Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Crimes and Trials > Trials > Victoria Stafford

Notices

Victoria Stafford discuss all aspects of this case!


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:03 PM
CarrieBean's Avatar
CarrieBean CarrieBean is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincanada View Post
As much as I think MR is guilty of something, I was expecting way more from the crown to prove the sexual assault charges. So far, nothing. I'm baffled. It appears they have nothing but TLM's story to base this charge on.
TLM's story that is being proven bit by bit, Tori's blood mixed with semen (dropped there at different times - highly doubt it), and not to mention the fact that she had no clothes on her lower body.

If I understand right, the only direct evidence is TLM's testimony, but there should be enough circumstantial evidence to come to the conclusion.
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to CarrieBean For This Useful Post:
  #202  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:03 PM
~n/t~'s Avatar
~n/t~ ~n/t~ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,122
Sorry I haven't been able to help with the tweets the last 2 days. I take one week off work and come back to disaster.

MR was arrested May 19th, correct? I wonder when LE questioned these witnesses? Do we know if they checked the dump site for the car seat? I don't remember. Too late now but I guess I'm wondering if they did or didn't and if they did, was one or two month too much time lapse to retrieve something from a dump site.
__________________
Justice for Holly Bobo🎀
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ~n/t~ For This Useful Post:
  #203  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:04 PM
matou's Avatar
matou matou is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,379
Was it explained where sperm fractions or whole sperm cells come from, if not semen? I'm sorry, I just don't get it. JMO
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to matou For This Useful Post:
  #204  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:05 PM
Ardy Ardy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 546
JMO........The inside of the car was painted white before the abduction, and it wasn't "whitewashed" after the crime to hide evidence, as many had surmised.

The only evidence found on MR's pea coat that TLM said was used to cover VS in the back seat for a couple of hours, only contained 2 hair fibers, one which belonged to MR and one unknown female........but not VS. Where is the DNA?.....even saliva DNA..........nothing from VS?

The cut out chunks of foam appeared in the April pile of garbage, along with the car seat.

Didn't TLM testify she cut them out and threw them out the window along the 401?

MOO
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Ardy For This Useful Post:
  #205  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:06 PM
~n/t~'s Avatar
~n/t~ ~n/t~ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsoul2 View Post
That's why LE said they couldn't look through all the garbage apparently tons of it because it was too late by the time they were on to him to retrieve that car seat.
Thanks...you answered my question.
__________________
Justice for Holly Bobo🎀
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ~n/t~ For This Useful Post:
  #206  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:07 PM
Ardy Ardy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieBean View Post
TLM's story that is being proven bit by bit, Tori's blood mixed with semen (dropped there at different times - highly doubt it), and not to mention the fact that she had no clothes on her lower body.

If I understand right, the only direct evidence is TLM's testimony, but there should be enough circumstantial evidence to come to the conclusion.
I thought the expert said there was no semen present?
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ardy For This Useful Post:
  #207  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:07 PM
~n/t~'s Avatar
~n/t~ ~n/t~ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardy View Post
JMO........The inside of the car was painted white before the abduction, and it wasn't "whitewashed" after the crime to hide evidence, as many had surmised.

The only evidence found on MR's pea coat that TLM said was used to cover VS in the back seat for a couple of hours, only contained 2 hair fibers, one which belonged to MR and one unknown female........but not VS. Where is the DNA?.....even saliva DNA..........nothing from VS?

The cut out chunks of foam appeared in the April pile of garbage, along with the car seat.

Didn't TLM testify she cut them out and threw them out the window along the 401?

