17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #27

[imamaze]

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[Adrienne37]

Protesters want fire captain punished...

MIAMI (WSVN) -- Demonstrators want a South Florida fire captain punished after he ranted about the Trayvon Martin case on his Facebook page.
Protesters gathered at the Stephen P. Clark Center in Downtown Miami, Wednesday afternoon, holding up signs that read: "I am a parent not pathetic."


Read more: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/lo...#ixzz1sPmsyv7D

[AngelWings444]

Brought over from other thread, got caught in the door.
suzihawk
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,013

I'm so sorry.
-------------------------------------------------
Thanks Suzihawk! I never post personal information but couldn't let this one go, based on personal experience.

I knew from the moment I saw the sheriff video, GZ was not a victim of a beating. He wouldn't have been able to walk in the manner in which he did, both physically and emotionally. He was as calm as a cucumber. One that is beaten does not act like he did on that evening. Furthermore, he would struggle to walk due to injuries all over his body, he would feel like a truck just ran him over, especially over the next few days. He would have bruises all over his body, in the areas I mentioned, as well as others. He would have bruises on bruises. He certainly wouldn't be able to move his belongings. If he had any type of cut on the head or a nose injury, there would be blood all over, and it would not have stopped bleeding in a 1/2 hour. No way.

JMO and thank you again.

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

Protesters want fire captain punished...

MIAMI (WSVN) -- Demonstrators want a South Florida fire captain punished after he ranted about the Trayvon Martin case on his Facebook page.
Protesters gathered at the Stephen P. Clark Center in Downtown Miami, Wednesday afternoon, holding up signs that read: "I am a parent not pathetic."


Read more: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/lo...#ixzz1sPmsyv7D

Hasn't FB been around long enough where people know not to do any sort of ranting on FB, especially if you have an upper position of say, a fire captain?

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by AngelWings444

Brought over from other thread, got caught in the door.
suzihawk
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,013

I'm so sorry.
-------------------------------------------------
Thanks Suzihawk! I never post personal information but couldn't let this one go, based on personal experience.

I knew from the moment I saw the sheriff video, GZ was not a victim of a beating. He wouldn't have been able to walk in the manner in which he did, both physically and emotionally. He was as calm as a cucumber. One that is beaten does not act like he did on that evening. Furthermore, he would struggle to walk due to injuries all over his body, he would feel like a truck just ran him over, especially over the next few days. He would have bruises all over his body, in the areas I mentioned, as well as others. He would have bruises on bruises. He certainly wouldn't be able to move his belongings. If he had any type of cut on the head or a nose injury, there would be blood all over, and it would not have stopped bleeding in a 1/2 hour. No way.

JMO and thank you again.

I think the point of the SYG law (which GZ will be trying to claim) is you don't have to actually get hurt to claim self defense, just be in fear of getting hurt.

[octobermoon]

Originally Posted by cityslick

Hasn't FB been around long enough where people know not to do any sort of ranting on FB, especially if you have an upper position of say, a fire captain?

I guess not. I don't have a "real" one myself, but have read a bunch from the cases here I have followed. Unbelievable what people put out there.

[Adrienne37]

Dianne Feinstein Places Hold On Controversial Concealed Weapon Bills

"In recent weeks, our nation has witnessed tragic gun violence in Sanford, Florida and in Oakland, California, which is only a short drive from my home. Notably, George Zimmerman, the man who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, had been issued a concealed carry permit under Florida law, even though he had previously been subject to a court order for domestic abuse of his ex-fiancée. Congress should heed the warnings of law enforcement and not force states to recognize the permits issued to individuals by other states."

In putting a hold on both bills, the "National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012," and the "Respecting States' Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012," Feinstein is denying them the easiest avenue of passage: unanimous consent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ef=mostpopular

[suzihawk]

Originally Posted by cityslick

Hasn't FB been around long enough where people know not to do any sort of ranting on FB, especially if you have an upper position of say, a fire captain?

