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  #451  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Desdemona View Post
So sorry about your child's injuries and disability.

No, Uhrig absolutely did NOT say or in any way imply that GZ's resulting injury was diagnosable as SBS.

Uhrig said the Florida "Stand Your Ground" statute applied because Zimmerman feared for his life: "One of the points people have said, the force [used against Martin] was too much, even if he broke his nose and slammed his head into the ground.

Many people remember the case of Liam Neeson's wife - fell on a little ski slope, hit her head one time on the ground, and died. We're familiar with the shaken baby syndrome: You shake a baby the brain shakes around inside the skull, you can die.

"When someone is pounding your head on the ground, and you've already had your nose broken, you could be in reasonable fear for great bodily harm - which is what the Florida statute calls for - and if you think you're about to lose your life or be seriously injured like that, you're absolutely entitled to take the necessary action to stop it."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...cted-by-media/

You can watch and listen at 3:43 in the video posted at the link.

Apologies if already posted.
Huffpo has a different take. I believe the inference was there. Also if I offended anyone before I am sorry. I have very strong feelings about defense tactics. JMO
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  #452  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Adrienne37 View Post
NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape..

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...immerman-tape/
I for one am relieved. They don't need someone who purposely misleads their audience. And I don't believe - for a minute - that anyone who has the wits to be able to work in a major media outlet and edit tape doesn't have the wits to know exactly the misleading effect that editing job will have on the viewers.

In this cutthroat business to be considered the most believable media outlet in the market, having an editor who changes tapes to further an agenda - instead of further the truth - can't be tolerated.

He's either really too dumb to know what he's done will have an effect on the perception of truth with their audience, or he knows it and did it on purpose. Both are dangerous to have in the newsroom, I don't know which is more detrimental to the success of NBC.
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  #453  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rotterdam View Post
It is a horrible law in its current form. At the point where GZ left his car with a loaded gun and preyed on Tray for no good reason, he became the aggressor/provoker. And I really do not care what happened after that.
The SYG should not be a walking piece of real estate that envelops the aggressor in a mobile protective immune bubble. The SYG victimizes the (dead)victim by not giving the victim any human/civil rights and/or any due process in a court.
All IMO.
I certainly agree with you on this, rotterdam. I, too, believe that GZ did become the aggressor.

This SYG law needs to be rewritten in plain English if kept at all. There are just too many holes in it, IMO.

MOO
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  #454  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
GZ's attorney would have sounded more intelligent claiming a coup countercoup injury, but that too would required diagnostics, and GZ probably would have had to go to the hospital.
Just to clarify, Uhrig did not "claim" any specific type of injury. As examples, he brought up two types of serious/fatal brain injury, one being closed-head injury due to a seemingly harmless blow, and one being SBS, in asserting that GZ had every reason to to fear serious injury or death when his head was being slammed into the ground, and every right to protect himself.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:29 PM
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You know if GZ is arrested for at least manslaughter they are going to try and get everything he said the night of the shooting and the walk-through the next day thrown out? They're going to blame SPD, EMS, etc... for not getting him medical attention? They are going to say he could not legally, with his severe head injury, sign a waiver so it is invalid. Then we'll get into the whole Miranda Warning (which hopefully they gave him) and how even if he was read his Miranda Warning, his severe head injury prevented him from fully understanding what he was agreeing to.

Also, why in the world wouldn't GZ want to release the medical report showing what his actual injuries were? If I was GZ, I would have released that weeks ago to show just how bad my injuries were. Especially a broken nose and a gash that would have required stitches had it not started to heal? I wonder if he went to a family doctor or if he went to the ER?

I'm still puzzled why they are withholding the autopsy report? I don't understand that? Did Trayvon have injuries that they don't want released to the public yet?

Another question I have would be, when Police took the gun from Zimmerman, did they have gloves on? We all seen how the one officer totally disregarded basic safety measures when frisking Zimmerman, but what about when they took the gun? If Trayvon was going to the gun, his fingerprints should be on the gun? What part of the gun were Trayvon's fingerprints? If it was on the actual nozzle (is that the name for where the bullet comes out) I think it would mean Trayvon was trying to get the gun away from pointing at him. If the fingerprints were on the handle (where you hold it and the trigger is?) then it would go with Trayvon going for the gun while in Zimmerman's waistband?

So many questions still! It's driving me insane.

