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  #101  
Old 04-08-2012, 02:01 AM
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It's getting late and tomorrow is Easter, already Easter in various time zones. So I'm closing the thread for the night.

Have a wonderful Easter!

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  #102  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
I guess the point that puzzles me is, the SPD had already made the decision that he was innocent when they let him go with no charges. The only reason this situation has escalated to the point it has is because there is a public perception of guilt because of virtually no corroborating evidence of his story, which is borderline incredulous to many.

There would be no justice department investigation if anyone had shown tangible, believable evidence of a broken nose.

There would be no special prosecutor if there were pictures of the back of his head looking like it went through a meat grinder.

He was at the police station 36 minutes after he pulled the trigger looking fresh as a daisy to many!

If his story is true, why wouldn't the SPD want to diffuse this craziness that's swirling around their town when all it would take to start is some kind of reasonable evidence of his claims being true?

Do these people realize that their stonewalling the public of the truth, which ever way it lies, has brought all of this down on themselves?

< mod snip >

IMO, JHMO, MOO, etc.
IMHO the police did not do an investigation that is fair and balanced.
ONE MAN WAS DEAD and only ONE CAN TELL HIS SIDE.
But also IMHO we have become judge and jury without having all the information. but getting trapped by some pictures of a boy that is not a 12 year old child and a fat man.
there was not one ounce of truth within the impression those photos swirled around.
While some do not see GZ was bruised I do see it. While some don’t think that TM's gold tooth represents a very different boy then a little sweet red sweater boy... The media created a case. but IMO it is a different case not a civil one.
YES I do think as a result of all the hate. They do need to keep their cards close to the vest.
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  #103  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
Exactly! They went to all kinds of trouble releasing lots of evidence in the case like the partial police reports and 911 calls to justify what they did.

They even released burglary reports with the victims names, addresses and phone numbers to somehow justify what Zimmerman did.

But they refuse to release the reports on the clothing of both shooter and victim, refuse to release the info on Zimmerman's injuries or the ballistics of the gunshot or the witness statements.

and IMO

I see it very differently.
IMHO the media painted a very different case than the real case will prove to be.
I still wish it all happened very differently and no life was lost.
But I do not see a murderer. I see an overzealous cop want to be. But not a killer
I think the media who used to report news is now making news.
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Last edited by songline; 04-08-2012 at 08:14 AM.
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  #104  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songline View Post
I see it very differently.
IMHO the media painted a very different case than the real case will prove to be.
I still wish it all happened very differently and no life was lost.
But I do not see a murderer. I see an overzealous cop want to be. But not a killer
I think the media who used to report news is not making news.
I was just looking at the articles from the beginning and it has been under investigation from day one. I do believe that the "media" has made this what it is today. I do hope that the nbc producer is "outed" for what he/she has done in trying to make GZ a racist. jmo
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  #105  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
Trayvon wasn't shot walking down the street - according to police and eyewitnesses, he was shot while getting the best of a man half a foot smaller than him. According to the law in Florida, in a self-defense case, TM would be considered an adult, not a child.

I've looked, and I can't find a single case where a child was actually walking down the street and was shot by the owner of a concealed weapon - less than none where SYG law was a defense for such an act. However, cases where children and dozens of teenagers have been shot just walking down the street, riding in a car, or sitting outside/inside their house are countless. Where Trayvon lived, 7 innocent people were shot attending a funeral - there were 30 murders in March alone. In every case the shooters were armed with illegal firearms. Where's the outrage by either side??

Very few concealed handgun owners shoot innocent people. JMO

Disclaimer: The above is not an effort to make excuses for GZ and I truly am not trying to argue - I just can't "guess" what happened, I have to go by what has been said by LE & witnesses. As far as who confronted who - LE has stated the g/f's phone records are not consistent with what they have.

JMO
One could also say Trayvon was shot and killed BECAUSE he was walking down a street. For whatever reasons (I have my own ideas), that made him suspicious to Zimmerman so that he felt the need to pursue him. Had he not done that, there wouldn't have been the need for self defense on the part of either party.

That makes point regarding whether he was an adult in the eyes of the law according to ABC rather moot, IMO.

