17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[flourish]

Originally Posted by HiHater

Speaking of Trayvon being "on" something...

I think Zimmerman was either "on" something or he was already very agitated for a reason that had nothing to do with Trayvon.

There are 6 of his past calls that were released. He does not curse in any of those calls IIRC.

Why is he so upset this time? Why is he calling names and acting so out of "character"?

In at least one other call he specifically says I don't want to approach the person. What's different this time?

I hadn't thought about that. Great points I really wish he would have been tested the night of! I'd have loved to have known his blood alcohol level.
imo
hth

[rotterdam]

Originally Posted by m00c0w

I'm not sure what you mean. They are the ones who live in the house in front of where Martin was found.

Sometime ago some people(forgot who) reported hearing two shots instead of one . It was quickly debunked by LE. I guess you could get an echo between buildings. Anyway it is not relevant anymore.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

I think the electronic data record with whom Tray was on the phone and upto what time would be allowed. I would have a hard believing that Tray was lurking in the dark, waiting to pounce on GZ while talking to his GF.

I find that hard to believe to, but I can't figure out how he didn't get away from GZ. He obviously had a head start, and GZ couldn't see him. Maybe he stopped once he got between the condos and when GZ came around the corner they saw each other?

[vlpate]

I think it has to do with the recent rash of burglaries. One that sticks in my mind is the woman who was trapped in a room of her condo, on the line with 911 and she could hear the guys in her house. To think the burglars are getting that brave would cause a lot of angst in the neighborhood, IMO.

Those guys got away, IIRC.

Originally Posted by HiHater

Speaking of Trayvon being "on" something...

I think Zimmerman was either "on" something or he was already very agitated for a reason that had nothing to do with Trayvon.

There are 6 of his past calls that were released. He does not curse in any of those calls IIRC.

Why is he so upset this time? Why is he calling names and acting so out of "character"?

In at least one other call he specifically says I don't want to approach the person. What's different this time?

[Dr.Fessel]

This caller is close enough to hear Zimmerman talking to the officer. I think the second statement in bold I did is this guy hearing Zimmerman telling the officer the statement about nobody helping him. It is almost word for word what the officer put in his report.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...-teen-is-shot/


7:17 p.m. ET

Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "I’m looking out my deck, and someone is screaming 'help,' and I don’t know. … I heard a bang. I’m looking out my window, out my backyard, and someone is yelling and screaming 'help.' "

Dispatcher: "You are not the only person calling. We have more than one officer on the scene and another on the way."

Caller: "Oh, my God. I see the person now. I see him walking. There’s a man coming out and people coming out with flashlights. Oh, my God. I don’t know what he did to this person. I can see there is a man walking out with a flashlight right now."

Dispatcher: "Was it a male or female voice?"

Caller: "The man is up right now. Someone is coming over. I’m glad other people called."

Dispatcher: "We should be out there right now."

Caller: "I can open my window and hear it."

Dispatcher: "You can still hear it?"

Caller: "I don’t know what is happening. Someone is laying on the ground."

Dispatcher: "What’s happening? Someone is on the ground? Someone has been shot? Calm down, stay on the line with me. Like I said, we have an officer on the scene, and we have other officers on the line."

Caller: "Oh, my God. They better hurry up. Someone is on the ground. Oh, my God! I see out my back window, sidewalk, grass, something is really bad. There is a man out here with a flashlight."

Dispatcher: "Is this person laying down in the street?"

Caller: "No, it's from my back window."

Dispatcher: "So is the person laying down in the street or in the grass?"

Caller: "The grass. Oh, my God! I think there is another gentleman with a flashlight. ... I think police. Oh, my God! He shot, he shot the person.He says he shot the person. He said he shot the person."

Dispatcher: "Who saying they shot who?"

Caller: "The people out there, a guy is raising his hands up, he's saying he shot a person. I think it's a police officer that's with him right now. arrest - uh - oh, my God, why - why (inaudible)"

Dispatcher: "Our officer is there, he has somebody at gunpoint. They're going to handle the situation from here."

