17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by deelytful1

People in this thread have theorized that Trayvon reached for GZs gun... No WAY. That is the first thing GZ would have said! He did not.
Now he's saying he walked back to his car and Trayvon came after him... okie.
Sigh....

BBM

Can you please link to his written or recorded video testimony? TIA

[songline]

Originally Posted by suzihawk

Nor do I.

What I do think is that GZ is an overzealous, bigoted, frustrated vigilante and wannabe cop that took matters into his own hands against the advice of authorities and the outcome speaks for itself.

GZ is imo
Overzelous, frusterated, cop wannabe YES. ITA
but, but, but, Bigoted Vigilante is a huge stretch,
and there is no evidence on that at all.

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by iluvmua

I thought that Tm was a young looking 17 year old when I saw the photo of him in the red Hollister shirt and now it turns out that photo is a couple of years old.

It's still the main photo. I was flipping channels last night and NG as well as my local news website put that photo front and center, right next to the mugshot photo of ZG. That is sensationalism, because the first thought anyone has when they know nothing of the case is 'here is a young sweet looking boy right next to this convict looking person'. I mean, it's a logical first impression.

We live in a country where a majority of people look and make decisions on first glance without reading any details. The media knows this.

[Dr.Fessel]

Originally Posted by iluvmua

None of them are squeaky clean. They paint TM one way and GZ another way.

Yeah I know. Zimmerman was 27 yrs old and armed and Martin was 17 yrs old unarmed.

[Footwarrior]

Originally Posted by Elley Mae

This is why I have no faith in the media, they have their reasons for this.

This is the picture of trayvon as it appeared naturally, so why are we seeing a picture of trayvon that is much lighter. This picture is from the link above.

Do you believe the darkness of a person's skin says anything about the person inside?

[Nana]

Originally Posted by cityslick

I agree he really shouldn't had made any comments, but to clarify, he wasn't even in office yet when the Caylee case happened.

He was when she walked

[CathyinTexas]

Judge Karen was on Dr. Drew again last night. She seemed emphatic this time, that Trayvon was a GOOD kid, emphasis hers. Being a judge she has the ability to look into his background, she also talked to her nephew and nieces who attend the same school and know him. She is convinced he was a good kid on the right path and doesn't deserve this character assasination. She pointed out he wasn't perfect or a saint, what teenager is/was, including all of us.

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

Yeah I know. Zimmerman was 27 yrs old and armed and Martin was 17 yrs old unarmed.

Until he potentially pinned Zimmerman underneath him and went for Zimmerman's gun.

[Dr.Fessel]

Originally Posted by cityslick

It's still the main photo. I was flipping channels last night and NG as well as my local news website put that photo front and center, right next to the mugshot photo of ZG. That is sensationalism, because the first thought anyone has when they know nothing of the case is 'here is a young sweet looking boy right next to this convict looking person'. I mean, it's a logical first impression.

We live in a country where a majority of people look and make decisions on first glance without reading any details. The media knows this.

Nancy Grace ran several new recent photos of Martin last night.

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by Nana

He was when she walked

There are a lot of perps who walk just like there are a lot of innocent people in jail. This is not about Caylee Anthony.

[Elley Mae]

Originally Posted by cityslick

It's still the main photo. I was flipping channels last night and NG as well as my local news website put that photo front and center, right next to the mugshot photo of ZG. That is sensationalism, because the first thought anyone has when they know nothing of the case is 'here is a young sweet looking boy right next to this convict looking person'. I mean, it's a logical first impression.

We live in a country where a majority of people look and make decisions on first glance without reading any details. The media knows this.

Exactly why a person on trial does not have to wear the striped/orange prison wear so not to prejudice the jury.

[iluvmua]

Originally Posted by songline

GZ is imo
Overzelous, frusterated, cop wannabe YES. ITA
but, but, but, Bigoted Vigilante is a huge stretch,
and there is no evidence on that at all.

and That's how they want GZ to be painted: as someone who was hellbent on killing an unarmed teenager for no reason at all.

Overzelous; Yes
Vigilante who is hellbent on killing someone: No

[CathyinTexas]

Originally Posted by Sensei

The fact of the matter is that Trayvon WAS an innocent kid. On the night that he was killed he was committing no more dastardly a deed than walking down the street.

I don't think that they have made up their minds that GZ has to pay, they have made up their minds that they are simply NOT going to live the rest of their life NOT KNOWING how their unarmed 17 yr old child ended up shot dead on the ground when he was NOT committing any crime, and why the man that shot him basically got a smack on the wrist and a don't do that again.

If this was your child, if your child would you not want to KNOW exactly what happened? These parents have not gotten any answers from an official source they are getting their information from the media, and that only from "leaks"

If it were my child I would NOT be satisfied with the way this was handled either, everything about it stinks to high heaven, everyone deserves to know exactly how this happened, and not just GZ's claims of what happened and mostly Trayvon's family deserves to know how this happened. IMO JMHO and stuff

I agree. It must make it worse to know now of GZ's violent past and crimes and realize that even with that, the police didn't arrest this murderer.

[Dr.Fessel]

Originally Posted by m00c0w

Until he potentially pinned Zimmerman underneath him and went for Zimmerman's gun.

Potentially pinned Zimmerman in a wrestling match for a split second until Zimmerman got the best of him then murdered him.

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by CathyinTexas

I agree. It must make it worse to know now of GZ's violent past and crimes and realize that even with that, the police didn't arrest this murderer.

