17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19

[imamaze]

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Clarification on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue. I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:

At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.

Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information

Hope that helps clear this up.

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__________________

[Adrienne37]

Reposting my favorite picture of Trayvon! Rest in peace Trayvon. Justice is headed your way!


http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012...2--300x300.jpg

[LolaMoon08]

Are there payphones in Sanford anymore? I never see payphones here in SW Florida anymore? Most businesses have pulled them off their properties? I'm just asking because I wonder where the phone call came from? Payphone? Land Line? Cell Phone? Calls are not that hard to trace anymore?

I still can't understand what kind of call would make 15 officers and a helicopter show up? I think we can rule out 1) Bomb threat 2) Hostage situation.

I was thinking someone may have called in and said they were George and they were going to commit suicide? But that would NOT bring a helicopter?

Burglary? Someone breaking into Zimmerman's home? Would that many officers arrive? Would they really employ the helicopter for a non-violent burglary?

So confused! Any ideas?

[angelmom]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

Are there payphones in Sanford anymore? I never see payphones here in SW Florida anymore? Most businesses have pulled them off their properties? I'm just asking because I wonder where the phone call came from? Payphone? Land Line? Cell Phone? Calls are not that hard to trace anymore?

I still can't understand what kind of call would make 15 officers and a helicopter show up? I think we can rule out 1) Bomb threat 2) Hostage situation.

I was thinking someone may have called in and said they were George and they were going to commit suicide? But that would NOT bring a helicopter?

Burglary? Someone breaking into Zimmerman's home? Would that many officers arrive? Would they really employ the helicopter for a non-violent burglary?

So confused! Any ideas?

I agree. Although, those disposable cell phones are pretty anonymous, aren't they? I don't know, never bought one.

Could have been someone claiming to be a neighbor saying they thought they heard shots fired from inside GZ's house. I guess. I'm with you...

[Adrienne37]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

Are there payphones in Sanford anymore? I never see payphones here in SW Florida anymore? Most businesses have pulled them off their properties? I'm just asking because I wonder where the phone call came from? Payphone? Land Line? Cell Phone? Calls are not that hard to trace anymore?

I still can't understand what kind of call would make 15 officers and a helicopter show up? I think we can rule out 1) Bomb threat 2) Hostage situation.

I was thinking someone may have called in and said they were George and they were going to commit suicide? But that would NOT bring a helicopter?

Burglary? Someone breaking into Zimmerman's home? Would that many officers arrive? Would they really employ the helicopter for a non-violent burglary?

So confused! Any ideas?

Who knows Lola. The reporter couldn't even get the date correct so there is no telling what all took place. Sure seems like an over kill to me with the helicopter, etc. I guess Sanford PD is in CYA mode right now, better safe than sorry.



~jmo~

[Footwarrior]

Originally Posted by csziggy

If the last call from the girlfriend is accurate, it began AFTER Trayvon ran. Then there were four minutes when Trayvon was talking to her. GZ got off the phone with SPD about 19:13:40, leaving 2 minutes and twenty seconds that we don't know where he was. That gets us to 19:16 when the girlfriend's call is cut off and the 911 calls began to come into the SPD.

We know where they both were for at least that last 40+ seconds when we can hear the screaming on the 911 call (recording labeled Call 3 from the Sanford web site that has now been removed.).

I'm at the point where to me it does not matter who was chasing whom, who initiated the physical confrontation or threw the first blow - if there were any blows. To me, that last forty seconds of Trayvon begging for his life and screaming for help shows a period when Trayvon was NOT attacking GZ. During that forty seconds GZ made the choice to shoot that teenager. If I were on a jury, that forty second would prove to me that this was murder.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Good stuff. The timeline is really key to understanding this case. And if you want to listen to the recordings again, the Wikipedia article on Trayvon Martin has them.

The start time of call with Trayvon's girlfriend is only known the the nearest minute. We don't know if T-Mobile dropped the seconds or rounded to the nearest second to determine that time. The four minute call length has the same problem. But if his girlfriends description was accurate, it ended before the screaming started. And that would have been at least 15 seconds before the first 911 call. (It takes time for people to recognize a problem, call 911 and get an answer).

As for the clicking noises, to me they sound like GZ is running across gravel. Perhaps between the condo driveways or in the gap between buildings.

[songline]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

Reposting my favorite picture of Trayvon! Rest in peace Trayvon. Justice is headed your way!


http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012...2--300x300.jpg

It would have been great if they used this photo from the very start. It is a great picture.

[octobermoon]

LolaMoon,
You made me snort and laugh with the reference to the post-it note.