Caller: "Oh! Oh, my God, somebody would be shot!"

Dispatcher: "It's probably going to be best if you stay inside your home for the time being, OK?"

Caller:" I know. I can't believe somebody's killed. He was saying help. Why didn't someone come out and help him?"

Dispatcher: "Listen, we don't know if they been killed ..."

Caller: "Yes, the person is dead, laying on the ground."

Dispatcher: "Just because he's laying on the ground don't mean he's passed. We have an ambulance on the way, and we are probably going to pick him up and take him to the hospital."

Caller: "I didn't see cause it was too dark, and I just heard people screaming 'help me, help me.' And this person shot him! He was like wrestling with him, you know what I mean, on the ground, from what I can see it was very dark. The man didn't try to run away or anything. I don't want to be a witness or anything. I'm scared. Oh, my god, a young boy, I can't imagine, I haven't seen anyone killed. This is a nice neighborhood. Oh, my God, I'm too scared to live here."

Dispatcher: "You don't have to worry right now. We have many officers on the way. Two officers on scene right now, we are on scene, OK?"

-----

[HiHater]

Originally Posted by vlpate

I think it has to do with the recent rash of burglaries. One that sticks in my mind is the woman who was trapped in a room of her condo, on the line with 911 and she could hear the guys in her house. To think the burglars are getting that brave would cause a lot of angst in the neighborhood, IMO.

Those guys got away, IIRC.

In a few of the other calls, he explicitly mentions the recent burglaries, and he's not acting that way. JMO

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I find that hard to believe to, but I can't figure out how he didn't get away from GZ. He obviously had a head start, and GZ couldn't see him. Maybe he stopped once he got between the condos and when GZ came around the corner they saw each other?

omg thank you! I've been for days with this! He had seven minutes from the time Zimmerman made the 911 call to take his home - yet he is still 70 yards away (according to lawyer on CNN earlier), or 100 yds, according to his dad!

ETA: away from home.

[Wise Old Owl]

Originally Posted by jjenny

That's not Mary C.
This is Mary C.
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call6.wav

I've been talking about the call I posted. I really didn't think it was Mary C's call. But that was the one I've been going over and over and over all night.

I hear "get off of me" and "NO!" "OH MY GOD" and couple of "OH *****" (one of those is cut off when the caller is giving personal info - you can catch just the ***** when the audio comes back.

This is the one that the caller tells someone to "GET IN HERE". She is upstairs in the bedroom and she also tells the person to "GET UP HERE" - so that would mean the person is downstairs and she is upstairs.

Sorry, I wasn't more clear about which call.

JMHO

[rotterdam]

Originally Posted by RANCH

There may be another explanation why the gun was found with the chamber empty and the magazine full.

GZ may always loaded a round into the chamber of his gun and kept the magazine full. When he fired the fatal shot the gun could have worked as designed, cycled and loaded a round from the magazine.

GZ knowing that LE was coming decided to make his gun safe and ejected the magazine, pulled the slide back slowly and removed the live round from the chamber. He then took that live round and put it into the magazine. Now we have a full magazine again. And an empty chamber.

Ballistic tests will show if that round of ammunition was cycled thru the gun from marks that the ejector would leave on the case. JMO

Man, that is sneaky. But why would he have done that. Darn, now we had to add that to that 1 minute hiatus since nobody saw him fiddling with his gun.

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by HiHater

In a few of the other calls, he explicitly mentions the recent burglaries, and he's not acting that way. JMO

Did they stare at him, come to check him out, take off running?

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl

I've been talking about the call I posted. I really didn't think it was Mary C's call. But that was the one I've been going over and over and over all night.

I hear "get off of me" and "NO!" "OH MY GOD" and couple of "OH *****" (one of those is cut off when the caller is giving personal info - you can catch just the ***** when the audio comes back.

This is the one that the caller tells someone to "GET IN HERE". She is upstairs in the bedroom and she also tells the person to "GET UP HERE" - so that would mean the person is downstairs and she is upstairs.

Sorry, I wasn't more clear about which call.

