CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

[Cubby]

Well, perpetrators of crime always hate the truth. I suppose that's one reason so much effort has gone into muddying the truth regarding Mr. Harrod's disappearance. Muddying things like the timeline, handy man - special odd jobs, continued efforts to make persons already cleared appear as if they weren't cleared.

The truth is a beautiful thing. I can't wait for it to make a full appearance in Mr. Harrod's case. In the mean time, I'm looking forward to seeing the doc's as soon as they can be sorted through. The truth slowly reveals itself in Mr. Harrod's case.

[Opie]

Bumping this thread back to page 1.

[shana]

Is there something we need to do, to get even some of the docs up for all to view?

So doing would help me when I visit the Courthouse, to bring whatever is missing or needed.

TIA!

~jmo~

[suzyq211]

Back to page one. Praying for justice for Mr Harrod.

[Opie]

Halfway down page 2 is no place for this thread. Bumping back to page 1.

[shana]

Originally Posted by Opie

Halfway down page 2 is no place for this thread. Bumping back to page 1.

Sadly, in terms of news, this thread -- like so many others -- would be many pages down on the list.

Hopefully, some new information such as the docs will provide discussion material with the goal of finding Robert Harrod and what happened to him.

As always, I am wondering where Bob is...missing nearly 3 years ago now. :-(

~jmo~

[believe09]

Originally Posted by JamaicanMeCrzy

Long time lurker and I believe it would be most appropriate to post this letter entered as exhibit #19 from the hearing of October 31st 2011. I would like to call your attention to what I see as a glaring venom filled letter. RB called Bobs attorney on a Friday nite because she was so concerned about the bypass trust. How many of us could or would call an attorney in the evening to rant and rave about a trust?

Then in January she was putting together a demand letter with both of her sisters. Bob got wind of it and immediately went after JM son-n-law. Why??? Just a guess, but maybe Bob thought JM was pushing the daughters to get their dues. In any case there appears to be no love loss between the two of them.

Next once the daughters got the information letter from Bob’s attorney. It becomes apparent to RB that the bypass trust is a tax shelter for Bob. This is why she wanted clarification of the wording “if he needs” and “standards set forth in the trust instrument”

It appears that she is approaching panic mode. Note the words and phrases. “the rights of beneficiaries”…”incompetent or suspected improper handling of our mothers bypass trust”…”as beneficiary, I am entitled to”… “speculation”…”suspicion very stressful for me to endure”…”speculation and suspicion”…”legal rights of beneficiaries”…” family strife suffering”

This letter was written and sent just ten days before Bob vanished from his home. There is no doubt in my mind that this letter set the tone of the meeting Sunday the 26th of July 2009 the day before JM came over to take care of some needs at Bobs home.

HBilly Jack

Happy Fathers Day Mr. Harrod.

3 years ago today, 10 days prior to Bob's disappearance, this letter was generated to Bob's atty. A demand from his child, one who he paid to stay away, for an accounting of "their" share of Bob's money. The money that was his when he survived Georgia.

I wonder-if Georgia had survived Bob, would there have been an equivelent letter and situation? Or was Georgia one who gave and gave to her daughters?

[tlcya]

Originally Posted by believe09

3 years ago today, 10 days prior to Bob's disappearance, this letter was generated to Bob's atty. A demand from his child, one who he paid to stay away, for an accounting of "their" share of Bob's money. The money that was his when he survived Georgia.

I wonder-if Georgia had survived Bob, would there have been an equivelent letter and situation? Or was Georgia one who gave and gave to her daughters?

Someone certainly fed the greed monster well in these "loving" daughters It may well have been Georgia.

[Cubby]

I've always wondered if the author of the demand letter feels some sense of guilt or remorse for leading the family into all the suspicions she mentions in the above attached letter. I wonder, if those suspicions and concerns pushed JeM to act like a hit man instead of a handy man. What exactly were his odd jobs the day of Bob's disappearance and why is the family so insistent on keeping them under lock and key?


Maybe Bob's daughters didn't exactly kill their father but their greed and demands on his money certainly led to whatever caused his disappearance.

Maybe the SIL had to hide some illegal activity being done by his son, Bob's grandson, with Mr. Harrod's money.

It's all very suspicious and I pray the truth and justice come for Mr. Harrod soon.