Trayvon Martin was minding his own business while walking down the street. Trayvon Martin was not an adult according the the law.

quote for reference:
Quote:
"While in life Trayvon Martin was barely 17, when it comes to justifiable homicide his size -- about 6-foot-3 and 150 pounds -- makes him an adult in death." ABC
MOO

Last edited by fran; 04-08-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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  #106  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:46 AM
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After looking at the distance between these two residences and the curve in the street preventing a line of sight between the two points, I’ve got a problem believing in Frank Taaffe’s ability to accurately tell us anything pertinent regarding whatever happened in this “prank” emergency response by SPD.



If I can’t believe what he says about this:

Quote:
"I woke up Sunday to Seminole county helicopters right above my sector of the community and I immediately felt very fearful," said Frank Taaffe, who lives at the Retreat at Twin Lakes community where Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

"It was a scary, scary time," he told FOX35 Friday.

"I ran out to the street and there were nine police cruisers out there - two Seminole and the other seven, Sanford."

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news...#ixzz1rRosu3Ge
How am I supposed to believe any of this?

Quote:
"George is a congenial, amiable, admirable person,” he said. "He had a passion and a care for this neighborhood to ensure the safety of everybody here. And, furthermore, George is no Rambo."

Taaffe said that Zimmerman was appointed as a watch captain, despite reports that he appointed himself to the post.

He said he believes his neighbor acted in self-defense, which is what Zimmerman told police.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...artins-shooter
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  #107  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris_Texas View Post
Ordinarily I agree (at least to a point), but not in this case. Silence is a request for trust that, in my opinion, LE has not earned. Just the opposite -- in my opinion they have earned our anger and mistrust.

Millions of people around the country are angry over what they perceive to be corruption, incompetence, or outright racism and civil rights violations on the part of law enforcement. It is past time for LE to come forward with the information they have so that the people of Florida and America can determine just how worthy of trust these people are. They decided to allow a child killer to go free, and it is well past time they justify this decision. If they cannot do so, then the people need to know.

In my opinion.

While I think LE did not do their job.
I also think this case has been trialed by the media, and public opinion.
Which is no better than the police departments lousy work.
The public has a right to a full investigation, but they to not have a right to all the information - nobody does.
This case has to have a thorough investigation and then we see what is real.
What the people think is only a product of what and how it has been presented to date.
No the people do not need all the information till the case can be presented properly.
No the people do not get to play judge and jury - even though they already have.
All the rest of the details should be held close to the vest until they can clear this case up properly.
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Last edited by songline; 04-08-2012 at 08:28 AM.
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  #108  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBean View Post
LOL I don't think the report was a prank I think someone called in a prank against Zimmerman- like they were going to blow up his house or something like that. Cops came out in force to handle it but it was just a prank threat.
Just the way I am reading it.

from the links:
>>Who made the call and what they said is now at the center of a new investigation, but the sheriff's office says it was enough to deploy police helicopters and detectives<<
Was this the home GZ ran from? He's in hiding, so is it the new 'home' or the one in the community where he killed Trayvon?

Either way, ol' GZ should be quite frightenend...could be the point..to frighten him, make him fear for his life as TM did...
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  #109  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by highflyer View Post
The same article states that Zimmerman is well over 200 pounds.


BBM
That article has to be wrong. (brother has been ill and weighs less now).
But just before he got ill. My brother is 6'2" WHICH IS a lot taller than Zimmerman his normal weight would be 185 lbs and -not he is not a skinny guy just average.
My friend here is 6 feet tall and he weighs 180 pounds and has a bit of a belly – he is not fat at all.
So this article with GZ weight can’t be right.
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  #110  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
One could also say Trayvon was shot and killed BECAUSE he was walking down a street. For whatever reasons (I have my own ideas), that made him suspicious to Zimmerman so that he felt the need to pursue him. Had he not done that, there wouldn't have been the need for self defense on the part of either party.

That makes your point regarding whether he was an adult in the eyes of the law according to ABC rather moot, IMO.

Trayvon Martin was minding his own business while walking down the street. Trayvon Martin was not an adult according the the law.