MOO
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  #456  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:31 PM
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"But Uhrig's choice of words, and use of a recognized sign of child abuse to defend a 28-year-old man who killed a kid, seemed likely to raise more than just a few eyebrows.

"We're familiar with the Shaken Baby Syndrome," said Uhrig on the CBS This Morning program. "You shake a baby, the brain shakes around inside the skull. You can die when someone's pounding your head into the ground.""

The Reuters Article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8350D520120406
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  #457  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrienne37 View Post
Witness: Sanford police uninterested in her account

SANFORD, FL (RNN) - A witness is claiming the Sanford Police showed little interest in what she had seen around the time of the shooting of the unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin, on the night of Feb. 26.

The woman told CNN she witnessed the entire incident, including the shooting. She said she called 911 that night.

Officials from the state attorney's office have questioned her, CNN reporter Ashley Banfield said.

http://www.14news.com/story/17354449...in-her-account
I wish we had at least a name for this witness or a idea of what she saw? Is it MC? Or would it be the woman from the call where we heard the actual shot fired?
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  #458  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desdemona View Post
Just to clarify, Uhrig did not "claim" any specific type of injury. As examples, he brought up two types of serious/fatal brain injury, one being closed-head injury due to a seemingly harmless blow, and one being SBS, in asserting that GZ had every reason to to fear serious injury or death when his head was being slammed into the ground, and every right to protect himself.
Again if these injuries were so severe and likely to cause you death possibly within a few days, why was he not treated in the ER the night of Trayvon's murder? His brother indicated that he was barely conscious, one step away from being spoon fed and wearing diapers. I would love a very reasonable explanation as to why he didn't go to the hospital.


~jmo~
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  #459  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
I for one am relieved. They don't need someone who purposely misleads their audience. And I don't believe - for a minute - that anyone who has the wits to be able to work in a major media outlet and edit tape doesn't have the wits to know exactly the misleading effect that editing job will have on the viewers.

In this cutthroat business to be considered the most believable media outlet in the market, having an editor who changes tapes to further an agenda - instead of further the truth - can't be tolerated.

He's either really too dumb to know what he's done will have an effect on the perception of truth with their audience, or he knows it and did it on purpose. Both are dangerous to have in the newsroom, I don't know which is more detrimental to the success of NBC.
I sort of have a different take on it JennaT - don't you think it's possible this editor is just the fall guy? It would be hard to believe a conglomerate as big as NBC doesn't have a check and balance system. Firing this guy is showing they took a stand, problem solved - probably a nice severance package. He'll be editing at FOX News next week. JMO
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  #460  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
You know if GZ is arrested for at least manslaughter they are going to try and get everything he said the night of the shooting and the walk-through the next day thrown out? They're going to blame SPD, EMS, etc... for not getting him medical attention? They are going to say he could not legally, with his severe head injury, sign a waiver so it is invalid. Then we'll get into the whole Miranda Warning (which hopefully they gave him) and how even if he was read his Miranda Warning, his severe head injury prevented him from fully understanding what he was agreeing to.

Also, why in the world wouldn't GZ want to release the medical report showing what his actual injuries were? If I was GZ, I would have released that weeks ago to show just how bad my injuries were. Especially a broken nose and a gash that would have required stitches had it not started to heal? I wonder if he went to a family doctor or if he went to the ER?

I'm still puzzled why they are withholding the autopsy report? I don't understand that? Did Trayvon have injuries that they don't want released to the public yet?

Another question I have would be, when Police took the gun from Zimmerman, did they have gloves on? We all seen how the one officer totally disregarded basic safety measures when frisking Zimmerman, but what about when they took the gun? If Trayvon was going to the gun, his fingerprints should be on the gun? What part of the gun were Trayvon's fingerprints? If it was on the actual nozzle (is that the name for where the bullet comes out) I think it would mean Trayvon was trying to get the gun away from pointing at him. If the fingerprints were on the handle (where you hold it and the trigger is?) then it would go with Trayvon going for the gun while in Zimmerman's waistband?

So many questions still! It's driving me insane.

MOO
I don't think the autopsy report is complete. The cause of death is obvious, but they won't have the tox report back, I don't think. Those take forever.
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  #461  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I wish we had at least a name for this witness or a idea of what she saw? Is it MC? Or would it be the woman from the call where we heard the actual shot fired?
I have no clue Lola. Hopefully we will get a little bit more information from her.
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  #462  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
The misconception here, is that he doesn't have to have authority to follow someone who is in public, while waiting for LE to show up and investigate.

