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04-20-2012, 05:28 PM
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17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29
Please continue here.
Remember the rules:
Remember the "ignore" feature on your profile page.
Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.
Please clearly state when it is your opinion. If you are making an inference please clearly outline and link the facts and evidence that have led you to form that inference. Wild speculation about any case player has no place here.
Please PM a mod with any questions or concerns and alert any TOS violations or offensive posts.
And finally, PLEASE address one another respectfully. Last reminder.
We are allowing MSM links only at this time...
Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link.
The only approved links at this time are:
Huffington Post
Examiner - Isabelle Zehnder
Richard Hornsby's site
Hinky Meter
Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Thread #4
Thread #6
Thread #7
Thread #8
Just a reminder:
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In this public forum, we need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.
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SOUND OFF Private Forum Companion Thread
Anyone feeling overheated or wishing to discuss the demonstrations, political, religious or racial aspects of the Trayvon Martin case, please check out our new forum in the private area of Websleuths accessible only to Websleuths members, called SOUND OFF.
Warning: Be sure to read the Required Read sticky post.
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04-20-2012, 05:32 PM
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What will GZ's answer be when he is asked how he, TM and his gun ended up where they did -- even though GZ was headed back to his car?
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04-20-2012, 05:35 PM
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Carrying over from previous thread...
Quote:
Originally posted by Cher352;
JMO..but in that picture it looks like he is sitting with his legs crossed on the grass. I think that dark grey area on the right is the knee of pants.
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JMO but it looks like it's his arm bent, holding his phone up to his ear.
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04-20-2012, 05:37 PM
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Carried over from last thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Native
And if it is confirmed by the EMT's what will your position be then?
I am just curious about what it will take to convince people that this was self defense.
I know what it will take to convince me this was murder. It will take the State proving that GZ continued to follow TM and was the aggressor. Then I will firmly believe he should be held responsible. Right now I am going by what I know and when the 911 dispatcher said "we don't need to do that" I heard GZ say "okay". When I see evidence that he wasn't heading back to his truck as he claims, I will change my opinion.
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I'm not going to be sitting on the jury anyway but my personal burden to believe this was a justifiable homicide is much higher than anything released so far.
Unarmed kid. No history of violence. Walking home with candy.
Armed adult. Alleged history of violence. Leaves vehicle in pursuit of unarmed kid. Lack of life threatening or even particularly severe injuries. (Even if he returned to the vehicle though the intent was initially there to follow Trayvon. Why? For what reason other than to confront or detain him?)
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04-20-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGatto
What will GZ's answer be when he is asked how he, TM and his gun ended up where they did -- even though GZ was headed back to his car?
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I guess this is part of the story where "Trayvon jumps George from behind." So I guess Trayvon was hiding in wait as George passed the open area the first time and he made it all the way to the other side to get the address... on the way back... I guess Trayvon just says "What the hay!!" and jumps George from behind! How they got so far down that sidewalk?? I have no idea?? Trayvon had to have dragged him pretty far?
MOO
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Justice for Trayvon
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04-20-2012, 05:42 PM
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I want to know what that email says that George can't remember writing?? I guess it's supposed to be about Tracy?? I bet the FDLE has been keeping a realllll close eye on George and his computer activity! His website alone is damaging and shows a man with no remorse. I am going to fall out if he had the audacity to write negative things about Tracy Martin and then get up in that courtroom and apologize for killing their son!
Hope we get a doc. dump on Monday!
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Justice for Trayvon
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04-20-2012, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaMoon08
I guess this is part of the story where "Trayvon jumps George from behind." So I guess Trayvon was hiding in wait as George passed the open area the first time and he made it all the way to the other side to get the address... on the way back... I guess Trayvon just says "What the hay!!" and jumps George from behind! How they got so far down that sidewalk?? I have no idea?? Trayvon had to have dragged him pretty far?
MOO
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That's why prosecutors are confident and brought a murder charge. It's all fine when people believe GZ, saying he walked back toward his car and was attacked. But when he is cross-examined, it will not stand. I still think a murder conviction is going to be difficult -- but at this point I think a manslaughter conviction is looking like a slam dunk.
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04-20-2012, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoresorrow
JMO but it looks like it's his arm bent, holding his phone up to his ear.
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This is the way I see it also.