JMHO

Yes, this is the one I am always referring to where it goes on for 45 seconds and then the shot is heard. The only thing the media plays is the scream and the shot.

[HiHater]

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

This caller is close enough to hear Zimmerman talking to the officer. I think the second statement in bold I did is this guy hearing Zimmerman telling the officer the statement about nobody helping him. It is almost word for word what the officer put in his report.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...-teen-is-shot/


Dispatcher: "It's probably going to be best if you stay inside your home for the time being, OK?"

Caller:" I know. I can't believe somebody's killed. He was saying help. Why didn't someone come out and help him?"


-----

Snipped by me...for space

Am I the only one who gets the impression from her call that the one who was screaming for help is the one who is now dead?

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by HiHater

Snipped by me...for space

Am I the only one who gets the impression from her call that the one who was screaming for help is the one who is now dead?

Clearly that's what she assumes. But that doesn't mean she is correct.

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl

No, you can hear the shot during the call. It was that same call that Dr. Fessel posted earlier. The shot is at :41 and she tells her friend to "get in here" AFTER that.

Lemme go find the link.....

BRB

That and the call you posted are not Mary C. She's even said in interviews that she called after she heard the shot and she and her friend went outside to investigate. They saw Zimmerman, who said to call 911. Mary went back inside and did just that.

ETA: I was just catching up, sorry. I see you've clarified this now.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

Man, that is sneaky. But why would he have done that. Darn, now we had to add that to that 1 minute hiatus since nobody saw him fiddling with his gun.

Okay you gun people, help me. Why does any of this matter? Not being snarky. I am clueless!

[Wise Old Owl]

Originally Posted by HiHater

Snipped by me...for space

Am I the only one who gets the impression from her call that the one who was screaming for help is the one who is now dead?

Yea, I can see that. Its ambigious without clarification. The sentence before it is talking about Trayvon (somebody killed) - so you would think the next two are also about him BUT she could have just heard someone screaming for help and assumed it was the one on the ground.

IDK - could go either way, since she wasn't asked a clarifying question.



JMHO

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

Man, that is sneaky. But why would he have done that. Darn, now we had to add that to that 1 minute hiatus since nobody saw him fiddling with his gun.

Why would he have done what? Which part of my scenario do you have a question about? What would take a minute to accomplish?

[francie]

Originally Posted by HiHater

Snipped by me...for space

Am I the only one who gets the impression from her call that the one who was screaming for help is the one who is now dead?

I agree 100%... it sounds to me like the screaming ends instantly after the gunshot. If GZ had been yelling help, why would he stop when the gun went off? Wouldn't he still need help? jmo.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl

Yea, I can see that. Its ambigious without clarification. The sentence before it is talking about Trayvon (somebody killed) - so you would think the next two are also about him BUT she could have just heard someone screaming for help and assumed it was the one on the ground.

IDK - could go either way, since she wasn't asked a clarifying question.



JMHO

She also said 'people' were yelling for help. Did she think both?

[Chris_Texas]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

I just can not believe that a school is allowed to release such info when it went nowhere, not even suspension . What is next , releasing drug info tests when the results were negative???

Also, he was accused of cheating on his fifth grade French spelling test but they couldn't prove it.

Okay, I made that up.

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

This caller is close enough to hear Zimmerman talking to the officer. I think the second statement in bold I did is this guy hearing Zimmerman telling the officer the statement about nobody helping him. It is almost word for word what the officer put in his report.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...-teen-is-shot/


7:17 p.m. ET

Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "I’m looking out my deck, and someone is screaming 'help,' and I don’t know. … I heard a bang. I’m looking out my window, out my backyard, and someone is yelling and screaming 'help.' "

Dispatcher: "You are not the only person calling. We have more than one officer on the scene and another on the way."

Caller: "Oh, my God. I see the person now. I see him walking. There’s a man coming out and people coming out with flashlights. Oh, my God. I don’t know what he did to this person. I can see there is a man walking out with a flashlight right now."

Dispatcher: "Was it a male or female voice?"

Caller: "The man is up right now. Someone is coming over. I’m glad other people called."