Your quote for reference:


MOO


But that is your perception and you have a right to see it that way.
those are not facts, unless or until proven.
I do not know that TM was minding his own business, I only know that
he was walking back from the 7/11 with skiddles and Ice tea.
I do not know what he was thinking at all.
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  #111  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songline View Post
BBM
That article has to be wrong. (brother has been ill and weighs less now).
But just before he got ill. My brother is 6'2" WHICH IS a lot taller than Zimmerman his normal weight would be 185 lbs and -not he is not a skinny guy just average.
My friend here is 6 feet tall and he weighs 180 pounds and has a bit of a belly – he is not fat at all.
So this article with GZ weight can’t be right.
BBM

Are you talking about George or his brother? I haven't read that either lost weight due to an illness. Link please?
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  #112  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by uvamerica View Post
Me thinks Mr.Taafe should take his "transparent comments" and go into hiding with George. No wonder why he sticks up for George , they both have the same mentality.
Quote:
Adding to the uncertainty and flux was the sense among some residents that this secured community was no longer so secure. There had been burglaries; at least seven in 2011, according to police reports. Strangers had started showing up, said Frank Taaffe, 55, a marketing specialist, originally from the Bronx, who works out of his home in the Retreat. He made it clear that he was not talking about just any strangers.

“There were Trayvon-like dudes with their pants down,” Mr. Taaffe said.
Last August, the homeowners association decided to create a neighborhood watch, and a Sanford police official came to the Retreat to explain the guidelines: volunteers do not possess police powers; they should not be armed; and they should be the eyes and ears for the police — but not vigilantes.

The group chose as its neighborhood watch coordinator the very man who had invited the official to speak: a man with thinning dark hair and an average build named George Zimmerman. The next month, the newsletter for the homeowners association included a cartoon of a man peering through a magnifying glass, à la Sherlock Holmes, next to a call for help: “We have recently experienced an increased incidence of crime within the community, including three break-ins in the past month, which is why having residents committed to being members of the Neighborhood Watch and reporting suspicious activities is so important. We must send a message that we will not tolerate this in our community!”

I believe the bolded portions of the quote do show the mentality this NW patrollers have and Trayvon was targeted due to his looks...whether that be clothing or color...It solidifies for me, the intent of GZ...we will not tolerate this in our community and he did take his NW stance way too far...it cost a teen his life...being in the right place at the wrong time...

I pray there will be justice...

Oh, even if RZ Sr., claims they have black relatives, doesn't mean GZ embraced that part of his genes...he certainly seems to have discrimination towards the way one dresses or looks...it means nothing...
  #113  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
After looking at the distance between these two residences and the curve in the street preventing a line of sight between the two points, I’ve got a problem believing in Frank Taaffe’s ability to accurately tell us anything pertinent regarding whatever happened in this “prank” emergency response by SPD.



If I can’t believe what he says about this:



How am I supposed to believe any of this?



With helicopters and 7 police cars you have trouble believing that there was a commotion there?
the distance is not great. DEFINITLY if we were in Frank’s house would hear the commotion.

The way I see it is that some have already played judge and Jury and would not see anything they do not wish to see.
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  #114  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
BBM

Are you talking about George or his brother? I haven't read that either lost weight due to an illness. Link please?
NO I was saying that MY brothers weight was 185 when he was well and he is 6'2" just made a comparison.
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  #115  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
Photo legend

Gold
Dispatcher: Ok you said it is 1111 Retreat View Circle or 111?
GZ: That's the club house
Dispatcher: He's near the club house right now?

Pink (*Indicates where a left would have been)
GZ: ....Yep, when you come to the club house you come straight in and make a left ...

Blue (*The first left is a through street, but he's trying to direct him to the street he's on, which is also a left, but not really - it cuts through and straightens out)
GZ: ...actually, you would go past the club house. (*still directing near club house)
Dispatcher: Oh, you say it's on the left hand side from the club house?
GZ: No, you go in, straight through the entrance and then you make a left, ummm, yeah you go straight in, don't turn and make a left.