MOO
How do you think Tori got to Mount Forest? Hitchhiked?
__________________
Justice for Holly Bobo🎀
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to ~n/t~ For This Useful Post:
  #208  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:07 PM
nettie_82 nettie_82 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 624
I believe it has been said by various witnesses this far there were blankets in the back seat, I wonder if these blankets were ever found, or have ever been tested for DNA. MTR could have had a blanket laid out over the back seat during the rape and therefore not leaving much DNA evidence on the actual seat. Just a thought, nothing to back that up.
__________________
Our memories shape us, providing a backdrop for our daily lives, a context for our actions, a rationale for our sometimes dubious decisions. Who we are today is inextricably woven through with memories of who we were yesterday, and the days before that.
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to nettie_82 For This Useful Post:
  #209  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:10 PM
CarrieBean's Avatar
CarrieBean CarrieBean is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardy View Post
I thought the expert said there was no semen present?
I'm sure someone else is keeping much better track of all this and can find it, but if I'm not mistaken there was semen present in the one spot of TS's blood...just not enough to determine's who's.
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to CarrieBean For This Useful Post:
  #210  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:10 PM
snoofer's Avatar
snoofer snoofer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyladi View Post
I'm sorry DNA evidence may not be 100% conclusive but tlm testimony matches up almost completely. He is going down. He was there for the kidnapping he had the car he drove tlm to home depot knowing what she was going to buy he found the spot that was secluded in moo, he could have drove away, called police or atoll topped it from happening and he didn't he lied, destroyed evidence and thought that he would never get caught. Even if they can't prove the rape he is going down. Nothing destine can say will take away from the facts .
and if they acted together as the crown says..what is the motivator for a male to do this....statistics say it is sexual in nature
__________________
As always, JMO

Evil is; as evil does.


Prayers for Jun Lin, his family and those that love him.
Justice is patient, relentless in its pursuit and is on the march for Justin Lin....
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to snoofer For This Useful Post:
  #211  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:11 PM
~n/t~'s Avatar
~n/t~ ~n/t~ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by matou View Post
Was it explained where sperm fractions or whole sperm cells come from, if not semen? I'm sorry, I just don't get it. JMO
I wish we had expert forensic analysts here to explain all of this in layperson terms for us.

I was hoping the Crown would have redirected and summarized it nicely. They haven't been doing that and it is really bugging me!!!!!! Perhaps what the tweets are not as detailed as direct testimony in court and we're just getting the bits and pieces and not the full picture??

I just hope this jury GETS IT!
__________________
Justice for Holly Bobo🎀
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to ~n/t~ For This Useful Post:
  #212  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:11 PM
CarrieBean's Avatar
CarrieBean CarrieBean is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
How do you think Tori got to Mount Forest? Hitchhiked?
Or MR's remote control car TLM brought to Home Depot
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to CarrieBean For This Useful Post:
  #213  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:11 PM
matou's Avatar
matou matou is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,379
Here's the thing, Tori's blood was found with at least a sperm fraction. How did the sperm fraction get there? Even if the nuclear DNA from the sperm fraction is not enough to profile, it is still a sperm. Sperm comes from that male ejaculate. I think the jury knows enough about how that works. JMO
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to matou For This Useful Post:
  #214  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:11 PM
snoofer's Avatar
snoofer snoofer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,169
the expert said the seat fibers found had been cut. TLM used HIS knife. JMO
__________________
As always, JMO

Evil is; as evil does.


Prayers for Jun Lin, his family and those that love him.
Justice is patient, relentless in its pursuit and is on the march for Justin Lin....
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to snoofer For This Useful Post:
  #215  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:11 PM
daisy.faithfull's Avatar
daisy.faithfull daisy.faithfull is offline
RIP Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joey Jr.
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by matou View Post
Was it explained where sperm fractions or whole sperm cells come from, if not semen? I'm sorry, I just don't get it. JMO
Go back a bit in the thread for the little bit I got for a definition, but here is the link where I got it: http://books.google.com/books?id=LnK...action&f=false

ETA: I guess when they are analyzing the sperm they process it with some chemicals and the result is called sperm fraction.

So the sperm was found in the car, taken to the lab, they use whatever chemicals and the result is sperm faction.

Plus I fixed an autocorrect error
__________________
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to daisy.faithfull For This Useful Post:
  #216  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:13 PM
CarrieBean's Avatar
CarrieBean CarrieBean is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,912
I wonder if a vacuum cleaner or shop vac canister was removed from MR's home for testing
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to CarrieBean For This Useful Post:
  #217  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:14 PM
Sailor Bug's Avatar
Sailor Bug Sailor Bug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by matou View Post
Was it explained where sperm fractions or whole sperm cells come from, if not semen? I'm sorry, I just don't get it. JMO
I don't get it...but I'm going to start reading

DNA Testing: An Introduction For Non-Scientists
An Illustrated Explanation


Analysis of Separated Sperm and Non-Sperm Fractions.

