun?
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  #64  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
He's a criminal justice student, not a law student. CJ is a broad program that covers everything from law enforcement to the court system to the prison system. It more focuses on the offenders, why they do what they do, and how they make their way through the justice system. I'm not even sure SYG would be covered in any great way.

JMO as a former CJ major
http://www.seminolestate.edu/crimina...edit/asdegree/

General law enforcement, correctional or correctional probation techniques and procedures.
Criminal investigations.
Community relations.
Emergency medical practices.
Legal issues.
Modern law enforcement technology.

Looks to me as if there was some coverage of legal issues. We cannot know how extensive that coverage is but since GZ also had a permit to carry, I am pretty sure that anything regarding lawful use of a weapon would have caught his attention. IMO MOO and all that jazz
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  #65  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
Lots of new and interesting details in this new article that Daisy posted from the Orlando Sentinel.

Here's a few that caught me:

Police have been reluctant to provided details about all their evidence, but this is what they've disclosed to the Sentinel:

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager
How would the school know that the "empty" baggie was an "empty marijuana baggie"? Are they specifically marked?
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  #66  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
How would the school know that the "empty" baggie was an "empty marijuana baggie"? Are they specifically marked?
If only there was a way to test the bag for drug residue...
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  #67  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeysmommom View Post
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

This is why all the confusion about being suspended.Why hide this?
This means Trayvon's father is lying about why he was suspended. I hope this family realizes horrible publicity works both ways. I am so disgusted right now, watching Al Sharpton on CNN - he's at a town meeting, in a church, asking for tithes for this family, insisting on $100 bills. You can't make this stuff up. Without the facts of the case, with all the hyperbole surrounding it by the media, CNN conducted a poll and 75% of those polled believe Zimmerman (with the 7 yr. old mugshot on the screen), believe he should be arrested. I'm beyond disbelief.
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  #68  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:46 PM
Horace Finklestein Horace Finklestein is offline
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
And we don't have evidence to suggest that they didn't conduct a field sobriety test. Or that Zimmerman was clearly sober and the officers didn't feel the need to do the test. Many people interacted with him that night; if one person thought he was under the influence of anything do you think it would come out by now?
I wouldn't think a drunk guy on drugs would be calling LE anyway. That would be a condition in which to avoid them. I doubt there was any probably cause for them to suspect drug/alcohol use.
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  #69  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:46 PM
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IMO GZ lied!
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  #70  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:47 PM
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I still haven't heard Mr. Zimmerman's supporters address this:

How can "self-defense" be argued when GZ was on the offense and in active pursuit?
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
And we don't have evidence to suggest that they didn't conduct a field sobriety test. Or that Zimmerman was clearly sober and the officers didn't feel the need to do the test. Many people interacted with him that night; if one person thought he was under the influence of anything do you think it would come out by now?
I am sure if they did a field sobriety test the PD and City would have said that to justify not asking for a drug or alcohol test.

Very little has been leaked by the PD. If I listened to a 911 tape and heard a guy slurring his words I would ask him to submit to a test.
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  #72  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tlcox View Post
http://www.seminolestate.edu/crimina...edit/asdegree/

General law enforcement, correctional or correctional probation techniques and procedures.
Criminal investigations.
Community relations.
Emergency medical practices.
Legal issues.
Modern law enforcement technology.

Looks to me as if there was some coverage of legal issues. We cannot know how extensive that coverage is but since GZ also had a permit to carry, I am pretty sure that anything regarding lawful use of a weapon would have caught his attention. IMO MOO and all that jazz
Yes, some coverage. That doesn't mean they're going to go nearly as in-depth into the law as someone in, say, a law program would. If it was mentioned at all, it was probably briefly mentioned because it appeared in some case they were looking at. To say that because he's a CJ student he knows the ins and outs of the law isn't necessarily true, to me. He could have just as easily found out as much about the law as anyone else with a CHP (or without, even).
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  #73  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
It was most likely holstered in Zimmerman's waistband. What does it matter that Martin didn't know about the weapon? And who says he did not? Reports suggest that the weapon had one round missing from the chamber, and a full magazine. This could imply that Martin was grabbing the weapon when Zimmerman shot him.

The sidewalk is bordered by grass. It's possible that he landed partially on grass, partially on the sidewalk. And again, why is it so incredulous that Martin is beating Zimmerman up when Zimmerman has a gun, especially if Martin didn't know about the gun?

BBM

What report? Do you have a link for this? First I've heard of it.

TIA
  #74  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein View Post
I wouldn't think a drunk guy on drugs would be calling LE anyway. That would be a condition in which to avoid them. I doubt there was any probably cause for them to suspect drug/alcohol use.
Lots and lots of drunk people call 911.
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  #75  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishee View Post
I still haven't heard Mr. Zimmerman's supporters address this:

How can "self-defense" be argued when GZ was on the offense and in active pursuit?
Because we don't know who started the physical fight, and there is evidence that Trayvon did. Following someone is not illegal and Trayvon could have escalated the situation by attacking GZ, at which point Trayvon would be on the offensive.
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