17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

[iluvmua]

Originally Posted by marlame

BBM~ If you listen to the 911 call you hear GZ say OK but you also hear him still in pursuit. To me GZ saying OK meant, "yea...whatever"...

He then says have LE call me for my location when they arrive and hangs up. Why not stay on the line with 911? Hmmm...
If he was was really waiting as he was told he would not have been behind the houses but NEAR or IN his truck by the club house.

JMHO~

He did stay on the line the entire time.

Here is the 911 call in full:

George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted - YouTube

George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted - YouTube

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by Isabelle

If Wolfinger was in no way involved in the decision to not charge GZ, why did he feel the need to remove himself from the case because of a conflict of interest? Could it be because he knows GZ's dad?

I don't see where Wolfinger said he was "not involved" in the decision not to charge GZ. Reading the article, it appears he took umbrage to the allegations that he and the family met the night of the shooting - insinuating some sort of deal was made.

I'm not sure what difference it makes whether or not Wolfinger knows Zimmerman's dad? Does everyone that knows Wolfinger get a free pass for their family to go out and kill with abandon?

There's no denying cover-up happens, but GZ's dad has no authority over Wolfinger and he's not family, which, aside from BIG money and mafia, are the only instances in which I would entertain the idea that a DA would cover for something as serious as murder.

JMO

[TonyGatto]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

I really hope Trayvon busted his nose and got himself a few other good ones in while he was at it.

~jmo~

I agree with you. Because I feel that GZ totally instigated this and even if Trayvon ended up "attacking" him, in the eyes of the FLORIDA law, he had good reason to fight, he thought he was being followed and stalked and who knows what else.

[TonyGatto]

Originally Posted by belle3

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-investigation

Letter To Governor: State Probe Is Whitewash
2 Seminole Sergeants Blast An Investigation Of Brutality Complaints Against County Drug Agents.
May 16, 1992|By Robert Perez Of The Sentinel Staff

These are two members of LE accusing Wolfinger of a whitewash.

The three-page letter, signed by Sgts. Mike Messer and Ron Gilbert, blasts Seminole-Brevard State Attorney Norm Wolfinger and Florida Department of Law Enforcement Investigator John Doughtie for having an ''indifferent and lackadaisical attitude'' about the investigation.

[Boytwnmom]

it seems to apply to ONE type of analysis:

These standards have been established for all practitioners of the aural/spectrographic method of voice identification

If you are going to use this as proof that the experts are wrong then you should ensure the standards you cite are applicable to the methods used by the two experts. Absent that link, it is meaningless.

I also don't understand why it is so important to ndiscredit the two experts who used different methods to come to the same conclusions, one by negating it could be GZ and one by asserting it was TM. I would hope we are looking for truth. I don't know enough about voice recognition to intelligently argue whether a particluar method or practitioner is valid or less credible etc. and I suspect most of us are in the same boat.

In the same vein, was Beth Karras discussisng a particular method used? If so, which one? Both? Was her criticism of the findings or was it about admissability? Those are different things. Lie detectors are useful in an investigation but may not be admitted in court. Is she saying the methods they used were not the type admissable but other methods are? I'm just curious as to what her specific point was.

Originally Posted by jjenny

There are already posts on this thread that explain what would be admissible in court. But here are the guidelines from American Board of Recorded Evidence.

One of the most important:the speech rate should be similar to that of recorded sample. Such as, the recorded sample is screaming, not normal speech. I presume they are comparing screams on 911 tape to normal speech by Zimmerman when he called 911.
http://expertpages.com/news/american...comparison.htm

[Horace Finklestein]

Originally Posted by mikeysmommom

IMO YES Also IMO GZ might get charged to end the madness of the mob mentality even if he acted within the law.

That's what I'm afraid of. The momentum of the enraged masses may prove to be too much. People are demanding an arrest and unfortunately I think they may arrest GZ just to shut people up. Horrible, horrible precedent to set imo.