All JMO as usual.

[cocomod]

Believe, that letter actually makes me cry. Can you imagine a daughter writing such things???
Did she honestly think that she was more entitled to the money than he was?
Did SHE earn the money that was accumulated?? - NO -
Did Bob contribute to the household money throughout his lifetime; supporting his wife and children?? - YES -


Bob needs / deserves justice!!! Darn-it-all! Where is Bob?! What happened on that fateful day?!!

[StacyMarie83]

I don't want this to sound crass, but are there any FAMILY members that care bob is gone that would care about pushing this to untie all these knots?

Such a sad case of greed! I hope there is justice soon!

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by StacyMarie83

I don't want this to sound crass, but are there any FAMILY members that care bob is gone that would care about pushing this to untie all these knots?

Such a sad case of greed! I hope there is justice soon!

Welcome to WS and welcome to Bob's thread StacyMarie83. We've been asking those same questions about his blood family and their spouses/offspring for almost 3 years now.

Thank you for your interest in this special man's case.

[shana]

I found the information at following link helpful when dealing with several trusts over the years:

Trust Beneficiaries’ Bill of Rights

I've passed it on to many ppl, so I thought I'd add it here for discussion purposes and general understanding. The Rights are stated in simple terms and are easy to digest.

~jmo~

[suzyq211]

Originally Posted by shana

I found the information at following link helpful when dealing with several trusts over the years:

Trust Beneficiaries’ Bill of Rights

I've passed it on to many ppl, so I thought I'd add it here for discussion purposes and general understanding. The Rights are stated in simple terms and are easy to digest.

~jmo~

Shana, thank you for posting that link. I am uneducated when it comes to Trusts and so forth, but I have to admit reading that left a bad taste in my mouth. It seems like a Trust is looked upon as an entitlement, rather than a gift. I can actually SUE the Trustee, if I feel my RIGHTS are being violated? That was probably next on the agenda...

[shana]

Originally Posted by suzyq211

Shana, thank you for posting that link. I am uneducated when it comes to Trusts and so forth, but I have to admit reading that left a bad taste in my mouth. It seems like a Trust is looked upon as an entitlement, rather than a gift. I can actually SUE the Trustee, if I feel my RIGHTS are being violated? That was probably next on the agenda...

Hi suzyq! You're welcome. :-)

We have a lawyer on this thread (who happens to be one of my favorite posters on WS). I'm hoping she'll drop-in when available to answer your questions.

For now, you might want to read-up on the definition of Trusts, or more specifically the Inter Vivos (Living) Trust. I am not certain because I have not seen the original trust docs, but I believe the Harrod (Family) Trust may well have been this type.

In a familiar instance, the following scenario might apply:

As part of an Estate Plan, a husband & wife (Trustors) would create a Living Trust naming themselves as Co-Trustees so long as both are alive. After the death of one, the surviving spouse becomes Sole Trustee. After the death of the surviving spouse, a Successor Trustee is appointed (named in the original docs and could be an individual or a corporate entity for example).

The terms of the Trust specify how the Trustors want their Estate distributed including named Beneficiaries. Benes might be children, grandchildren, or even a charitable foundation established by the family, and so forth.

The role of the Trustee is essentially to carry-out the terms of the Trust as the Trustors declared. The Trustee's actions are accountable and defined in Probate Law, simply and generally stated in the Bill of Rights link I posted.

As you might imagine, there are instances in which the Trustee deviates from the wishes of the Trustor(s) as expressed in the original agreement. If the Trustee does not perform according to the terms of the Trust, the Beneficiaries have legal recourse. From the link I posted, one point for example:

All trustees have a legal duty to keep you reasonably informed about what the trust provides, and what they are doing to administer the trust. You have the right to sue them if they don’t. If the Trustee refuses to give you the terms of the trust after you have made written demand, the court has the power to remove the Trustee and/or hold them personally liable for your damages.

I know gitana1 can answer your concerns far better, but for now I just wanted to try an explanation of sorts from my personal POV.

~jmo~

[believe09]

I will wait for gitana to weigh in, but I think I remember this discussion from early on. Bob was the beneficiary of the Bypass, with his children being the beneficiaries once he passed away. There were specific bequests from Georgia regarding jewelry. The only cash bequest was 10K to AH upon the death of his grandfather. Which, candidly, I thought was extremely interesting given the size of Bob's estate. 10K to his only grandson. That's it. And some jewelry to the girls. No money to them upon the death of their mother.