Where would we be, as a society, if you saw something you thought was suspicious and you don't have a right to keep an eye on the person while the cop you just called is on the way?
Once you have called in a complaint of a suspect it is official police business. If they tell you to stay with your car they mean it or they would not tell you to do so. No one asked GZ to follow, he knew full well he was not suppose to because he set up the NW Program himself. He knew what to do and disregarded the very rules of the program. He knew it was dangerous to follow someone he had already decided was a suspect. Whatever was his motivation???? His car was parked in front of a home that faced the street with a house number on it but he ignored LE's request to return to his car and kept walking to the next street (according to his Dad).

LE can't do their job with people who take it upon themselves to interfer. And once that call is placed it is official police business your obligation ends. All LE did was ask if he wanted to meet the cruiser and where would he be. He never said I'm planning on continued to follow this dude. He owed LE the consideration as a private citizen to do as they had asked him to do. Go back to your car, you don't need to follow, we have a car on the way, please meet us at the mailboxes, etc. on and on. It's all pretty clear.

If everyone decided to take matter into their own hands it would be a lawless society. Two things that put LE at a disadvantage. GZ did not tell them he fully intended to keep following TM and that he was armed with a gun. Two very important facts that LE should have been aware of.

Once you call it in to LE, let them do their job, please. GZ owed TM that consideration. Now TM is dead and it did not have to turn out that way. jmo
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  #463  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
I don't know that the editing of the tape should have warranted firing of a person from his job. Hope GZ knows how far reaching his actions have been!
Their job is to report the news not create it.
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  #464  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
w

Once you have called in a complaint of a suspect it is official police business. If they tell you to stay with your car they mean it or they would not tell you to do so. No one asked GZ to follow, he knew full well he was not suppose to because he set up the NW Program himself. He knew what to do and disregarded the very rules of the program. He knew it was dangerous to follow someone he had already decided was a suspect. What ever was his motivation???? His car was parked in front of a home that faced the street with a house number on it but he ignored LE's request to return to his car and kept walking to the next street (according to his Dad).

LE can't do their job with people who take it upon themselves to interfer. And once that call is place it is official police business your obligation ends. All LE did was ask if he wanted to meet the cruiser and where would he be. He never said I'm planning on continued to follow this dude. He owed LE the consideration as a private citizen to do as they had asked him to do. Go back to your car, you don't need to follow, we have a car on the way, please meet us at the mailboxes, etc. on and on. It's all pretty clear.

If everyone decided to take matter into their own hands it would be would have a lawless society.

Once you call it in to LE, let them do their job, please. GZ owed TM that consideration. Now TM is dead and it did not have to turn out that way. jmo
BBM...

This is how I see it to LambChop.
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  #465  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
I sort of have a different take on it JennaT - don't you think it's possible this editor is just the fall guy? It would be hard to believe a conglomerate as big as NBC doesn't have a check and balance system. Firing this guy is showing they took a stand, problem solved - probably a nice severance package. He'll be editing at FOX News next week. JMO
I doubt, having edited that tape in a way that shows a clear bias toward Trayvon, he will ever get an interview at FOX. ;D

But yes, maybe he was a fall guy in a large group of employees who all were working to taint the truth. Telling only one side of a story is something that's common at this point in the media, and we've grown to expect and predict one sided MSM - God rest Walter Chronkite's soul - but to actually change an audio tape of a recorded phone call to make the caller appear racist is beyond that practice of only telling one side.

And truthfully, depending on what market you're listening to, you need to be aware of their bias so you can filter that way. That's just reality. But to actually present a doctored audio tape is so disrespectful of their viewers.

Nobody in this, on either side, wants to be lied to or given evidence that has been altered. We all want the truth.

*tap tap* There. Off my soap box now. ;D
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  #466  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein View Post
By that token TM had an incident in which he had jewlery that wasn't his and a burglary tool...yet that is clearly disregarded when it is relevant to whether he may have been casing homes. That's considered "bashing" though. TM had a criminal background as well, but with no convictions.
The question would be if TM had those items on him at the time of the shooting. The answer is no, he didn't. It's irrelevant to the issue at hand.
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  #467  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
How would GZ have done that if TM attacked him from behind, knocked him down and was banging his head against the cement while pinning him to the ground? You can't clip a gun to your pants if it's under your shirt. You would want it under your jacket but not under your shirt. An unclipped gun would fall down through his pants and he would have lost it half way down the sidewalk. My husband had a clip on his holster to clip to a belt. GZ had no belt so it would have to be clipped to his pants, IMO. jmo
I was jumping off of your post where you said...
"IMO the gun was tucked into his waistband between his shirt and his pants".