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04-20-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaMoon08
I want to know what that email says that George can't remember writing?? I guess it's supposed to be about Tracy?? I bet the FDLE has been keeping a realllll close eye on George and his computer activity! His website alone is damaging and shows a man with no remorse. I am going to fall out if he had the audacity to write negative things about Tracy Martin and then get up in that courtroom and apologize for killing their son!
Hope we get a doc. dump on Monday!
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Yeah, WTH was that all about?? And who did he send the email to? And how did police find it?
ETA: Ok it seems that it was a text message not an email, so police would have gotten it off of his phone.
Last edited by annalia; 04-20-2012 at 06:08 PM.
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04-20-2012, 05:49 PM
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War Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGatto
That's why prosecutors are confident and brought a murder charge. It's all fine when people believe GZ, saying he walked back toward his car and was attacked. But when he is cross-examined, it will not stand. I still think a murder conviction is going to be difficult -- but at this point I think a manslaughter conviction is looking like a slam dunk.
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I think we are jumping a little ahead. It is possible he may be granted immunity before it gets to a Jury trial.
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04-20-2012, 05:49 PM
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'wild rose country...'
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http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749...-29026947.html
-- george takes the stand----- 6:01
IMO--his 'apology' enunciation is so weird---"I wan-ted to say, I am sor-ry...."
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04-20-2012, 05:49 PM
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I think the photo was taken by that witness, John, from his second floor porch or window. I think it was given to O'Mara and O'Mara supplied it to ABCNews. That's what I think.
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04-20-2012, 05:51 PM
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Did the sa have or going to have a,press conference today?
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04-20-2012, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnolia
I think we are jumping a little ahead. It is possible he may be granted immunity before it gets to a Jury trial.
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You mean he will win on "stand your ground" -- pre-trial? Doubt that severely.
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04-20-2012, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i.b.nora
I think the photo was taken by that witness, John, from his second floor porch or window. I think it was given to O'Mara and O'Mara supplied it to ABCNews. That's what I think.
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I think it was relatively close because of how the flash blew out the exposure on the top of his head.
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04-20-2012, 05:52 PM
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What's been bugging me all day is how GZ (what I perceived to be) lied on the stand during his apology today. He said (unless my ears are wonky) that he thought TM was I thought he was a little bit younger than I am or words to that effect. Yet in the 911 call he said something completely different.
Dispatcher
How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman
He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
Late teens is 17 or 18. George Zimmerman is 28.
That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? I'm all for a fair trial, and I have my own thoughts on this, but it shouldn't be based on lies. what exactly is closer to 28? 25? Does TM look like he was 25 years old? My son isn't much younger than TM (15 in July) and wouldn't be able to pass off as 18!
So yah, this testimony frustrated the heck out of me.
MOO
Mel
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04-20-2012, 05:55 PM
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If I entertained any doubts about a murder charge versus manslaughter Zimmerman's non-apology apology erased them.
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04-20-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belle3
Did the sa have or going to have a,press conference today?
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The only thing I heard today was a comment that we haven't seen all of the evidence and we have to wait for the trial.
JMHO
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04-20-2012, 05:58 PM
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Does anyone know if he's made bail yet? Or will that be secretive and he will be whisked away ala Anthony style?
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04-20-2012, 06:00 PM
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'wild rose country...'
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie
What's been bugging me all day is how GZ (what I perceived to be) lied on the stand during his apology today. He said (unless my ears are wonky) that he thought TM was I thought he was a little bit younger than I am or words to that effect. Yet in the 911 call he said something completely different.
Dispatcher
How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman
He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
Late teens is 17 or 18. George Zimmerman is 28.
That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? I'm all for a fair trial, and I have my own thoughts on this, but it shouldn't be based on lies. what exactly is closer to 28? 25? Does TM look like he was 25 years old? My son isn't much younger than TM (15 in July) and wouldn't be able to pass off as 18!
So yah, this testimony frustrated the heck out of me.
MOO
Mel
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--he also says--
911 dispatcher:
OK, what’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman:
It’s a home. It’s 1950 – Aw, crap, I don’t want to give it out loud – I don’t know where this kid is [3:40]
.. late teens, a kid----equals "a little younger than" 28? i doubt it george.
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04-20-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie
What's been bugging me all day is how GZ (what I perceived to be) lied on the stand during his apology today. He said (unless my ears are wonky) that he thought TM was I thought he was a little bit younger than I am or words to that effect. Yet in the 911 call he said something completely different.