[LolaMoon08]

I don't know if anyone else has this feeling, but the whole call has my "Hinky Meter" on high? And I hate to keep on harping about it, but I just don't get it? Police know George moved out? They said they knew where he is?

It sounds like the police verified that it was a prank call, so it wouldn't have been a search warrant (that was my first thought when FT said he heard a bang... thought they busted in his door?). Plus, if it was a search warrant, I doubt that the SPD would have been involved since they are no longer in charge of this case, but there were Seminole County officers on scene? I wish it had been a search warrant because I would love to dig through Zimmerman's computer history (the nosy in me).

Think they'll release the call? It's a separate investigation?

[songline]

Originally Posted by angelmom

I agree. Although, those disposable cell phones are pretty anonymous, aren't they? I don't know, never bought one.

Could have been someone claiming to be a neighbor saying they thought they heard shots fired from inside GZ's house. I guess. I'm with you...

I love the saying at yoour signature. thanks angelmom

"When the last thing we notice is the color of skin, and the first thing we look for is the beauty within...we shall be free." Garth Brooks

[angelmom]

Originally Posted by songline

I love the saying at yoour signature. thanks angelmom

"When the last thing we notice is the color of skin, and the first thing we look for is the beauty within...we shall be free." Garth Brooks

Thanks. It's one of my favorite songs. If you click on the title it will take you to the YouTube video, but fair warning: you will cry. I still do every single time.

[Desdemona]

Originally Posted by Footwarrior

Good stuff. The timeline is really key to understanding this case. And if you want to listen to the recordings again, the Wikipedia article on Trayvon Martin has them.

The start time of call with Trayvon's girlfriend is only known the the nearest minute. We don't know if T-Mobile dropped the seconds or rounded to the nearest second to determine that time. The four minute call length has the same problem. But if his girlfriends description was accurate, it ended before the screaming started. And that would have been at least 15 seconds before the first 911 call. (It takes time for people to recognize a problem, call 911 and get an answer).

As for the clicking noises, to me they sound like GZ is running across gravel. Perhaps between the condo driveways or in the gap between buildings.

(BBM) I believe the clicking sounds came from the keyboard of the call-taker who was typing name, address and location information into the computer as he was getting it from the caller (GZ).
JMO

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by Footwarrior

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...&postcount=989
Were exactly was GZ at that point? He claims to have taken the cut through to the next street, then followed the same path back. But that doesn't really fit with where TM's body was found. GM could have been between TM and home.

Brought over from the previous thread. When you state "cut through", are you thinking sidewalk cut through? This is not where Zimmerman was when he didn't know the address - he was on the cut through street. He was trying to describe it during the call. He was telling them to take a left..no not a left..."it's the cut through, I don't know the address". If you look at the map, it is the street that curves around to the left and straightens out again. That is my understanding.

The police never actually walked Tracy Martin through the crime scene, by his own admission. He stated this during an interview on MSNBC.

JMO

[suzihawk]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

Who knows Lola. The reporter couldn't even get the date correct so there is no telling what all took place. Sure seems like an over kill to me with the helicopter, etc. I guess Sanford PD is in CYA mode right now, better safe than sorry.



~jmo~

What a shame they didn't care as much when a young black man was shot to death and lay dead in their morgue. JMO

[angelmom]

Okay, peeps, gotta go to bed. Sunrise service is going to come very early in the morning.

Happy Easter to all who celebrate!

[Dr.Fessel]

SIMMONS: Bill Cosby weighs in on Trayvon Martin case

By Deborah Simmons

-

The Washington Times


1:27 p.m., Saturday, April 7, 2012
Mugshot

ANALYSIS/OPINION:

“The gun.”

Those two simple words flowed easily from the mouth of social commentator Bill Cosby during an exclusive interview Friday regarding the Trayvon Martin case, arguably the most high-profile, citizen-on-citizen U.S. slaying facing the Obama administration.

Trayvon was killed Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla., by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, who told police that a “confrontation” with the unarmed 17-year-old led him to shoot in self-defense.

Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody,” he said.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...n-martin-case/

[Adrienne37]

Florida assailed over firearm laws..

Gun-control groups focus on 'stand your ground' and other lenient weapons regulations in response to the Trayvon Martin shooting.

SANFORD, Fla. — The night Trayvon Martin was shot to death, George Zimmerman was one of 1,903 residents in his ZIP code with a permit to carry a concealed handgun, state records show.

That amounts to about 6% of adults 21 and older — about the statewide average, and twice the rate of Texas.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,1639585.story

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel

SIMMONS: Bill Cosby weighs in on Trayvon Martin case

By Deborah Simmons

-

The Washington Times


1:27 p.m., Saturday, April 7, 2012
Mugshot

ANALYSIS/OPINION:

“The gun.”