[kimpage]

Originally Posted by mfcmom

Interesting point made by Alan Dershowitz this evening on CNN. They should have done scrapings on the fingernails of Trayvon and of Zimmerman, as well as taken Zimmerman's clothes and shoes and tested for gun residue. It appears this was not done by Sanford PD>

More mistakes by the Sanford PD. I am so so shocked...NOT IMHO JMHO

[LC446]

Originally Posted by iluvmua

Then came the second encounter, according to Tracy Martin’s recollection of the detective’s account. Trayvon Martin appeared from behind a building in Zimmerman’s gated community, approached him and demanded, “What’s your problem, homie?”

When Zimmerman replied that he didn’t have a problem, Martin said, “You do now.” The unarmed teenager hit Zimmerman, knocked him to the ground, pinned him down and told him to “shut the [expletive] up.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...hhS_story.html

I have a real problem with Tracy Martin telling people (media etc.) only about the first encounter but not the second one.

Ok, here we go again. This article CLEARLY represents that Tracy Martin did NOT believe the officers version of events. He is relaying what was told to him by the officers. He is NOT saying that he believes there were two encounters.

I'm very confused about why you keep posting this story as if it is the true version of events, that Tracy believed it and purporting that Tracy is with holding information or lying when that is clearly NOT the case.

[belle3]

Originally Posted by belle3

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...y-sought-death

Prosecutor Tougher If Victim's White
A 'Sentinel' Study Finds State Attorney Norm Wolfinger Seeks The Death Penalty Less Often When Victims Are Minorities.
June 1, 1992|By Debbie Salamone And Lynne Bumpus Hooper of The Sentinel Staff

Sorry to quote myself, but look at the author of this article. coinky dink????

[mikeysmommom]

Originally Posted by gxm

An eye witness to the entire event would be helpful. Unfortunately, the only eye witness to the entire event that can tell his side of the story is GZ. Right now, all the so-called "evidence" against GZ isn't actually evidence. To the best of my knowledge, audio and/or video that has been "enhanced" by the media, the musings of "experts" who have been hired by the media, transcripts that have been "edited" by the media, and the opinions of family and/or friends who weren't actually present during the confrontation are not evidence. And that's pretty much all we've got at this point.

This case turns into more of a circus each day. And we don't need a circus. We need a serious investigation that is not tainted or influenced by the media hijinks swirling around it.

JMO, OMO, and

Between Mob and the Media it has become a mess IMO.

[marlame]

Originally Posted by iluvmua

He did stay on the line the entire time.

Here is the 911 call in full:

George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted - YouTube

This recording of the 911 call has been cleaned up compared to the one intially released by LE. And, No he did NOT stay on the line the entire time...at the end he asks 911 dispatch to have them call him when LE arrives in the area. If he had stayed on the line the entire time until LE arrived we would have heard the entire confrontation between GZ and Trayvon.

JMHO~

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by lillygator

could be the same for TM too....

I'm not worried about TM's history... I think we have heard everything already? His accounts have been hacked, his suspensions have been outed, etc... I'm sure we would have heard about any children if there were any out there...

TM didn't seem like that bad of a kid. He's had his stumbling blocks, made mistakes, but I've seen 1,000 times worse. He seemed like a really bright kid. Aviation is a complicated and complex career choice that he seemed to be really passionate about. He'll never get to fly the way he wanted to fly.

[TonyGatto]

Originally Posted by belle3

Sorry to quote myself, but look at the author of this article. coinky dink????

Oh snap!

[Concerned Papa]

Originally Posted by vlpate

When TM took off running, I believe GZ did get out of the car and try to follow behind TM to see where he was going, to "watch" him .... I don't think the verbiage is as important as it's being made out to be. When the dispatcher said, "we don't need you to do that", GZ said "OK". For me, the "OK" is more proof that he stopped following than anything else we have.

I believe GZ had the utmost respect in law enforcement, and so he obeyed the dispatchers request and headed back to his truck. Bringing up the incident 7 years ago when he had an altercation with a plain clothes officer will surely be the answer to that statement, and it doesn't negate everything he's done, consistently, for the past 7 years.