Dispatcher: "We should be out there right now."

Caller: "I can open my window and hear it."

Dispatcher: "You can still hear it?"

Caller: "I don’t know what is happening. Someone is laying on the ground."

Dispatcher: "What’s happening? Someone is on the ground? Someone has been shot? Calm down, stay on the line with me. Like I said, we have an officer on the scene, and we have other officers on the line."

Caller: "Oh, my God. They better hurry up. Someone is on the ground. Oh, my God! I see out my back window, sidewalk, grass, something is really bad. There is a man out here with a flashlight."

Dispatcher: "Is this person laying down in the street?"

Caller: "No, it's from my back window."

Dispatcher: "So is the person laying down in the street or in the grass?"

Caller: "The grass. Oh, my God! I think there is another gentleman with a flashlight. ... I think police. Oh, my God! He shot, he shot the person.He says he shot the person. He said he shot the person."

Dispatcher: "Who saying they shot who?"

Caller: "The people out there, a guy is raising his hands up, he's saying he shot a person. I think it's a police officer that's with him right now. arrest - uh - oh, my God, why - why (inaudible)"

Dispatcher: "Our officer is there, he has somebody at gunpoint. They're going to handle the situation from here."

Caller: "Oh! Oh, my God, somebody would be shot!"

Dispatcher: "It's probably going to be best if you stay inside your home for the time being, OK?"

Caller:" I know. I can't believe somebody's killed. He was saying help. Why didn't someone come out and help him?"

Dispatcher: "Listen, we don't know if they been killed ..."

Caller: "Yes, the person is dead, laying on the ground."

Dispatcher: "Just because he's laying on the ground don't mean he's passed. We have an ambulance on the way, and we are probably going to pick him up and take him to the hospital."

Caller: "I didn't see cause it was too dark, and I just heard people screaming 'help me, help me.' And this person shot him! He was like wrestling with him, you know what I mean, on the ground, from what I can see it was very dark. The man didn't try to run away or anything. I don't want to be a witness or anything. I'm scared. Oh, my god, a young boy, I can't imagine, I haven't seen anyone killed. This is a nice neighborhood. Oh, my God, I'm too scared to live here."

Dispatcher: "You don't have to worry right now. We have many officers on the way. Two officers on scene right now, we are on scene, OK?"

-----

Poor lady.

BEM: Here she says "people". I don't think she could know who was screaming, I think both. I think whomever won the struggle for the gun, shot the last one to yell help in that split second of realization. Did I read somewhere Trayvon said "you got me man". Something like that.

[Wise Old Owl]

I do think that call I posted caught most of the "fight" between them. The timeline is tight. We get 40 seconds of screaming.

Trayvon's phone dropped the gf's call at 7:16 (Incoming call @ 7:12 - lasted 4 moinutes)

LE is on scene at 7:17 - I'm giving benefit of doubt - getting car in park, getting out heading toward the people he's hearing............... so let's say 2 minutes

120 seconds from disconnect on Trayvon's phone to LE on scene. And we got 40 seconds of that on the call.

Yep, I kinda think most of the "fight" was caught on that call.



JMHO

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by vlpate

Poor lady.

BEM: Here she says "people". I don't think she could know who was screaming, I think both. I think whomever won the struggle for the gun, shot the last one to yell help in that split second of realization. Did I read somewhere Trayvon said "you got me man". Something like that.

If the bullet wound up where I believe it did, he wouldn't have had time to say much of anything.

[HiHater]

Originally Posted by jjenny

Clearly that's what she assumes. But that doesn't mean she is correct.

Funny you would say that, considering she was corrected by police:

Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.

The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.

So I think she heard the teenager screaming, and that's the story she stuck to. Hmmm...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhoo...6#.T3Kuy9U_LQ1

[christee]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I find that hard to believe to, but I can't figure out how he didn't get away from GZ. He obviously had a head start, and GZ couldn't see him. Maybe he stopped once he got between the condos and when GZ came around the corner they saw each other?

Maybe he stopped because he was told if he didn't stop he'd be shot.