In order to perform DNA typing on sperm DNA, it is desirable to separate the sperm DNA from any other DNA that may be present. For example, in swabbed materials from a rape evidence kit, the swabs may contain non-sperm cells from the victim as well as sperm and non-sperm cells from the rapist. To accomplish separation of the sperm cells, a process known as differential extraction is often performed. This involves lysing (breaking open) the non-sperm cells followed by spinning (centrifugation) the mixture to remove the still unbroken sperm cells. To do this, chemicals, usually an enzyme called proteinase K (PROTEIN-ACE-K) (breaks down most proteins), and a mild detergent (breaks down cellular membranes) are added to the original mixture of sperm and non-sperm cells. The enzyme and the mild detergent can lyse most cell types but not sperm because the sperm cell membranes have cross-linking chemical bonds called disulfides (pronounced DI-SUL-FIDES). Actually, the illustration below is slightly incorrect because the proteinase K does remove most of the sperm tails. These were left in the illustration to assist in following what happens to the sperm.
When the treated mixture is spun in a centrifuge, the sperm are forced to the bottom of the tube because they are dense. On the other hand, the broken, non-sperm cells are not very dense so they stay higher in the tube. This higher portion is called the supernatant and after the first spin in the centrifuge, the supernatant can be removed. The supernatant is referred to in various ways but usually it is called the non-sperm or the E1 fraction. The pellet (the material at the bottom of the tube) is called the sperm or E2 fraction. Usually, the pellet will be re-suspended in fresh liquid and re-spun to help purify it away from non-sperm DNA.

Finally, the sperm fraction is lysed (the sperm cells broken open) by adding a chemical called DTT. The DTT breaks the disulfide bonds releasing the sperm DNA.

The description of this procedure so far is quite ideal. It works pretty much as described for fresh samples. Even with fresh samples however, some of the non-sperm DNA will be trapped in the sperm pellet. This can be a major problem if the amount of sperm is very low or if the samples are aged and degraded. Often male cells, most likely immature sperm or white cells may end up in the supernatant, variously called the “female” fraction or “non-sperm” fraction

There are illustrations in the link




http://www.scientific.org/tutorials/...ley/riley.html
__________________
"The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Sailor Bug For This Useful Post:
  #218  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:15 PM
CarrieBean's Avatar
CarrieBean CarrieBean is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy.faithfull View Post
Go back a bit in the thread for the little bit I got for a definition, buheists is the link where I got it: http://books.google.com/books?id=LnK...action&f=false

I guess when they are analyzing the sperm they process it with some chemicals and the result is called sperm fraction.
I think what she's asking, and I'm wondering as well, is where did the sperm come from originally, if not from semen?
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to CarrieBean For This Useful Post:
  #219  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:15 PM
~n/t~'s Avatar
~n/t~ ~n/t~ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieBean View Post
Or MR's remote control car TLM brought to Home Depot
I had to re read that a couple of times until I finally got it!!
__________________
Justice for Holly Bobo🎀
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ~n/t~ For This Useful Post:
  #220  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Macright Macright is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by matou View Post
@AM980_Court
  • Griswold says he noticed Rafferty remove the seat and put it in his shed March 29th, 09. He is read his synopsis, now remembers.
@AM980_Court
  • Derstine asks if chunks were cut out of the seat. Griswold says no. Just one cut. No more questions.

so the seat was removed the end of March and then thrown out with the general pickup in the area mid April...scratch another from TLM statement about cutting out parts of a back seat and thus the reason TS had to sit on the floor...wonder when we will find out the "car wash" was a figment of her imagination...I still believe he was there at the scene but his role is what I am having difficulty in trying to figure out... I also don't think he was "dating" TLM..more likely using her to obtain drugs... as they say..."hell has no fury"...
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Macright For This Useful Post:
  #221  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Ardy Ardy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by nettie_82 View Post
I believe it has been said by various witnesses this far there were blankets in the back seat, I wonder if these blankets were ever found, or have ever been tested for DNA. MTR could have had a blanket laid out over the back seat during the rape and therefore not leaving much DNA evidence on the actual seat. Just a thought, nothing to back that up.
That's a good point.