Those two simple words flowed easily from the mouth of social commentator Bill Cosby during an exclusive interview Friday regarding the Trayvon Martin case, arguably the most high-profile, citizen-on-citizen U.S. slaying facing the Obama administration.

Trayvon was killed Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla., by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, who told police that a “confrontation” with the unarmed 17-year-old led him to shoot in self-defense.

Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody,” he said.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...n-martin-case/

I love Bill Cosby! I still watch The Cosby Show!

MY FAVORITE COSBY EPISODE:

Season 4 Episode 02 - Call of the Wild - YouTube

Season 4 Episode 02 - Call of the Wild - YouTube

Wish we still had television like this!

[songline]

Originally Posted by angelmom

Thanks. It's one of my favorite songs. If you click on the title it will take you to the YouTube video, but fair warning: you will cry. I still do every single time.

I loved it. THANKS it reminds me how great the human spirit is, and makes me more grateful to the Real life heroes who not only play hero on the big screen but do the kind of work that George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Damon And others do to contribute to social justice. Loved the vidio.

[songline]

Originally Posted by vlpate

Brought over from the previous thread. When you state "cut through", are you thinking sidewalk cut through? This is not where Zimmerman was when he didn't know the address - he was on the cut through street. He was trying to describe it during the call. He was telling them to take a left..no not a left..."it's the cut through, I don't know the address". If you look at the map, it is the street that curves around to the left and straightens out again. That is my understanding.

The police never actually walked Tracy Martin through the crime scene, by his own admission. He stated this during an interview on MSNBC.

JMO

then how did he know the walk his son took home and where he played when his body was found? He was told by the police.

[Adrienne37]

Originally Posted by vlpate

Brought over from the previous thread. When you state "cut through", are you thinking sidewalk cut through? This is not where Zimmerman was when he didn't know the address - he was on the cut through street. He was trying to describe it during the call. He was telling them to take a left..no not a left..."it's the cut through, I don't know the address". If you look at the map, it is the street that curves around to the left and straightens out again. That is my understanding.

The police never actually walked Tracy Martin through the crime scene, by his own admission. He stated this during an interview on MSNBC.

JMO

I posted this link last evening and asked you to please indicate where the "cut-through street" is you keep referencing in your posts. Could you please take a moment and point it out to me. TIA.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...0martin&st=cse



~jmo~

[raeann]

Originally Posted by vlpate

Brought over from the previous thread. When you state "cut through", are you thinking sidewalk cut through? This is not where Zimmerman was when he didn't know the address - he was on the cut through street. He was trying to describe it during the call. He was telling them to take a left..no not a left..."it's the cut through, I don't know the address". If you look at the map, it is the street that curves around to the left and straightens out again. That is my understanding.

The police never actually walked Tracy Martin through the crime scene, by his own admission. He stated this during an interview on MSNBC.

JMO

I keep seeing this repeated.....but according to the satellite view of the neighborhood.....there are only THREE streets in the entire neigborhood, but there are no cut through streets at all.....the cut through is a sidewalk, no street there.

jmo

edited to add....oops never mind, I see this has just been asked.....

[i.b.nora]

Originally Posted by deelytful1

FYI,, The reporter that issued the story about GZs home being "pranked" has retracted the story on her website.. WTH? It truly IS a full moon! I really wish MSM would be more responsible..

Do you have a link to her website? I looked at the article again and see no retraction which seems to me to be the proper place to RETRACT a false story. But, who am I to say?

[ThoughtFox]

Originally Posted by deelytful1

FYI,, The reporter that issued the story about GZs home being "pranked" has retracted the story on her website.. WTH? It truly IS a full moon! I really wish MSM would be more responsible..

Have you got a link to her website? The article is still there unchanged, and there's nothing on her Facebook or Twitter except confirmation that it was a prank. Maybe she means her story was a prank, or that she was pranked.

I don't criticize the media much, but this is ridiculous! At least get the day/week/month right, you know? Did she really talk to Frank Taafe at all?

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news...#ixzz1rOtiIRDR

Jennifer Bisram on FB: http://www.facebook.com/JenniferBisramFOX35
Jennifer Bisram on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/jennbisramtv

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

I posted this link last evening and asked you to please indicate where the "cut-through street" is you keep referencing in your posts. Could you please take a moment and point it out to me. TIA.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...0martin&st=cse



~jmo~

The only cut thru street would be Long Oak Way down by the back gate. There are only two other roads in the community Retreat View Circle and Twin Trees. jmo