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  #426  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:49 PM
itsreenw itsreenw is offline
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Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein View Post
Still not understanding how going to the store after dinner says anything about his intentions or character. I hope this kind of thinking is not present in the grand jury proceedings.
It doesn't. Just like wearing a hoodie and walking doesn't say anything about TM's intention or character!! JMHO
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  #427  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Adrienne37 View Post
NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape..

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...immerman-tape/

I don't know that the editing of the tape should have warranted firing of a person from his job. Hope GZ knows how far reaching his actions have been!
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  #428  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WAS STILL TALKING TO THE 911 DISPATCHER when Robert Zimmerman says TM brutally attacked and beat his son. In fact, it is then and only then that the dispatcher asked GZ for an address for where he was parked!
Well we just know this isn't true unless the 911 tape was redacted and not released publicly. We also know there was no first confrontation at the truck as the 911 tape indicates unless it's been redacted. I have trouble listening to anything the father of GZ's been saying, JMO

Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-06-2012 at 08:05 PM. Reason: we're not comparing to other cases in this thread.
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  #429  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Elley Mae View Post
Exactly, it is difficult to read "between the lines" sometimes. I'm thinking that if there is an arrest of GZ it will be because he was told by dispatch to not follow. Not sure he will face murder. still pondering
Just a reminder:

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  #430  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:54 PM
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Last edited by Desdemona; 04-06-2012 at 08:19 PM. Reason: <remove accidental double-post>
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  #431  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by i.b.nora View Post
"And interesting that Bonaparte goes so far as to say that Tracy Martin "misconstrued" the conversation with LE where Martin states LE characterized Zimmerman as "squeaky clean"."

Those are the words of Chief Lee, not Norton Bonaparte, Jr.
It was a questionaire to the now former Police Chief. You know, the one that 'temporarily" has stepped down. I don't think it can necessarily be construed as an official position on anything by the City of Sanford.

The PDF is here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...n_shooting.pdf
Correct, they are the words of Chief Lee.

Bonaparte asked Lee the questions, Lee is giving the answers, it doesn't state that it's the city's or Bonaparte's position.

Quote:
In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what
information it can publicly release.
Lee is saying that LE did tell Travon's father that GZ was 'squeaky clean', the fact that LE said it is not in dispute. But Lee claims that LE meant that it was GZ who was saying he was squeaky clean. Chief Lee's CYA, in my opinion.

Quote:
Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has a prior arrest history?

In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information.
JMHO

Last edited by annalia; 04-06-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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  #432  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Emeralgem View Post
BBM..But we ALL know GZ did have a problem, and the problem was with TM..We also know GZ had already called the police on TM and GZ knew they were on their way... IIRC He also requested LE call him when they arrived on the premises and he would advise them as to where he was... JMHO
And what other reason would GZ have in telling op to have LE call him when they arrived, except that he knew he wasn't going to be in one place, but would be trailing TM!?
  #433  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
GZ is not a security watchman. He had no authority from anyone to follow TM. He was asked by LE to stay with his car to meet the patrol car. He has no authority from the HOA. He had no authority to even question TM. With LE on the phone he could have asked TM where he was going and didn't use that opportunity to do so. He was just a private citizen who was just suppose to call in suspicious behavior...which to GZ is walking in the rain wearing a hoodie. jmo
IIRC, Didn't he tell dispatch he is walking toward me, coming to check me out?
Why didn't he at that time when he was on the phone with LE identify himself to TM as being part of the neighborhood watch and ask TM WHY he was there and where was he going? I'm thinking IF a person was up to no good, just knowing GZ was on the phone with LE would have been somewhat of a deterrent for a person who may be planning to commit a crime..JMHO
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JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW
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  #434  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by isabelle View Post
and what other reason would gz have in telling op to have le call him when they arrived, except that he knew he wasn't going to be in one place, but would be trailing tm!?
exactly..jmho
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"It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW
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  #435  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Peliman View Post
Well we just know this isn't true unless the 911 tape was redacted and not released publicly. We also know there was no first confrontation at the truck as the 911 tape indicates unless it's been redacted. I have trouble listening to anything the father of GZ's been saying, it's like listening to Cindy Anthony's twin. JMO
I think the entire load of bs is a feeble attempt to get his son off that back sidewalk. I haven't even touched on the other obvious problem with this tale and that's the documented positioning of the body. It wasn't anywhere near where this attack/killing happened in Robert's latest tale.
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  #436  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
I did not say he broke a law. I said he was under no authority to follow TM. No told him to follow, he made that decision on his own knowing he was not authorized to do so. He took it upon himself to take the law into his own hands. LE was on the way and it was LE's job to check TM out.....it was not GZ's job. jmo
ok understand I'm not a lawyer but I do have had some legal classes and one lesson I'll never forget is what my law professor said one day.

