17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Isabelle

I thought GZ was an adult when he went through anger management. Did LE kind of change that story, so it would sound better.

I thought he was 20-years-old?

Kinda funny using "youthful" with a 20-year-old, but 17-year-old Trayvon was an adult.

MOO

[Desdemona]

Originally Posted by mfcmom

Unfortunately, or fortunately, we can agree to disagree. You say tomato, I say tomatoe. Thank you for your opinion, but the inference was there, or he wouldn't have said it. I am not the only one who feels this way. But thank you again for your insight. Defense attorney's are in the practice of throwing out anything they can against the wall to see if it will stick. Kind of reminds me of the JB defense with GA. JMO

Ah, yet again I seem to have misunderstood you! So sorry about that, and thanks for being civil about it. Please allow me to explain.

First I thought you were asking for clarification because you felt you might have misunderstood the CBS clip of Uhrig speaking. Then I thought you clarified that the inference was actually coming from the Huffpo article. My bad. Now I finally "get it" -- that it is you yourself who interpret Uhrig's remarks to mean that he implied GZ is/was suffering from SBS. No problem. Everyone has a right to his/her own interpretation.

Sheesh. There I was, attempting to "help" by providing information to clarify the issue. If I'd understood from your prior posts that the interpretation was your own considered opinion, I would never have said a word! I respect the right of each of us to have and express our own opinions.

Again, so sorry for misunderstanding. I promise I did not mean to argue! (Slinking off this thread now.... LOL)

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?

School security, mall security, all have vehicles and uniforms that acknowledge who they are.

Zimmerman was just some guy in a truck?

MOO

ETA: In another neighborhood I lived in, they had hired security and they also wore uniforms and drove cars that clearly stated they were "security" and had a flashing light on top of the vehicle.

[mercuriod]

Originally Posted by katydid23

bbm

The attorney did not hear the initial interview. He only heard the FOLLOW UP interview.

Doesn't mean he hasn't read the transcript or seen the video of the initial interview. Since the interview was with his client he would have legal access to it. Or gee maybe his client (you know the one that was interviewed) told him that.

jmo, imo and all that jazz

[uvamerica]

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

If it was in the trunk I would have thought the officer would have taken it with him seeing how far they had to walk to get where they were going in that video. That would have been the only evidence he had.

Hmm, I remember seeing one of the cops put a coat/jacket in the trunk, but he took nothing out. I know some LE stations have a place (like a box or window)to drop off service weapons. Some parts of LE stations don't allow weapons. In Providence RI not that long ago a prisoner on the 2nd floor at the LE station disarmed a detective, shot him and jumped through the window. Guns are no longer allowed where prisoners are being questioned. Don't know if SPD had one though.

[Isabelle]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

I have calmed down a little bit. Did this "new witness" who talked to CNN tonight give her name? I just want to make sure it isn't MC?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around an investigator telling any witness to a murder "who was doing what and when" when that witness is giving their statement to LE in a death investigation? Not only that it would happen once... with one witness... but a second time... with another witness? I just can't wrap my mind around it? I can't? Why would they even think they could get away with it?

You know, if there was that much corruption going on in that department, maybe Trayvon's purpose was to shine a bright light on it? I hope that with the investigation, the residents of Sanford, all of them, will, in the end, be left with a Police Department they can look up to and respect... and not a Police Department that they fear or feel pressured by.

MOO

Could be she doesn't want to be identified and could be that investigators told her to keep her identity secret and not discuss what she witnessed. Think maybe she is afraid?!

[highflyer]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?

Why would you think someone following you was a security guard unless they were in a marked car, in a uniform or otherwise verbally identified themselves as such?

[lisalei321]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?

I think security guards wear uniforms. GZ was not in a uniform that I know of...

I'm pretty sure he'd of scared me'

JMO...

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

[Beyond Belief]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

School security, mall security, all have vehicles and uniforms that acknowledge who they are.

Zimmerman was just some guy in a truck?

MOO

ETA: In another neighborhood I lived in, they had hired security and they also wore uniforms and drove cars that clearly stated they were "security" and had a flashing light on top of the vehicle.

I don't know, it was raining, some distance between them, and I don't think Trayvon had his glasses on, unless of course he used contact lenses.