*my notes
Great map to see where GZ started out and where he ended..It appears to me, he ran straight into TM instead of just going about his buisness and running that errand...his determination was evident, but had he just waited he would have seen TM going into the home he was staying at...but I believe GM made a grave error in judgement and should now have to stand by what he did...and he took a teens life, even tho' he knew this was a 'kid' by his own description to the dispatcher...too bad only one is alive to tell it true..I'm hoping the evidence supports the facts...the autopsy will tell much...which is now under ACory's investigation and she put a hold on any documents on this case...she is trying to preserve the integrity of her investigation...
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  #116  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
After looking at the distance between these two residences and the curve in the street preventing a line of sight between the two points, I’ve got a problem believing in Frank Taaffe’s ability to accurately tell us anything pertinent regarding whatever happened in this “prank” emergency response by SPD.



If I can’t believe what he says about this:



How am I supposed to believe any of this?
Well, there's nothing in that quote to say that he stopped on his own front door as far as I can see. He can have walked or ran a bit on the street until he was able to observe the police vehicles properly.
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  #117  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv View Post
I believe the bolded portions of the quote do show the mentality this NW patrollers have and Trayvon was targeted due to his looks...whether that be clothing or color...It solidifies for me, the intent of GZ...we will not tolerate this in our community and he did take his NW stance way too far...it cost a teen his life...being in the right place at the wrong time...

I pray there will be justice...

Oh, even if RZ Sr., claims they have black relatives, doesn't mean GZ embraced that part of his genes...he certainly seems to have discrimination towards the way one dresses or looks...it means nothing...
Sorry but many people have discrimination about how some people look especially how some teens want to look these days. It never made anyone into a killer.
I have escorted them out of the office when they walk in with their pants to the knees and their underpants showing. I have also cut interviews to 10 minutes when they come in inked all over.
Yes I have a right to create a proper image for a firm. So we do judge, we will judge, and we should judge. This does not make killers.

I also pray that there will be justice....

No matter what happens one side will not be happy.
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  #118  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songline View Post
Sorry but many people have discrimination about how some people look especially how some teens want to look these days. It never made anyone into a killer.
I have escorted them out of the office when they walk in with their pants to the knees and their underpants showing. I have also cut interviews to 10 minutes when they come in inked all over.
Yes I have a right to create a proper image for a firm. So we do judge, we will judge, and we should judge. This does not make killers.

I also pray that there will be justice....

No matter what happens one side will not be happy.
You are correct. However, I do believe that shooting someone to death makes a killer.

IMO there is a big difference in employers wanting their employees to dress in an appropriate way when they're representing the firm and stalking someone on the street because they're dressed wrong (in someone's subjective opinion).
  #119  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songline View Post



With helicopters and 7 police cars you have trouble believing that there was a commotion there?
the distance is not great. DEFINITLY if we were in Frank’s house would hear the commotion.

The way I see it is that some have already played judge and Jury and would not see anything they do not wish to see.
Don't have a problem believing he saw the helicopter, but possibly you could explain how, when he "ran out to the street", he was able to not only count the cars but read the agency names on the doors as well? Surely he didn't run down there from almost three football fields away and risk losing that intimate, "in the know" neighbor image he's been trying to project from the beginning?


JMO, JHMO, MOO, etc.
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  #120  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songline View Post
Sorry but many people have discrimination about how some people look especially how some teens want to look these days. It never made anyone into a killer.I have escorted them out of the office when they walk in with their pants to the knees and their underpants showing. I have also cut interviews to 10 minutes when they come in inked all over.
Yes I have a right to create a proper image for a firm. So we do judge, we will judge, and we should judge. This does not make killers.

I also pray that there will be justice....

No matter what happens one side will not be happy.
Only GZ took it too far...Of course, no matter what happens there will be one side not happy....GZ should have been arrested and not let go...if he's arrested or not, TM is still dead and Sanford Florida still has a hot head with a loaded weapon in their midst..he's dangerous with a violent temper and no one will be safe if he's left out on the streets..If you live in Sanford, educate your children, too bad TM didn't call 911....to report someone following HIM...


Quote:
Race, Tragedy and Outrage Collide After a Shot in Florida
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...ted=1&_r=4&hp#

Good read, 7 pages....this one stands out for me...

snipped from page 2....