It doesn't have to be fair, it doesn't have to be just, it just has to be legal.
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  #437  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
The misconception here, is that he doesn't have to have authority to follow someone who is in public, while waiting for LE to show up and investigate.

Where would we be, as a society, if you saw something you thought was suspicious and you don't have a right to keep an eye on the person while the cop you just called is on the way?
The theory is that it's LE's job. Always has been. Private citizens are asked not to interfer. TM was no danger to anyone at the point GZ called it in. TM was not flashing a gun, was doing nothing that indicated he was committing a crime and LE was just sending out a car to check him out. LE would have pulled up, gotten out when they saw TM and asked him politely if he lived there. After that TM would have been on his way. Private citizens are not trained to handle the type of situation GZ created by not listening. He took the law into his own hands. He has no right to do that...it's not an "against the law thing". It's a respect of the law and what you were asked to do by LE which was to stay with his car and wait for LE to get there...they were on their way. GZ took that control away from LE, he put TM's life in danger by doing so. He put everyone else's life in the area in danger because he discharged his weapon. We have to respect the law and let officers do their job. If we don't there will continue to be more people who die for no good reason. I'd say all the people who called 911 understood what LE said in those NWP meetings. Call it in and let us do our job without interference. GZ was interferring. jmo
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  #438  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
I think the entire load of bs is a feeble attempt to get his son off that back sidewalk. I haven't even touched on the other obvious problem with this tale and that's the documented positioning of the body. It wasn't anywhere near where this attack/killing happened in Robert's latest tale.
I haven't seen the interview with him. I agree he's trying to get his son off and doing a poor job of it too.
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  #439  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Peliman View Post
ok understand I'm not a lawyer but I do have had some legal classes and one lesson I'll never forget is what my law professor said one day.

It doesn't have to be fair, it doesn't have to be just, it just has to be legal.
That is probably not a very good example of what happened here. Seems GZ might have taken the same class. jmo
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  #440  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:08 PM
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I wonder if the appointed prosecutor has actually met with George Zimmerman or if he has refused to cooperate now that the case is out of the hands of the Sanford PD? Has Zimmerman's attorney made any statements about him still cooperating with the investigation?

I really, really, really want to see GZ's written police report and recorded statement from the night of the shooting and I also want to see the taped walk through. I want to know what GZ said the night of the shooting and the next day in his own words. I think it's the only way to really map out what GZ did that night?

We have to remember that early on, Zimmerman's father flat out denied that GZ followed Trayvon at all... and comes to find out that he may have actually been on the scene during the walkthrough so was that part of Zimmerman's original statement?? That he never followed Trayvon when we all know he admitted to following Trayvon and can hear him doing it?

I don't understand how they can release a video of GZ in the SPD that night, but can't release his written statement... at least!
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  #441  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
I guess I'm not following your thoughts . . .

It seems to me, that Bonaparte is taking issue with Tracy Martin's reporting than an officer called Zimmerman's record "squeaky clean". As in, no one said that to him.

I'm not sure about someone saying it, and someone else not correcting it.

It seems Bonaparte is saying no one said it.

Why, in the conversation where they inform parents that their minor child is dead, would the cop go on in detail that Zimmerman had been charged but went into a youthful offender program many years ago? I would think that wouldn't come up in an initial conversation about a deceased child.
Youthful offender program? What youthful offender program did GZ go into, link please.
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  #442  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Peliman View Post
I haven't seen the interview with him. I agree he's trying to get his son off and doing a poor job of it too.
The problem with it too is he is saying George told him this stuff. It can be used in court.
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  #443  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:11 PM
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The problem with it too is he is saying George told him this stuff. It can be used in court.
I don't find that to be a problem?