[Chris_Texas]

Originally Posted by vlpate

I agree with this - people should be able to walk around without fear of being suspected of doing more. Women should be able to walk at night without fear of being stalked and stared out, and made to feel afraid (real or imagined). I am staying away from home right now - not familiar with the neighborhood at all. Last night I went to walk my dogs and a guy was just standing around by the gates smoking. He watched me walk out and I could feel him watching while I walked and I started getting the creeps (my two chi-pins don't instill fear, they just annoy). I let them pee and started walking back to my place while one was still in mid stream. I couldn't get back in and lock the door fast enough.

This guy, and he was either spanish or white, hard to tell in the dark, really scared me. He wasn't doing anything but watching me. In my mind though, I know the guy could overtake me easily - so I made sure I was somewhere safe quickly. I had my cell, but I'd have felt really silly calling 911 at that point.

What I would not have done is say eff it, I have a right to be here as much as he does. Would I ask him what the he** he's looking at, no, that would be weird. So this is all on me ... until he starts following me - then I have to make some choices - a)take my bum home as fast as my legs will carry me, b)call 911, or c)put on my big girl panties and confront him. Of course I would choose "a" while simultaneously performing "b". "C", would not be an option - he could definitely take me, and he might have a gun. In Texas, the gun is always a pretty good bet.

Sounds scary.

So there is my sticking point - why didn't Trayvon just keep running all the way home if GZ was scaring him? The ONLY thing I can come up with is he wasn't scared and wanted to put a little fear into this a** 'le. Right or wrong, this is all I can come up with....and that it backfired, TM didn't consider there might be a gun.

He ran to where the guy with the car could no longer continue following him, then thinking he had lost him and that he was safe -- fifteen seconds run from his door -- he went back to talking to his girlfriend. With his hoodie up in the rain he never noticed GZ coming up behind him until it was too late.

When I get scared, I also get ticked off because I feel so helpless. I always think if I were a guy I could at least confront the jerks. So do I blame TM if this is what happened? Not at all - good for him. I just don't think anyone is going to buy that he was scared - and therefore, the arrest will never happen. I hate the SYG law as it applies to this case - but I hate more that Trayvon didn't just walk or run away from it. Guns give otherwise cowardly jerks confidence.

If Trayvon NEEDED to sprint all the way home in order to be safe from Zimmerman, if he needed to hide inside to avoid being killed, then the problem is not with Trayvon.

Trayvon had a right to be there, he had a right to be outside, he had a right to walk or stand on his own sidewalk, he had a right to not be harrassed, he had a right to ignore this clown, he had a right to STAND HIS GROUND. What Trayvon did instead was run. He ran away from the scary guy. He ran all the way to where the potential maniac in the car could no longer follow him, to where he was safe in the middle of all these houses.

Except he wasn't safe ever there.

Zimmerman, on the other hand, had no legal authority to do any of the things he did. Not as a private citizen, and not as a neighborhood watchman. He's not empowered to stop and question people he doesn't like and expect answers. Even the police cannot just stop random people and demand to know their identity and business. Nor was Zimmerman empowered to follow people around, scaring them. That's not his job, it's no one's job. Again, even the police are not allowed to follow people for no reason.

As scary as your encounter was, let's expand on it. Instead imagine that your creepy guy was following you as you took your walk. He's behind you in his car, so you cut through an ally. He's waiting on the far side. Staring, watching you, creeping along in his car. Then he gets out of his car in front of you. You have enough of this nut and you run for it.

Now YOU would likely go all the way home and then phone 911. I would too, and I am an adult male. But Trayvon was a young, black, teen boy -- and taken together that's a powerful disincentive to phone the police. Trayvon, Mr Macho, didn't even tell his girl that he had ran, he said just walked real fast. In short, he did what any teen boy would do, he got away from the nut and went back to his business. That business being girls.

We can stand back and critique Trayvon's survival performance. We can say 'If only he had done this or that, run here, jumped there, gone home, locked his door, climbed a tree, bought a snickers instead of skittles, or whatever.' That's okay to discuss when we are trying to figure out how to survive if we find ourselves hunted by a maniac, but let us not make the mistake of confusing our critique with assigning blame. We don't blame a woman for drinking at a party, or wearing a short dress, or looking attractive, we blame the monster who raped her. We don't blame the little girl helping the nice man find his 'lost puppy.' we blame the monster who slaughtered her.