Apparently not. I recently fired an employee for posting about a political argument she got into with a patron in my place of business (which never should have happened to begin with). She was ranting about what a jerk this customer was on FB. Nope! Not happening in my place of business!

MOO

[lillygator]

As a Floridian, we walk/run/dance/play/run errands/ in the rain? It's what we do! If we didn't leave our homes everytime it rained here... we would never get anything done. I see you are a Gator fan, so I can only assume that you have lived in Florida?

Walking in the rain in Florida is like walking in the snow up North.

the bolded I brought over from the other thread - not sure how to quote it correctly but it was posted by lolamoon...


I have lived in FL my entire life - of course we go out in the rain, like in our cars, etc....but if it is pouring out no one would be walking to the corner store. I don't see too many people out walking or dancing in the rain, most are trying to get out of it.

[AngelWings444]

Originally Posted by cityslick

I think the point of the SYG law (which GZ will be trying to claim) is you don't have to actually get hurt to claim self defense, just be in fear of getting hurt.

I understand that, but his family is claiming his head was beaten on the concrete , and some people are claiming GZ was straddled and beaten. I wasn't talking about the SYG law. Since you mentioned it though, if he did not have injuries, I doubt this will go his way. JMO

[Inabsentia]

Originally Posted by cityslick

I think the point of the SYG law (which GZ will be trying to claim) is you don't have to actually get hurt to claim self defense, just be in fear of getting hurt.

But, if you have already claimed to have been beaten and suffered severe injuries, but have been discredited, do you then get to claim that you were oops, uninjured but in mortal fear?
I feel that is what is happening here, the statute may state that you only have to be in fear for your life, but if you choose to go whole hog and claim a terrible beating was administered, then, when that beating doesn't seem to be supported by the evidence available, I am not going to find your claims of mortal fear credible either. Moo

With every new piece of evidence that has cast doubt about Zimmerman's terrible injuries, his family has come forward with a slightly tweaked version of the story to account (as best they can) for it. I don't believe any of it now. Moo

[Donjeta]

Concerned Papa, regarding the maps in

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

I'm looking at the shadows and the parked cars and wondering if the two maps are mirrored (top and bottom reversed?)

[Adrienne37]

I have to wonder if anyone dared to think that Trayvon might have actually got caught in the rain while he was in the store? I mean seriously. All this talk about why he was walking in the rain is really ridiculous. I guess it's perfectly reasonable to be in the rain if you are Zimmerman but heaven forbid if it's Trayvon.


~jmo~

[Concerned Papa]

Originally Posted by cityslick

I think the point of the SYG law (which GZ will be trying to claim) is you don't have to actually get hurt to claim self defense, just be in fear of getting hurt.

As I understand it, you are correct. However, the problem for his defense is possibly going to center around documented evidence as to the body's location. Remember, only 18 seconds lapsed during the 911 call between GZ getting out of his vehicle and the 911 dispatcher's admonition not to follow TM. That doesn't allow for much more than 100 feet of travel on GZ's part.

Any altercation that happened beyound that point would, to me, seem to be as a result of "Pursuing Your Ground" as opposed to "Standing Your Ground".

I'm aware of several different locations having been given for the body, but if the SPD report and the SFD's dispatch recordings are correct, TM's body was 200 feet +/- from where GZ got out of his truck.

IMO, if that's the case, he's got a huge problem in proving a SYG defense against an unarmed 17 year old kid who was breaking no laws.

[Donjeta]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

I have to wonder if anyone dared to think that Trayvon might have actually got caught in the rain while he was in the store? I mean seriously. All this talk about why he was walking in the rain is really ridiculous. I guess it's perfectly reasonable to be in the rain if you are Zimmerman but heaven forbid if it's Trayvon.


~jmo~

Because Zimmerman had to catch all the dangerous rainwalkers.

[gator]

Originally Posted by cityslick

I think the point of the SYG law (which GZ will be trying to claim) is you don't have to actually get hurt to claim self defense, just be in fear of getting hurt.

