CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

[Angelo]

Originally Posted by GrainneDhu

I am being absolutely serious: I hope that Bob never had a chance to realise the threat to his life. I hope that he put his heirs firmly in their places at that meeting, then spent the evening talking to Fontelle and never had an inkling of fear as to what one or more of his heirs decided to put into motion.

In other words, I hope that Bob literally never saw it coming. That his last moments were filled only with thoughts of Fontelle and what he wanted to get prepared for her return.

I really, really hope that.

I fear, however, that it was not so. Somehow, I can't see Bob as a man who went down without a fight.

The sort of fight that would require repairs to the house to conceal.

BBM~~

Hence JeM's "small projects".

From the Disappeared clip, it looks as if whatever happened to Mr. Harrod happened in the bathroom as he was getting ready for his day.

[gitana1]

Just to let you guys know, I am working very hard to get caught up with this case so I can help everyone make sense of the legal documents and proceedings. Thank you Believe09 for all your help!!!!

We are also working on getting you the most important documents from the two court cases.

[Cubby]

I do think the repairs done in Mr. Harrods home were to conceal whatever occured. Why else would they remain a secret almost 3 years later?

I also agree, based on the discovery id disappeared clip, whatever occured likely occured in the bathroom while Mr. Harrod was getting ready for his day. I'm really looking forward to seeing whatever additional info LE is going to release when the show airs.

In the past, when I have seen the show, LE usually offers additional info not previously released to the public. Just a few more months.

[gitana1]

Hey guys, I'm on thread 3 now! Anyhow, I looked and never found anything but a private FB for Mr. Harrod. How the heck that helps find him is beyond me, but then again, I am pretty sure that's the point - it is not intended that his actual body be found.

So, my question is, why can't we make a page for Mr. Harrod? Along with links to his lovely romance, newspaper articles about the case, etc.?

Websleuths is awesome but social media might be helpful and clearly, the family do not care enough to do such a thing. So, why don't we?

[Cubby]

The original FB page for Mr. Harrod (eta the one which is now private) was started by an advocate for the missing and later turned over to Bob's daughters. They (Bob's daughters) used the FB page to sleuth those who joined and outed their personal information when they connected them to WS.

I'd be very careful using FB for Mr. Harrod's case. Bob's daughters are not and have never used it to find their dad. They've used it to post nasty things about his current wife. 50 year old photo's that would do nothing to help find their dad, and to sleuth and harrass those seeking answers.

That's just my take on it.

[gitana1]

Originally Posted by Cubby

The original FB page for Mr. Harrod (eta the one which is now private) was started by an advocate for the missing and later turned over to Bob's daughters. They (Bob's daughters) used the FB page to sleuth those who joined and outed their personal information when they connected them to WS.

I'd be very careful using FB for Mr. Harrod's case. Bob's daughters are not and have never used it to find their dad. They've used it to post nasty things about his current wife. 50 year old photo's that would do nothing to help find their dad, and to sleuth and harrass those seeking answers.

That's just my take on it.

So they would simply derail it? But couldn't the person who creates the site simply monitor and block them if they try to do that?

[Cubby]

They could. It's a lot of work. I'm really not FB savy. I leave the FB stuff to those who are better at it than I. I just know there don't seem to be many ways to moderate FB. Though, I think a page could be set up to allow only the owner to make comments and turn off replies. That might be an idea, if someone wants to set up a page.

[gitana1]

Oh gosh guys, I'm sitting here just so sad, so choked up about this case. A poster posted a video of another 80 year old couple who found each other, Jack and Betty. (Thread 3). It was so sweet, so special. And it made me really think about what was taken from Mr. Harrod and his lovely wife.

Fontelle has remained steadfast all these years later. Almost three years that she has been waiting for him. Almost three years that they could have had together. It sickens me. It is so wrong, so unfair that this was done to them.

It also makes me think about my own, dear parents. Cancer took away their chance to be together as an elderly couple. And it's horrible. But that kind of thing is the only thing that should take away such a chance. Not murder!

How can the person(s) who did this to Bob and Fontelle sleep at night? Eat? Live each day through? I try to understand how it would feel to be such a person. It's too hard to contemplate. What is life like for such a monster? It cannot be good.

God bless you Mr. Harrod!!!!!!! There are so many who love you and are fighting for you! I hope that somehow, that lessens the pain of knowing that others who should, are not.