And here, I don't blame the kid walking home from 7-11 in the rain with candy for his little brother. I blame the <mod snip> who hunted him down and killed him.

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Isabelle

Could be she doesn't want to be identified and could be that investigators told her to keep her identity secret and not discuss what she witnessed. Think maybe she is afraid?!

I don't know what to think? I was livid when investigators corrected MC... I am even more livid that it may have happened to another witness. And who would say such a thing to a witness?? "If it's any consolation, the guy screaming is alive?" The investigator wasn't there to witness who was screaming? He may have gotten that information from "John" but it is NOT his job to inform a witness to what another witness stated?

Witness statements very rarely match up... but it appears LE tried in vain to make all the witnesses story match.

MOO

[Adrienne37]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this in motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?

He wasn't a security guard for the complex. He wasn't a security anything for the complex. He was a self-appointed neighborhood watch "captain." He has no official capacity at that complex whatsoever. Nothing, nada. He was a renter in the community. He was no different from any other person living in that complex except he had a problem following the rules.


~jmo~

[mercuriod]

Originally Posted by vlpate

Steven Segal, the actor?

Yes, he is also a deputy sheriff in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, has been for over 20 years, don't know which was the "side" job acting or law enforcement.

jmo, imo and all that jazz

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

I don't know, it was raining, some distance between them, and I don't think Trayvon had his glasses on, unless of course he used contact lenses.

Not according to Zimmerman? According to Zimmerman, Trayvon was walking towards him and checking him out? I'm sure if Zimmerman had "security" written on his vehicle with a "flashing light" and Zimmerman got out of the car in a "security uniform", Trayvon would not have been so scared.

MOO

[Chris_Texas]

Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125

Has anybody insinuated he stole the items? I've never seen or heard such an insinuation.

Absolutely. People have even insinuated that his having $22 was suspicious. Yes, even here.

[LolaMoon08]

Another thing, police even have warned people not to pull over for any car that could be mistaken for an unmarked police car while driving on a dark secluded road because so many police impersonations (robbing/kidnapping/killing). You're to call 911 and get confirmation that you are being pulled over by an actual Police Officer.

[Beyond Belief]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

He wasn't a security guard for the complex. He wasn't a security anything for the complex. He was a self-appointed neighborhood watch "captain." He has no official capacity at that complex whatsoever. Nothing, nada. He was a renter in the community. He was no different from any other person living in that complex except he had a problem following the rules.


~jmo~

We know that, but Trayvon wouldn't have known that.
.

[Dr.Fessel]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

School security, mall security, all have vehicles and uniforms that acknowledge who they are.

Zimmerman was just some guy in a truck?

MOO

ETA: In another neighborhood I lived in, they had hired security and they also wore uniforms and drove cars that clearly stated they were "security" and had a flashing light on top of the vehicle.

A guy in a truck.

Staring at him.

In a red coat.

Lookin about.

Something in his hand.

Following me.

[Adrienne37]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

We know that, but Trayvon wouldn't have known that.
.

No Trayvon probably thought he was the boogeyman, someone stalking him, someone following him, someone "checking him out." Trayvon was likely scared to death for good reason.



~jmo~

[highflyer]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

We know that, but Trayvon wouldn't have known that.
.

Trayvon had no reason whatsoever to believe that he was anything but a stalker. If you walked through a gated community and someone followed you would you assume they were security? I sure as heck wouldn't unless they were in a uniform or in a marked car.

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

We know that, but Trayvon wouldn't have known that.
.

Even more reason for him to be scared! He had no idea who this guy was and why he was being followed.

When Trayvon was "checking Zimmerman out" while Zimmerman was on the phone with LE... why couldn't have Zimmerman simply asked "Yo! What's up Homie... are you new to the neighborhood?" If Trayvon got offended... it would have been caught on tape... Zimmerman would have been safely in his car... Police would have arrived and handled it?

MOO

[mercuriod]

Originally Posted by JeannaT

I guess I'm not following your thoughts . . .