If I were on GZ's jury, I would be incredibly skeptical of this SYG claim, given GZ's apparent lack of serious injuries. I don't think someone can reasonably fear great bodily harm or death from an unarmed teenager unless it could be proven that that teen was beating him mercilessly (head on concrete seems about the right breaking point to reach for the gun - though I don't believe for one minute that TM was beating GZ's head on the concrete). Anything less severe than that wouldn't fly with me for SYG.

That said, I believe GZ initiated the confrontation, so I think SYG is a moot point.

JMO.

[Concerned Papa]

Originally Posted by Donjeta

Concerned Papa, regarding the maps in Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

I'm looking at the shadows and the parked cars and wondering if the two maps are mirrored (top and bottom reversed?)

LOL, yes they are reversed. Good catch. I've flipped those things around in every different position trying to understand this deal.

In the top image North is up, but down in the lower dark image.

Sorry for any confusion.

[suzihawk]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

I have to wonder if anyone dared to think that Trayvon might have actually got caught in the rain while he was in the store? I mean seriously. All this talk about why he was walking in the rain is really ridiculous. I guess it's perfectly reasonable to be in the rain if you are Zimmerman but heaven forbid if it's Trayvon.


~jmo~

^This.so.much.^

Thank God he didn't have an umbrella, huh? Imagine the allegations re: deadly weapon, etc.

Unbelieveable.

IMO

[gxm]

Originally Posted by AngelWings444

Brought over from other thread, got caught in the door.
suzihawk
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,013

I'm so sorry.
-------------------------------------------------
Thanks Suzihawk! I never post personal information but couldn't let this one go, based on personal experience.

I knew from the moment I saw the sheriff video, GZ was not a victim of a beating. He wouldn't have been able to walk in the manner in which he did, both physically and emotionally. He was as calm as a cucumber. One that is beaten does not act like he did on that evening. Furthermore, he would struggle to walk due to injuries all over his body, he would feel like a truck just ran him over, especially over the next few days. He would have bruises all over his body, in the areas I mentioned, as well as others. He would have bruises on bruises. He certainly wouldn't be able to move his belongings. If he had any type of cut on the head or a nose injury, there would be blood all over, and it would not have stopped bleeding in a 1/2 hour. No way.

JMO and thank you again.

First my condolence for your injuries and attack. I hope you are recovered and well.

I went through a similar attack to the one GZ describes and I did not bleed all over the place. My attacker focused on my head and face, surprising me from behind, throwing a punch as I turned, sending me to my knees and repeatedly punching me in the face and once I was laid out, slamming the back of my head into the floor again and again. I did not bleed profusely. I do not recall injuries or bruising to anywhere other than my head and face. The painful lumps on my scalp were not visible as I had long hair. The bruising and swelling on my face was severe, the bruising lasted for what seemed like forever and my left eye socket was sensitive for years. I was able to walk and, although I was an emotional wreck, I became very quiet and withdrawn which may have been perceived as "calm as a cucumber" but I was nothing near calm on the inside.

IMO, I would like to know what GZ looked like the morning after as I believe that's when the bruising would really start to show. We've heard some statements from neighbors that he was wearing bandages and his nose appeared swollen, but I wonder how good a look they got of him. IOW, I don't feel that the statements, as they stand, tell us a whole lot.

I've found GZ's account to be believable and I think his demeanor can be attributed to shock. However, I doubt he was beaten as badly as you or I. Still, I understand the overwhelming fear that your skull won't be able to withstand another blow which IMO makes a "reasonable" self defense claim. I put the word reasonable in scare quotes because I don't personally find it reasonable but I can understand why other people, and the law, would.

ETA: I feel you on the personal experience. Whether or not GZ is to be believed, this case has really brought back some bad memories that I've had to revisit and rethink. And it's added a level of emotional connection I can't shake. Totally OT but I just wanted to say I'm with you on that!

JMO, OMO, and

[Phoenixfla]

Originally Posted by gxm

First my condolence for your injuries and attack. I hope you are recovered and well.