I guess I thought you meant that his shirt was tucked over the gun and into his pants.
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  #468  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:44 PM
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Bumping this reminder.

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Originally Posted by ynotdivein View Post
Seems that many here would like to know if GZ had been drinking that night.

Also seems that many here would like to know if TM had done anything other than walk straight to the store and back that night.

AFAICT, we have insufficient evidence at this time to prove anything conclusive about either of these questions.

Until we do, let's move the discussion on to more productive lines of sleuthing.

This post lands at random, and
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  #469  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:45 PM
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Witness was just interviewed on CNN -- says she was on the phone with 911 when shot went off and held phone up to screen. Says she was certain GZ was on top and entire altercation was at least 4 feet away from concrete. Her attorney says SA investigators did not do a very complete interview -- only 15 minutes. This witness had been interviewed before but this was more complete.
  #470  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:46 PM
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I sort of have a different take on it JennaT - don't you think it's possible this editor is just the fall guy? It would be hard to believe a conglomerate as big as NBC doesn't have a check and balance system. Firing this guy is showing they took a stand, problem solved - probably a nice severance package. He'll be editing at FOX News next week. JMO
You have a point there vlpate. Why didn't the script editor, senior producer or legal department catch the "mistake".
Quote:
Citing an anonymous network executive, Reuters reported that “the ‘Today’ show’s editorial control policies — which include a script editor, senior producer oversight and in most cases legal and standards department reviews of material to be broadcast — missed the selective editing of the call.”
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...immerman-tape/
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:46 PM
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Well, I have listened to that slowed down tape of the screaming on and off for the last 3 hours. I can finally hear the words "somebody help". Its tangled in the callers words right after the dispatchers says her peace.
I am coming down off the fence now.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:48 PM
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Witness was just interviewed on CNN -- says she was on the phone with 911 when shot went off and held phone up to screen. Says she was certain GZ was on top and entire altercation was at least 4 feet away from concrete. Her attorney says SA investigators did not do a very complete interview -- only 15 minutes. This witness had been interviewed before but this was more complete.
A witness has an attorney? ??

I'm sorry to be dense, but what does that mean "and held phone up to screen". Does that mean she photographed what she saw with her phone?

It strains the imagination to think of how GZ got injuries to the back of his head when he was on top during a fight. Also it strains the imagination to think how Trayvon would be losing a hand to hand fight with GZ.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:49 PM
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I have another question?? The officer's who brought Zimmerman to the station... would they have had the gun or would that have been left with the detectives on the scene?

I would love to see the chain of custody that gun went through that night? Fingerprints should be very easy to obtain since LE got there so quick. Zimmerman and Trayvon's fingerprints should be on the gun.

MOO
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  #474  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
w

Once you have called in a complaint of a suspect it is official police business. If they tell you to stay with your car they mean it or they would not tell you to do so. No one asked GZ to follow, he knew full well he was not suppose to because he set up the NW Program himself. He knew what to do and disregarded the very rules of the program. He knew it was dangerous to follow someone he had already decided was a suspect. Whatever was his motivation???? His car was parked in front of a home that faced the street with a house number on it but he ignored LE's request to return to his car and kept walking to the next street (according to his Dad).

LE can't do their job with people who take it upon themselves to interfer. And once that call is placed it is official police business your obligation ends. All LE did was ask if he wanted to meet the cruiser and where would he be. He never said I'm planning on continued to follow this dude. He owed LE the consideration as a private citizen to do as they had asked him to do. Go back to your car, you don't need to follow, we have a car on the way, please meet us at the mailboxes, etc. on and on. It's all pretty clear.

If everyone decided to take matter into their own hands it would be a lawless society. Two things that put LE at a disadvantage. GZ did not tell them he fully intended to keep following TM and that he was armed with a gun. Two very important facts that LE should have been aware of.

Once you call it in to LE, let them do their job, please. GZ owed TM that consideration. Now TM is dead and it did not have to turn out that way. jmo

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Old 04-06-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
A witness has an attorney? ??

I'm sorry to be dense, but what does that mean "and held phone up to screen". Does that mean she photographed what she saw with her phone?
If I was a witness to a murder that has become this high profile, I would get an attorney too. No one wants to get Kronked!
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