JMO

According to his father, GZ did NOT stop when asked. In fact, he went all the way down to the next street before turning back:

George found it odd the teen was walking in between the town homes on a rainy night, rather than on the street or on the sidewalk.

Police told George Zimmerman not to follow Martin, and asked him where he was. However, because he was behind the town homes he could not see the nearest address.

This is why, Robert Zimmerman claims, his son decided to keep following Martin, so he could obtain an address to give to police.

“George went to the next street, realized where he was and was walking to his vehicle”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/29...#ixzz1qdM7htEw

[legalmania]

Originally Posted by mfcmom

I thought they worked in Virginia?

Then they moved to Florida is how I understood it.

[iluvmua]

Originally Posted by marlame

This recording of the 911 call has been cleaned up compared to the one intially released by LE. And, No he did NOT stay on the line the entire time...at the end he asks 911 dispatch to have them call him when LE arrives in the area. If he had stayed on the line the entire time until LE arrived we would have heard the entire confrontation between GZ and Trayvon.

JMHO~

Yes, and then they BOTH hang up.

[Dr.Fessel]

Originally Posted by iluvmua

He did stay on the line the entire time.

Here is the 911 call in full:

George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted - YouTube

That is the same 911 call I have been listening to where one of the first words he slurs is besssssss address. He did not stay on the line the whole time or we would have heard the shot.

[iluvmua]

Originally Posted by marlame

This recording of the 911 call has been cleaned up compared to the one intially released by LE. And, No he did NOT stay on the line the entire time...at the end he asks 911 dispatch to have them call him when LE arrives in the area. If he had stayed on the line the entire time until LE arrived we would have heard the entire confrontation between GZ and Trayvon.

JMHO~

This is the FULL 911 call, it last 4 minutes and 12 seconds.

Please give me a link to the initial one released by the police then.

[mfcmom]

Originally Posted by legalmania

Then they moved to Florida is how I understood it.

But is there any way to prove they actually worked in Florida? Thanks

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by iluvmua

Yes, and then they BOTH hang up.

Yes, so they were not on the phone the entire time. They hung up. George Zimmerman continued on. He never said he was heading back to his car? I think the whole "heading back to the car" and Trayvon attacking him from behind was made up to give Zimmerman an out... how many people were involved in giving him that "out" we don't know? It may have just been Zimmerman's out... I've seen people who could lie at the drop of a hat.

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by marlame

BBM~ If you listen to the 911 call you hear GZ say OK but you also hear him still in pursuit. To me GZ saying OK meant, "yea...whatever"...

He then says have LE call me for my location when they arrive and hangs up. Why not stay on the line with 911? Hmmm...
If he was really waiting as he was told he would not have been behind the houses but NEAR or IN his truck by the club house.

JMHO~

It would be a super hero power for anyone to be able to discern, on a recorded 911 call, whether GZ turned around and started walking back to his truck or continued forward, when he said "ok" to the dispatcher. Coming and going would pretty much sound the same.

The call ended by GZ telling the dispatcher to have police call him - he then started looking for the street address while walking back to his truck. He said "thank you" and the dispatcher said, "you're welcome".

[Lovejac]

Originally Posted by m00c0w

You seemed to have left this part out:

That makes no difference to me. He should have been fired IMO and so should of this dude.

Twice caught drunk driving. I don't give a hoot if he wasn't kicked out of a bar or didn't hit parked cars. He should have been fired, too. IMO

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by belle3

Thats what I said!!!!!!!!

Can you explain it to me really quick? I want to be like "Oh snap!"

[iluvmua]

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

That is the same 911 call I have been listening to where one of the first words he slurs is besssssss address. He did not stay on the line the whole time or we would have heard the shot.

So is he required to stay on the line with 911 before he shoots someone?

[rbrnmw2]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

Can you explain it to me really quick? I want to be like "Oh snap!"

yeah me too