I went through a similar attack to the one GZ describes and I did not bleed all over the place. My attacker focused on my head and face, surprising me from behind, throwing a punch as I turned, sending me to my knees and repeatedly punching me in the face and once I was laid out, slamming the back of my head into the floor again and again. I did not bleed profusely. I do not recall injuries or bruising to anywhere other than my head and face. The painful lumps on my scalp were not visible as I had long hair. The bruising and swelling on my face was severe, the bruising lasted for what seemed like forever and my left eye socket was sensitive for years. I was able to walk and, although I was an emotional wreck, I became very quiet and withdrawn which may have been perceived as "calm as a cucumber" but I was nothing near calm on the inside.

IMO, I would like to know what GZ looked like the morning after as I believe that's when the bruising would really start to show. We've heard some statements from neighbors that he was wearing bandages and his nose appeared swollen, but I wonder how good a look they got of him. IOW, I don't feel that the statements, as they stand, tell us a whole lot.

I've found GZ's account to be believable and I think his demeanor can be attributed to shock. However, I doubt he was beaten as badly as you or I. Still, I understand the overwhelming fear that your skull won't be able to withstand another blow which IMO makes a "reasonable" self defense claim. I put the word reasonable in scare quotes because I don't personally find it reasonable but I can understand why other people, and the law, would.

ETA: I feel you on the personal experience. Whether or not GZ is to be believed, this case has really brought back some bad memories that I've had to revisit and rethink. And it's added a level of emotional connection I can't shake. Totally OT but I just wanted to say I'm with you on that!

JMO, OMO, and

Thats an aweful thing that happened to you. How were you able to get away?

[Adrienne37]

Can't wait for this program. Great picture of Sybrina, Tracy, and Jahvaris as well.

Trayvon Martin: BET offers special on parents

“I Am Trayvon: A Family’s Fight for Justice” premieres at 7:30 p.m. Friday on the channel. Host Emmett Miller interviewed the parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin.


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...comment-page-1

[gxm]

All this talk of the rain. This morning it was raining as I was taking my grandson to school. I had him pull up the hood on his jacket so his head wouldn't get wet. My jacket didn't have a hood. When we got in the car, I began to sneeze and he scolded me: That because you didn't wear a jacket with a hood, you should have covered your head!

LOL! He's such a little drill sargeant.

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by Inabsentia

But, if you have already claimed to have been beaten and suffered severe injuries, but have been discredited, do you then get to claim that you were oops, uninjured but in mortal fear?
I feel that is what is happening here, the statute may state that you only have to be in fear for your life, but if you choose to go whole hog and claim a terrible beating was administered, then, when that beating doesn't seem to be supported by the evidence available, I am not going to find your claims of mortal fear credible either. Moo

With every new piece of evidence that has cast doubt about Zimmerman's terrible injuries, his family has come forward with a slightly tweaked version of the story to account (as best they can) for it. I don't believe any of it now. Moo

Has GZ himself claimed he suffered these 'life threatening' injuries?

[suzihawk]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

Can't wait for this program. Great picture of Sybrina, Tracy, and Jahvaris as well.

Trayvon Martin: BET offers special on parents

“I Am Trayvon: A Family’s Fight for Justice” premieres at 7:30 p.m. Friday on the channel. Host Emmett Miller interviewed the parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin.


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...comment-page-1

Thanks, Adrienne! DVR is set. Thanks for finding all the other interesting articles as well. Very informative.

[Adrienne37]

Originally Posted by gxm

All this talk of the rain. This morning it was raining as I was taking my grandson to school. I had him pull up the hood on his jacket so his head wouldn't get wet. My jacket didn't have a hood. When we got in the car, I began to sneeze and he scolded me: That because you didn't wear a jacket with a hood, you should have covered your head!

LOL! He's such a little drill sargeant.

Yet Trayvon has been deemed a thug or suspicious because he put his hood up.


~jmo~