Dispatcher
How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman
He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
Late teens is 17 or 18. George Zimmerman is 28.
That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? I'm all for a fair trial, and I have my own thoughts on this, but it shouldn't be based on lies. what exactly is closer to 28? 25? Does TM look like he was 25 years old? My son isn't much younger than TM (15 in July) and wouldn't be able to pass off as 18!
So yah, this testimony frustrated the heck out of me.
MOO
Mel
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This is a huge point. The prosecutor will use it to impeach GZ. And this was in 30 seconds on the stand. It goes along with GZ saying he stopped following TM, but ended up very far from his car with TM, behind the homes. Can you imagine the inconsistencies that have been found during hours of police grilling? The jury will have to ask -- if he lied about this stuff -- can we believe his version of events at all?
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04-20-2012, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie
What's been bugging me all day is how GZ (what I perceived to be) lied on the stand during his apology today. He said (unless my ears are wonky) that he thought TM was I thought he was a little bit younger than I am or words to that effect. Yet in the 911 call he said something completely different.
Dispatcher
How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman
He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
Late teens is 17 or 18. George Zimmerman is 28.
That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? I'm all for a fair trial, and I have my own thoughts on this, but it shouldn't be based on lies. what exactly is closer to 28? 25? Does TM look like he was 25 years old? My son isn't much younger than TM (15 in July) and wouldn't be able to pass off as 18!
So yah, this testimony frustrated the heck out of me.
MOO
Mel
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George finds it so easy to confabulate and embellish..so Its not easy for him to recall all those other statements to copy or to repeat them verbatum ..It's an affliction of people who constantly have to make excuses for what they do, said, did etc...And this is going to come back to bite him in the end..What he says now the truth..or what he said then or then or then..LOL
Its easy to remember the truth..but more mind bending to try and recall just what story you said when or where..LOL
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04-20-2012, 06:02 PM
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Verified Juanette
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGatto
What will GZ's answer be when he is asked how he, TM and his gun ended up where they did -- even though GZ was headed back to his car?
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It may have happened in a couple of ways, besides him following TM at that point. Maybe they both accidentally ran into each other once again when one of them cut through the buildings. Or MAYBE TM turned around and chased him and that is how it all started. { I am not saying I believe either of those, but they might create reasonable doubts]
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04-20-2012, 06:06 PM
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Verified Juanette
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie
What's been bugging me all day is how GZ (what I perceived to be) lied on the stand during his apology today. He said (unless my ears are wonky) that he thought TM was I thought he was a little bit younger than I am or words to that effect. Yet in the 911 call he said something completely different.
Dispatcher
How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman
He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
Late teens is 17 or 18. George Zimmerman is 28.
That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? I'm all for a fair trial, and I have my own thoughts on this, but it shouldn't be based on lies. what exactly is closer to 28? 25? Does TM look like he was 25 years old? My son isn't much younger than TM (15 in July) and wouldn't be able to pass off as 18!
So yah, this testimony frustrated the heck out of me.
MOO
Mel
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He may have said on the 911 call that he thought TM was a kid. But later on when they were fighting, he may have decided he was older than that.
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“Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn
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04-20-2012, 06:10 PM
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Verified Juanette
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brought over from earlier thread, posted by LolaMoon
+++++=============================================
My mom must not believe in unconditional love because she has told me and my sisters since I can remember:
"If you get arrested... DON'T call me! DON'T write me! DON'T expect money! DON'T expect me in that courtroom!" She told my older sister, the one who my mom's two granddaughters: "If you ever harm a hair on their heads... I will disown you! You will be dead to me!" during the Caylee Anthony case. She would never stand by us if we killed someone and I know she wouldn't. One time my sister was being really nasty to my mom and my sister said she was going to call HRS (DCF back then) and my mom handed her the phone and said: "When you're finished... make sure you call 911 because you'll need it."
My mom was not abusive in any way and loves us more than the world -- but she is not one of those parents that would support us no matter what and I love her for that. None of us have ever been in any kind of trouble!
================================================== ==
I respect that tough love position, and share it for the most part. However, people do get arrested unfairly, even while innocent.
My sons best friend was charged with date rape when they were in college. And he was INNOCENT. He was eventually proven to be innocent and all of the charges wwere dropped because she recanted.
But what if his parents had cut him off without bothering to hear him out? Innocent until proven guilty should be in the case of our kids too, imo.
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