It seems to me, that Bonaparte is taking issue with Tracy Martin's reporting than an officer called Zimmerman's record "squeaky clean". As in, no one said that to him.

I'm not sure about someone saying it, and someone else not correcting it.

It seems Bonaparte is saying no one said it.

Why, in the conversation where they inform parents that their minor child is dead, would the cop go on in detail that Zimmerman had been charged but went into a youthful offender program many years ago? I would think that wouldn't come up in an initial conversation about a deceased child.

Originally Posted by mercuriod

Youthful offender program? What youthful offender program did GZ go into, link please.

Originally Posted by Isabelle

I thought GZ was an adult when he went through anger management. Did LE kind of change that story, so it would sound better.

Isabelle, to answer your question, I don't know, I linked the post I was questioning where JeannaT stated that GZ went into a youthful offender program, and my question because I want to know where JeannaT got the "youthful offender program" information from, I do not believe this is true, I think it has been thrown out there trying to make GZ "look" better and I think it is untrue, which is why I asked for a link.

jmo, imo and all that jazz

[jaded cat]

For me, by virtue of GZ claiming self-defense or SYG, he exposes himself to additional scrutiny. He must defend his decision to the authorities. What has been said by him, by his father, by his lawyers or anyone is open to interpretation of the law. No matter what the media is squawking about, GZ would be better served if he would shut up and tell family members/lawyers defending him to shut up.

A very small part of my heart goes out GZ because he will have to live with this nanosecond of bad judgement for the rest of his life. I'm sure he didn't leave his house that night expecting to shoot a young man to death. Death came unexpectedly.

Tragedy lives on. I can't imagine or even try to bear the grief of TM's parents. Not a perfect child but one they were certainly proud of.

[Chris_Texas]

Originally Posted by JeannaT

The misconception here, is that he doesn't have to have authority to follow someone who is in public, while waiting for LE to show up and investigate.

Where would we be, as a society, if you saw something you thought was suspicious and you don't have a right to keep an eye on the person while the cop you just called is on the way?

Every American has the right to be left alone unless they are doing something illegal. Neither private citizens nor the police have the right or authority to follow, stop, or question random people when there is no probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed.

[doubt]

Originally Posted by Concerned Papa

In my earlier posts regarding his interview with Sean Hannity, I had been calling GZ's father Richard. His name is Robert. Thanks for not beating me over the head with that, but I think we owe Robert a big round of thanks because in <modsnip> he told in this interview, for the first time that I'm aware of, we are being told where George's truck was parked when he got out of it to follow TM.

With that mystery finally solved, let's take a look at what we KNOW <modsnip> for the rest of his story.

A LIE?

How do we know, you ask? Because every one of us HEARD what happened while the events of Robert Zimmerman's tale unfolded. We HEARD, and we HAVE the transcripts to prove it! Take a look at the image below:



(a) We know that GZ got out of his car and began following TM at [2:08] into the 911 call. We've all even heard his door alarm pinging as he exits the vehicle.

(b) We also know that 18 seconds later, at [2:26] we heard:

Using our documented walking rate for an adult male of 4.4 feet/sec, we can place the distance walked in this 18 seconds by GZ at 79 feet when he was asked/told/advised to discontinue following TM.

(c) Notice what RZ told Sean Hannity at this point:

He is saying that GZ continued walking down the sidewalk to the next street AFTER being told to stop following TM which is a distance of 140 feet from point to point. Using our 4.4 feet per second rule, that would put him at the end of the sidewalk at [2:58].

(d) Next Robert Zimmerman tells us this:

The distance shown above in yellow returning to "where the sidewalks meet" is 97 feet. Our distance/time calculation shows 22 seconds being required to arrive at the point where Robert Zimmerman says TM brutally attacked his son at [3:20].

<modsnip> Go to any 911 recording and listen. Go to any 911 transcript and read:

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WAS STILL TALKING TO THE 911 DISPATCHER when Robert Zimmerman says TM brutally attacked and beat his son. In fact, it is then and only then that the dispatcher asked GZ for an address for where he was parked!

I don't know what else there is to say. <modsnip>

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannit...hooting?page=1

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