I wonder if he has given any kind of investigative interview to the new prosecutor in this case?
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Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-06-2012 at 08:18 PM. Reason: no victory dancing in the perceived end zone pls
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  #444  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mfcmom View Post
Did anyone hear who it was who claimed GZ's after effects were like "shaken baby sydrome"? I think but am not sure it was his new attorney, Uhlrig. Does anyone have a link? I am furious, as the adoptive parent of a 13 year old who is in a wheelchair, has a feeding tube and the mentality of a five year old, who WAS a shaken baby at two years old. This is disgraceful and I really want to know who said it, I briefly caught it on one of the news stations and darn it did a double take and then it was gone. Can anyone help? I am so PO'd. TY
So sorry about your child's injuries and disability.

No, Uhrig absolutely did NOT say or in any way imply that GZ's resulting injury was diagnosable as SBS.

Uhrig said the Florida "Stand Your Ground" statute applied because Zimmerman feared for his life: "One of the points people have said, the force [used against Martin] was too much, even if he broke his nose and slammed his head into the ground.

Many people remember the case of Liam Neeson's wife - fell on a little ski slope, hit her head one time on the ground, and died. We're familiar with the shaken baby syndrome: You shake a baby the brain shakes around inside the skull, you can die.

"When someone is pounding your head on the ground, and you've already had your nose broken, you could be in reasonable fear for great bodily harm - which is what the Florida statute calls for - and if you think you're about to lose your life or be seriously injured like that, you're absolutely entitled to take the necessary action to stop it."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...cted-by-media/

You can watch and listen at 3:43 in the video posted at the link.

Apologies if already posted.
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  #445  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Emeralgem View Post
IIRC, Didn't he tell dispatch he is walking toward me, coming to check me out?
Why didn't he at that time when he was on the phone with LE identify himself to TM as being part of the neighborhood watch and ask TM WHY he was there and where was he going? I'm thinking IF a person was up to no good, just knowing GZ was on the phone with LE would have been somewhat of a deterrent for a person who may be planning to commit a crime..JMHO
I cannot understand why GZ didn't identify himself immediately, the whole thing could have been cleared up with a little communication. Instead we have a dead 17yr old who was minding his own business on his way home.
This is where I believe GZ decided this situation needed to escalate to give him the ultimate thrill. Calling 911 on kids playing in the street was getting old. I think he fantasized about becoming a hero, and he found the perfect storm at Trayvon's expense.
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  #446  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:19 PM
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I do not know about illegal but it certainly calls the report into question. I can only say this: in the department I worked for, I was never once asked to alter a submitted report once it had been accepted, and when I was eventually a supervisor myself, it never once occured to me to ask someone else to do so. I cannot imagine it even coming up, other than in some effort to rewrite history or something. New information comes to light every day during an investigation. That follow up investigation and information has it's own report, and one from every single officer involved.

I can understand relabeling a case file, or ammending a cover letter or something, but actually altering a report?

IN MY OPINION ONLY!

(Note: I said "once accepted." By this I mean that, despite their training, it is not uncommon to see new officers attempt to turn in reports that are complete trash. It is a supervisor's job to ensure that this doesn't happen.)
I understand exactly what you are saying here, Chris. There are plenty reports written in a correctional center/jail every day (my experience and example). It is the documenting of an incident or even an accident, then there are the disciplinary reports. The reports/documentation have to be absolutely correct because these reports are, in fact, considered to be legal documents. They are also used in court.

The concept of the reports are comparable to what LE uses. The standard is the 'Who, What, When, and where.' You will see many reports with lines drawn through the rest of the page. That is done to prevent anything from being added to the report. You cannot use white out or type/write over words. If further information is needed or added, you would have to write an additional report and state the reason why. Then that report would be in addition to the first. BUT you should never alter the original report or add information to it.