We did a lot of research about how stringent the guidelines were regarding his ability to spend the money from the ByPass as he pleased, and IIRC there was quite a bit of latitude.

Personally, I find the letter more telling regarding the money as a motivator for his children. Again, I have visions of three women believing there was a windfall coming their way when their mother died. Instead he paid them to stay away from him.

[shana]

I believe Mr. Harrod would be the Trustee, not the Beneficiary, of the Bypass Trust aka A/B Trust.

A netsearch on bypass trusts california yields a number of hits, many of which make for good reading.

I do not know the particulars of the civil matters relative to this case as some of you do, because I do not have access to the docs apart from the few copies uploaded here.

Also I question the money allegedly paid to the daughters so they would stay away from him. It interests me further because $15k exceeds the annual gift tax allowance. Could you please provide some more info on this? TIA

~jmo~

[believe09]

does that preclude him from accessing the money in the bypass shana? If not, well then perhaps that is what permits the successor trustees from doing the same although their father has not been declared dead?

[believe09]

Additionally, If Bob is the trustee of the ByPass and the terms of the trust allow for distribution of principal and income for the comfort and maitenance of the surviving settlor (Bob, right) I am not sure how he isnt essentially entitled to spend the ByPass pretty much as he pleases. What are your thoughts shana?

[believe09]

Originally Posted by shana

I believe Mr. Harrod would be the Trustee, not the Beneficiary, of the Bypass Trust aka A/B Trust.

A netsearch on bypass trusts california yields a number of hits, many of which make for good reading.


~jmo~

Yes, we went through this in depth. I will try and find the links for you and you can see what you think.

[believe09]

Who controls a Living Trust-

Q. What are the rights of the surviving spouse as trustee?
Answer: The surviving spouse retains full rights to all of the trust assets and continues to have the ability to amend or revoke the trust. The only exception is if an AB trust (i.e. Credit Shelter Bypass Trust) has been created for tax savings at the first death. This AB trust is normally only created for those couples with estates of over the Federal Exemption Equivalent Amount which is currently $3,500,000 (2009). Further information about the AB trust is found below.

An AB or ByPass Trust-

With an AB trust, instead of leaving their property to each other, both spouses leave their property to an irrevocable trust. The survivor receives any income from trust property and under some circumstances has access to the principal. Typically, the couple's children inherit the property after the second spouse dies. Because the surviving spouse never technically owns the assets in the trust, those assets wouldn't become part of the surviving spouse's estate and aren't subject to tax at the second spouse's death.

I suspect Bob's trust allows him access to the principal. So if I remember correctly, a ByPass is a tax dodge for wealthy couples.

[shana]

Hi believe09 and everyone else following,

I cannot answer questions or even render my personal opinions w/o viewing the original trust docs from the Court. Trusts are private, custom-designed, and so it would be inappropriate (for me) to venture a guess without having access to the terms of this one in particular.

Hopefully gitana will weigh-in with her comments. She has obtained the original docs from O.C., correct?

~jmo~

[believe09]

Got it shana.

For those of you impatient to see what we collectively have or who have a particular document you want to see, even if you are not local you can obtain documents via FOIA. You can contact OC Superior Court house with the case numbers and they will instruct you as to the process.

[Allusonz]

Originally Posted by shana

I believe Mr. Harrod would be the Trustee, not the Beneficiary, of the Bypass Trust aka A/B Trust.

A netsearch on bypass trusts california yields a number of hits, many of which make for good reading.

I do not know the particulars of the civil matters relative to this case as some of you do, because I do not have access to the docs apart from the few copies uploaded here.

Also I question the money allegedly paid to the daughters so they would stay away from him. It interests me further because $15k exceeds the annual gift tax allowance. Could you please provide some more info on this? TIA

~jmo~

BBM

I as well question this aspect. Alas, without seeing the actualy Trust document not much further can be said.

[believe09]

The payment wasnt part of the trust. I suspect that the payment served two purposes-the stated one and perhaps an excess in the trust that needed to be distributed so it wouldnt be taxed.

What if you saw the information in a deposition of the women who received the money?