What was Zimmerman convicted of?

I thought that we lived by innocent until proven guilty?

[Elley Mae]

Originally Posted by Footwarrior

Do you believe the darkness of a person's skin says anything about the person inside?

Absolutely not

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

Potentially pinned Zimmerman in a wrestling match for a split second until Zimmerman got the best of him then murdered him.

So why did he linger around if he was in such fear of Zimmerman?

[cityslick]

What about this idea that the gun accidentely went off in a struggle? I curious to hear thoughts on that?

[Sensei]

Originally Posted by iluvmua

And this is how this whole thing got started...... TM is the good kid and GZ is the bad guy who stalked and killed TM for no reason at all.

I'd call it manslaughter, but not murder.

And this is the crux of the case, throw as many adjectives in there that you want to we have few facts but the facts that we do have supports the narrative that you have written in your post

We know that TM was a relatively good kid, he got good grades, and had never been arrested for a violent crime, not in a gang, not a bully. No one said that he was perfect, since there are few kids that are perfect if any, and like all kids he had some scrapes and bad judgement, that's usually what kids do, they makes some mistakes and they learn from them and grow..

We know that he had committed no crime, nor was he doing anything that would lead GZ to be able to tell the PD that he appeared to be doing anything that would lead a reasonable person to suspect that he was intending to commit a crime.

Whe know that GZ was carrying a loaded weapon (I should not comment on that since it is legal, but because something is legal does not make it an intelligent thing to do) and that he called LE about a suspicious person

We know that GZ followed TM against every bit of training that he had when he got his permit to carry a weapon, or from neighborhood watch, and anywhere else that he might have take some classes.

We know that the unarmed teen is now DEAD, and GZ is saying that it was Self Defense....

So yes, the narrative that you posted fits very well....it is in fact up to GZ to prove that he used appropriate Deadly force in the situation that developed.

IMO JMHO and stuff

[songline]

Originally Posted by Footwarrior

Martin was an unarmed person walking where he had every right to be walking. Zimmerman didn't witness Martin committing a crime, or even doing something that a rational person would consider suspicious. He saw a young black man that matched with his stereotype of a burglar and came to the conclusion that Martin was a criminal. Zimmerman then acted as if he was chasing down someone that he had witnessed committing a crime.

BTW: The photo of the scary black kid giving the finger with both hands that is circulating on the web isn't a photo of Martin. It's just a photo intended to pander to racists.

hmmm?
So if you were a neighborhood watchperson that sees an unfamiliar male walking around in the rain in a quite neighborhood, you would not have the right to wonder, what is he doing walking around in the rain??? Especially when there is no 7/11 around the corner.
AS a watchperson I would be sitting in the car and following him too. Especially after my neighborhood would have had 8 robberies in 15 months. I would also have called 911.
GZ did not have to witness a crime first?
that does not make sense to me, and we do not know who threw the first punch.

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by cityslick

What about this idea that the gun accidentely went off in a struggle? I curious to hear thoughts on that?

If that's what happened, Zimmerman certainly screwed himself over when he first said "I shot him" to the police.

[Dr.Fessel]

Originally Posted by m00c0w

So why did he linger around if he was in such fear of Zimmerman?

once he got between the buildings he did not think Zimmerman would follow him so he stopped walking fast.

[csziggy]

Originally Posted by RANCH

GZ was on an errand not acting as a watchman. I don't believe that GZ has said that he exchange words with Trayvon. And I don't believe that blood was found near his vehicle because there's no reason for any blood to be there but I could be wrong.

From the edited Orlando Sentinel story - Zimmerman's account:

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

IMO the situation was not as clear cut as Zimmerman claims or as we'd really like it to be. I do think that Zimmerman, as the one who followed Trayvon, as the one who carried a gun, and as the one who did not clearly identify himself according to both his version and TM's girlfriend's version, is the person who began the incident and who escalated it to a killing.

It's frustrating to see people claim that if Trayvon had identified himself that nothing would have happened.

Well, IMO if ZIMMERMAN had identified himself - "Hey, I'm neighborhood watch, George, what are your doing here?" - Trayvon probably would have answered with and identification. But GZ reached for his cell phone - I think TM saw the gun in GZ's waistband and thought GZ was reaching for that. That would be a very good reason for TM to panic. I know I would if I had been confronted with a belligerent man who did not identify himself and who was armed.

All my opinion, of course.

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

once he got between the buildings he did not think Zimmerman would follow him so he stopped walking fast.

He started walking so slow that it took him ~6 minutes to walk 10 feet?

[Rob774]

Zimmerman did NOT have Trayvon's suspension sheet in his hand, so he had no prior knowledge of what he did before hand. If Trayvon was "looking in houses" Zimmerman would of said, "He's looking into homes..."

When Zimmerman says, Trayvon jumped him from behind, that should screams volumes to you guys. He's insulting your intelligence!!! He is, he's basically telling you, he pursued this guy, lost him, then Trayvon "magically" appeared from behind, hitting him, knocking him to the ground.

Seriously? Why would Trayvon need to go out of his way, less than 100 yards from his dad's place, get off the phone with his girlfriend, and attack Zimmerman from behind.

I'm not stating they didn't fight.. i'm saying the confrontation didn't start the way Zimmerman is saying it does, because it contradicts a series of aggressive moves by him. The following, the ignoring the dispatcher, the getting of his car, we know he did ALL those things. Now are are supposed to take make the wolf... a sheep all of a sudden. I just can't buy it.