*This part of the post is not directed to your post, Chris.

I am just sick at heart about how LE handled Trayvon's case with the exception of the one officer who evaluated the scene and wanted to charge.

At the end of the day, a young boy was killed when he should have been safe walking back to the home he was a guest in. IMO, Trayvon is the true victim here because he was doing nothing wrong. Now he is dead and his parents are devastated.

There should never be a law such as SYG if every single word written in that law is not clear and concise. I believe that we all have a right to defend ourselves against clear and present danger, but not with deadly force if it is just a fistfight. IMO, Trayvon did not have a chance with an ex-bouncer with a weapon.

May true justice prevail.

MOO's
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  #447  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:21 PM
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Trayvon Martin's Uncle Feels Empty Without Him
Ronald Fulton says "if I needed anything, he would be there for me"


Ronald Fulton developed a special bond with Trayvon Martin and says he relied on him every day.

He was permanently changed when he heard his nephew calling out for help in a phone call from the night he was shot and died in Sanford, he says.

“To this day it haunts me. It haunts me and that’s my motivation,” Fulton said. “That’s what motivates me.”

Fulton, who has not traveled to Sanford, said he believes that the grand jury due to convene next week will indict Zimmerman.

“Of course I do,” he said, while emphasizing that attention remain on “the way the police department handled it.”

He urges peaceful protest for his nephew no matter what lies ahead.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/T...146490255.html
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mfcmom View Post
Did anyone hear who it was who claimed GZ's after effects were like "shaken baby sydrome"? I think but am not sure it was his new attorney, Uhlrig. Does anyone have a link? I am furious, as the adoptive parent of a 13 year old who is in a wheelchair, has a feeding tube and the mentality of a five year old, who WAS a shaken baby at two years old. This is disgraceful and I really want to know who said it, I briefly caught it on one of the news stations and darn it did a double take and then it was gone. Can anyone help? I am so PO'd. TY

http://whtc.com/news/articles/2012/a...artins-killer/

SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - "Shaken Baby Syndrome" was cited on Friday in the defense of George Zimmerman, the Sanford, Florida, man who shot and killed unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, in a case that has sparked a widespread public outcry.

Hal Uhrig, a lawyer and former Gainesville, Florida, police officer who recently joined Zimmerman's defense team, cited in a TV interview the brain damage that can seriously injure or kill an infant.

His point, which has been made before, was that Zimmerman contends he shot Martin in self defense and feared for his life after the 17-year-old attacked him and began pounding his head into the concrete pavement of a gated community on a rainy evening in Sanford on February 26.

But Uhrig's choice of words, and use of a recognized sign of child abuse to defend a 28-year-old man who killed a kid, seemed likely to raise more than just a few eyebrows.

"We're familiar with the Shaken Baby Syndrome," said Uhrig on the CBS This Morning program. "You shake a baby, the brain shakes around inside the skull. You can die when someone's pounding your head into the ground."
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  #449  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:24 PM
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Witness: Sanford police uninterested in her account

SANFORD, FL (RNN) - A witness is claiming the Sanford Police showed little interest in what she had seen around the time of the shooting of the unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin, on the night of Feb. 26.

The woman told CNN she witnessed the entire incident, including the shooting. She said she called 911 that night.

Officials from the state attorney's office have questioned her, CNN reporter Ashley Banfield said.

http://www.14news.com/story/17354449...in-her-account
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  #450  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
If it was between his shirt and pants, it would not have been visible to TM.

And I'm thinking he could have untucked his shirt to get the gun. Perhaps he asked an officer on the scene to tuck his shirt back in (much like the officer in the tape does) and that officer complied too.

The gun had to come out someway. Seems he had to pull his shirt up to get it to me.

JMO
How would GZ have done that if TM attacked him from behind, knocked him down and was banging his head against the cement while pinning him to the ground? You can't clip a gun to your pants if it's under your shirt. You would want it under your jacket but not under your shirt. An unclipped gun would fall down through his pants and he would have lost it half way down the sidewalk. My husband had a clip on his holster to clip to a belt. GZ had no belt so it would have to be clipped to his pants, IMO. jmo
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