I am surprised that neither of the witnesses said anything about any blood on the seat. They also didn't say there were "chunks" cut out of it.......just that is was "ripped". There was foam also in the garbage, which could have been from the seats, or if he was installing speakers could have come from the packaging of the speakers......JMO

I
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ardy For This Useful Post:
  #222  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:21 PM
CarrieBean's Avatar
CarrieBean CarrieBean is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macright View Post
so the seat was removed the end of March and then thrown out with the general pickup in the area mid April...scratch another from TLM statement about cutting out parts of a back seat and thus the reason TS had to sit on the floor...wonder when we will find out the "car wash" was a figment of her imagination...I still believe he was there at the scene but his role is what I am having difficulty in trying to figure out... I also don't think he was "dating" TLM..more likely using her to obtain drugs... as they say..."hell has no fury"...
I'm not understanding what you mean in the bolded part. I didn't follow all of her testimony, but think she said she cut the seat after Tori was murdered due to a stain.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to CarrieBean For This Useful Post:
  #223  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:26 PM
daisy.faithfull's Avatar
daisy.faithfull daisy.faithfull is offline
RIP Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joey Jr.
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieBean View Post
I think what she's asking, and I'm wondering as well, is where did the sperm come from originally, if not from semen?
Is it possible that that was an error on the part of the journalist/tweeter?

I guess none of us here are specialists at this stuff, but where else would sperm come from? I'm going to look on google some more..........
__________________
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to daisy.faithfull For This Useful Post:
  #224  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:26 PM
Macright Macright is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieBean View Post
I'm not understanding what you mean in the bolded part. I didn't follow all of her testimony, but think she said she cut the seat after Tori was murdered due to a stain.

sorry didn't post that correctly..brain thinking but fingers not staying in sync..what I meant was TLM said she cut pieces out of a seat that from what we heard today did not exist at the time of the murder..so scratch that from her statement of truth.. she also mentioned that little TS had to sit on the floor in the back so that would seem to have some truth to it IF the seat had been removed March 29 as the witness said today...
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Macright For This Useful Post:
  #225  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:26 PM
snoofer's Avatar
snoofer snoofer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macright View Post
so the seat was removed the end of March and then thrown out with the general pickup in the area mid April...scratch another from TLM statement about cutting out parts of a back seat and thus the reason TS had to sit on the floor...wonder when we will find out the "car wash" was a figment of her imagination...I still believe he was there at the scene but his role is what I am having difficulty in trying to figure out... I also don't think he was "dating" TLM..more likely using her to obtain drugs... as they say..."hell has no fury"...

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFPReply
Retweet

Favorite
Open

Pushie described it as the seat portion of a back seat He said the clean up happened about a week after Easter in 2009
1:47 PM - 12 Apr 12via web DetailsReply
Retweet


London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFPReply
Retweet

Favorite
Open

Pushie said he never spoke to Rafferty. He told police in Spring 2009 that he saw the car seat in front of Rafferty's home covered by couch

QUACK QUACK
__________________
As always, JMO

Evil is; as evil does.


Prayers for Jun Lin, his family and those that love him.
Justice is patient, relentless in its pursuit and is on the march for Justin Lin....
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to snoofer For This Useful Post:
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trial Thread 4/5/2012 nursebeeme Victoria Stafford 389 04-05-2012 03:42 PM
trial thread: 3/23/2012 nursebeeme Victoria Stafford 575 03-24-2012 12:17 PM
trial thread: 3/22/2012 imamaze Victoria Stafford 568 03-23-2012 07:30 AM
trial thread; 3/6/2012 nursebeeme Victoria Stafford 433 03-07-2012 07:40 AM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:59 PM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!