Quote:
Adding to the uncertainty and flux was the sense among some residents that this secured community was no longer so secure. There had been burglaries; at least seven in 2011, according to police reports. Strangers had started showing up, said Frank Taaffe, 55, a marketing specialist, originally from the Bronx, who works out of his home in the Retreat. He made it clear that he was not talking about just any strangers.

“There were Trayvon-like dudes with their pants down,” Mr. Taaffe said.

Last August, the homeowners association decided to create a neighborhood watch, and a Sanford police official came to the Retreat to explain the guidelines: volunteers do not possess police powers; they should not be armed; and they should be the eyes and ears for the police — but not vigilantes.

The group chose as its neighborhood watch coordinator the very man who had invited the official to speak: a man with thinning dark hair and an average build named George Zimmerman. The next month, the newsletter for the homeowners association included a cartoon of a man peering through a magnifying glass, à la Sherlock Holmes, next to a call for help: “We have recently experienced an increased incidence of crime within the community, including three break-ins in the past month, which is why having residents committed to being members of the Neighborhood Watch and reporting suspicious activities is so important. We must send a message that we will not tolerate this in our community!”

To get involved, the newsletter said, “Call George Zimmerman.”
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  #121  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
Trayvon wasn't shot walking down the street - according to police and eyewitnesses, he was shot while getting the best of a man half a foot smaller than him. According to the law in Florida, in a self-defense case, TM would be considered an adult, not a child.

I've looked, and I can't find a single case where a child was actually walking down the street and was shot by the owner of a concealed weapon - less than none where SYG law was a defense for such an act. However, cases where children and dozens of teenagers have been shot just walking down the street, riding in a car, or sitting outside/inside their house are countless. Where Trayvon lived, 7 innocent people were shot attending a funeral - there were 30 murders in March alone. In every case the shooters were armed with illegal firearms. Where's the outrage by either side??

Very few concealed handgun owners shoot innocent people. JMO

Disclaimer: The above is not an effort to make excuses for GZ and I truly am not trying to argue - I just can't "guess" what happened, I have to go by what has been said by LE & witnesses. As far as who confronted who - LE has stated the g/f's phone records are not consistent with what they have.

JMO
I'm sure you can produce a link for this bit of information because I would really like to see that.



~jmo~
  #122  
Old 04-08-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
Don't have a problem believing he saw the helicopter, but possibly you could explain how, when he "ran out to the street", he was able to not only count the cars but read the agency names on the doors as well? Surely he didn't run down there from almost three football fields away and risk losing that intimate, "in the know" neighbor image he's been trying to project from the beginning?


JMO, JHMO, MOO, etc.
Maybe he assumed GZ's duties??? jmo
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  #123  
Old 04-08-2012, 09:03 AM
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Concerned Papa Concerned Papa is offline
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Wonder how long he's been trying to get mileage out of this?



http://www.scribd.com/heidi_vries/d/...cademy-in-2008
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But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops. Luke 12, 2-3

  #124  
Old 04-08-2012, 09:05 AM
Adrienne37 Adrienne37 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songline View Post
Sorry but many people have discrimination about how some people look especially how some teens want to look these days. It never made anyone into a killer.
I have escorted them out of the office when they walk in with their pants to the knees and their underpants showing. I have also cut interviews to 10 minutes when they come in inked all over.
Yes I have a right to create a proper image for a firm. So we do judge, we will judge, and we should judge. This does not make killers.

I also pray that there will be justice....

No matter what happens one side will not be happy.
< mod snip > You say that you judge which is certainly your right but believe it or not, there are people out there (myself included) who don't. I have never judged someone based on the clothes they wear or the number of tattoos they have on their skin. The true qualities of an individual lie on the inside, not in the clothes they wear and not because they have tattoos.


~jmo~

Last edited by fran; 04-08-2012 at 09:58 AM. Reason: unnecessary
  #125  
Old 04-08-2012, 09:07 AM
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suzihawk suzihawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
Well, there's nothing in that quote to say that he stopped on his own front door as far as I can see. He can have walked or ran a bit on the street until he was able to observe the police vehicles properly.
Odd, considering how it created him so much 'angst' and he felt 'very fearful'. I wouldn't walk in the direction of possible danger if I felt it was a 'scary, scary time' But that's just me and I'm not a busybody.

MOO
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