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  #126  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:30 PM
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I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

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  #127  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Beyond Belief View Post
some of the statues would be great, of course with some explanations if they are hard to understand.
i saw one somewhere that talked about interference with NWP, but I didn't understand if it had any bearing here.

One more question does this community have a pool?
Here we go:

782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/782.11
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  #128  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:33 PM
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Does Tracy Martin not live with his girlfriend? Does he have a separate residence?
Yes, he says that, however he said he went to sleep the night of his sons death and his girlfriend woke up saying Trayvon hadn't gotten home yet.
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  #129  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond Belief View Post
some of the statues would be great, of course with some explanations if they are hard to understand.
i saw one somewhere that talked about interference with NWP, but I didn't understand if it had any bearing here.

One more question does this community have a pool?
RBBM

It does, BB. If you go to this Google map, you can zoom in on the area where the "A" pushpin is and see the clubhouse, with pool behind, and a small pond behind that.
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  #130  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

The only way it could happen is if the injuries that Zimmerman says he got were really nothing at all.

Last edited by Adrienne37; 04-03-2012 at 08:47 PM.
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  #131  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:37 PM
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I *really* do not think that the unlawful act (felony) that is being referenced in that offense (per statute posted above) was supposed to be the alleged beating/attempted killing of GZ. I really think that would be a matter of self-defense, not a matter of killing someone to prevent a felony. Where are our lawyers??
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  #132  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:39 PM
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http://www.self-defender.net/law2.htm

1998 FLORIDA STATUTES
CHAPTER 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE


I didn't know if these had all changed or not.
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  #133  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?
That question is a brilliant synopsis of why his story seems so implausible.

< mod snip >

Last edited by fran; 04-04-2012 at 12:03 AM.
  #134  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bee Happy View Post
Also, I don't understand why either side wouldn't want an investigation. Wouldn't it clear GZ's name or bring clarity?
At this point, I don't think so. GZ should have been charged, initially, with manslaughter. The self-defense or SYG claim could then have been presented at trial. At this point this case is so muddied, he's been judged and found guilty via national tv and internet. IMO a fair trial and clarity are out of the question. Conversely, jurors may over reach on the reasonable doubt in an effort to not appear "tainted" by the negative publicity GZ has received (which is something IMO that happens with these intensely covered cases where jurors go out of their way to be "fair" and "impartial" and end up with a CA verdict).

JMO, OMO, and
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  #135  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:41 PM
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Yes, he says that, however he said he went to sleep the night of his sons death and his girlfriend woke up saying Trayvon hadn't gotten home yet.
Do you have a link for that? I don't think I ever saw it, or are you saying she woke up in the morning and told him Trayvon had not come home.
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  #136  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

Don't forget a police car will be able to travel faster than a regular car, can pass lights et cetera...so I would cut the 16 minutes considerably. However your point still stands. Things happened real fast. EMS could not have done more than a cursory check on GZ.
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  #137  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Etilema View Post
Here we go:

782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/782.11
This is the problem, there is such a gray area with the Stand Your Ground Law. This is under Justifiable Homicide.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/776.012
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  #138  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:46 PM
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Do you have a link for that? I don't think I ever saw it, or are you saying she woke up in the morning and told him Trayvon had not come home.
Lamb Chop I think it's on page 5 it's a fox interview with the dad. You might want to listen and see what you think. Post 120.
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We hope to be doing a radio show with all our artists real soon. Hope you can join in the fun. Please bare with us while we improve the show especially the sound.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axOGOBT77Xs

Please take a few moments and visit the missing children site. We really need you.
Click on the link to find a missing child,teen or adult.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...eCountry=en_US
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  #139  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:46 PM
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CONCERNED PAPA

ONCE AGAIN, YOU DAZZLE WITH LOGIC
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  #140  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

It says "cleared by SFD". Wouldn't it say treated and released by SFD if he had injuries??? Cleared sounds as if the EMT looked him over and didn't find anything significant. jmo
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  #141  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:50 PM
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No. Just the prosecutor questions witnesses.
I believe the grand jurors can also ask questions.
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  #142  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:50 PM
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http://selfdefenseflorida.com/


This series starts off with this in regards to Florida courts and self defense.

It is impossible for any defendant., black or white, man or woman, to get a fair trial in a self-defense case in Florida.
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  #143  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:50 PM
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And the grand jurors themselves may

ask questions, although generally they want jurors to submit questions to the prosecutor and have them ensure they are appropriate and then the prosecutor will ask the witness. The GJ can also ask to have witnesses called.



Quote:
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No. Just the prosecutor questions witnesses.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:52 PM
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I believe the grand jurors can also ask questions.
I think they can even take over the Grand Jury if they don't like what the SA is doing.
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  #145  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:52 PM
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Maybe the blood on GZ was actually TM's and was spatter?

Just thinkin' out loud here.



JMHO
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  #146  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:53 PM
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So the term "homie" is used among the hispanic culture, hmmmmmm interesting isn't it that Zimmerman Sr. is the FIRST to bring this word up.
Homie has been used by AAs for years.

Anybody remember the show In Living Color?
The character of the clown was named Homie The Clown.

That was back when I was in high school. Been quite a while.

I still hear it today from a vast variety of people.

JMO
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  #147  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:53 PM
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I believe the grand jurors can also ask questions.
Right. My point is there is no "other side" -- hence the term being able to indict a "ham sandwich".
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  #148  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:55 PM
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It says "cleared by SFD". Wouldn't it say treated and released by SFD if he had injuries??? Cleared sounds as if the EMT looked him over and didn't find anything significant. jmo
LOL, wondered who would be the one to catch that....that's why I didn't mention it. I think you're EXACTLY right.
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  #149  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:56 PM
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Don't forget a police car will be able to travel faster than a regular car, can pass lights et cetera...so I would cut the 16 minutes considerably. However your point still stands. Things happened real fast. EMS could not have done more than a cursory check on GZ.
They don't usually go full throttle with sirens blaring while transporting suspects, do they?
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  #150  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
Maybe the blood on GZ was actually TM's and was spatter?

Just thinkin' out loud here.



JMHO
Here's a question. What does GZ say were his and Trayvon's relative positions at the time the shot was fired? Were they struggling on the ground? Who was on top? If TM was above GZ when he was shot, I would expect blood to have gotten on GZ from that position, though I'm no expert. On the other hand, in at least one version Trayvon is said to have fallen backwards, which would imply to me that he was standing when he was shot.

Why was TM face down on the ground when police arrived? That position doesn't make sense if he "fell backward". However, if they were struggling on the ground when GZ got his gun out, it might make sense. But then I would also expect to see blood on GZ if they were in that close contact when TM was shot.

So many questions. . .
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