[gitana1]

Originally Posted by Cubby

They could. It's a lot of work. I'm really not FB savy. I leave the FB stuff to those who are better at it than I. I just know there don't seem to be many ways to moderate FB. Though, I think a page could be set up to allow only the owner to make comments and turn off replies. That might be an idea, if someone wants to set up a page.

Well, if I set up a page, let's say, and someone posted nasty replies, I could just delete the comments and then block the poster. I have seen it happen on other FB missing persons pages.

We could even do one as a group, meaning several of us would have the passwords and ability to moderate, delete replies, etc. What do you think? I'd also like to see a youtube video done for Mr. Harrod but I don't know how. Those things can get hits quickly.

I don't know that either mechanism could help to physically locate Mr. Harrod but, increased publicity could cause pressure to create movement, or possibly even cause someone to remember something they never thought was important. IDK.

[gitana1]

Wow guys, I'm looking back at a thread from 2010 which includes your pitches to Dateline/Disappeared.

What they have on their website about Mr. Harrod's story is so similar to pitches from Believe, Montjoy, etc., from two years ago. You guys really worked incredibly hard and it paid off! You are true warriors for justice!!!!!!!

[gitana1]

Another thing (sorry to be posting so much back to back), you guys did such a remarkable job, back in the day (Cubby, Cloudajo, Believe09, etc.) of summing up and tracking all the discrepancies in the timeline that were put forth by the daughters, the smear campaign the daughters made against their father on various websites, the changes to off putting comments and other strange things on social media cites controlled by the daughters that were, like clockwork, made directly after every criticism posted on websleuths, even after websleuthers stated, "Now that I have pointed out how odd that status comment is, watch how quickly it changes..", and finally, how every red herring that was meant to derail the investigation, came right from the daughters, no one else.

Fantastic stuff. Really remarkable.

I wonder what Mr. Harrod's family feels about the Disappeared episode coming up. Does anyone have a link to the trailer for it? TIA!!!

[Cubby]

Thank you, gitana1. We are actually blessed to have you here as a verified attorney to help us get a better understanding of some of the legal stuff. I'm simply grateful you and other posters have taken an interest in Mr. Harrod's case. It's no doubt interesting, and no doubt eye opening to see his daughters efforts in full. Your description of their efforts is spot on.

The trailer for the future disappeared show featuring Bob's case was only up for a short while. It was added in error, we believe due to being added too early since his show is not scheduled to air until sometime next fall.

A transcript does exist. Let me find it and link it.

[Cubby]

Cloudajo originally posted the following transcription. I apparently added a wrong link way back..... I found a copy of it and will paste it here.

Disappeared Season 5 - Sign of Trouble (Bob Harrod)

Clip (3:23) – Posted 4/26/12

(transcribed below)

Narrator: But Jeff was not the only person at Bob’s house that day. Agnes, Bob’s housekeeper of more than 10 years, arrived around Noon. Normally, she cleans Bob’s house on Tuesday, but this week she’d arranged to come on Monday.

Agnes: And he said that will be fine, I will be here, and Jeff is coming and he’s gonna to take care of a couple of things in the house before Fontelle comes. So I went to the house, knocked on the door, nobody answered, I looked in the mailbox because that’s where he normally leaves me the key, the key wasn’t there, so I sat on the bench in front of the house.

Narrator: The situation made her very uneasy. Nothing like this had ever happened before.

Agnes: Bob always was home when I went over there, or if, him and Georgia, they would always always tell me if they would not be home, and they put a key in the mailbox. But it was a very rare occasion that they were not home.

Narrator: After about 15 minutes, Jeff drove up to the house.

Agnes: I told him right away that, you know, that where Bob is, because he’s not answering the door. And Jeff was just asking me, “Are you supposed to be here today?” I said, “Yeah, Bob knew that I’m coming today.”

Narrator: Agnes was surprised to hear that Bob didn’t tell Jeff that she would be coming that day. As Jeff let her in the house, she began to feel that something was very wrong.

Agnes: I was really concerned at that point, I was afraid to go upstairs, I didn’t want to find anything. So I asked Jeff if he would go upstairs and see if Bob was there.

Narrator: Agnes waited at the bottom of the stairs while Jeff went up to have a look around.

Agnes: I thought he’s just going to look into the room, it takes a minute to go up, look into the room, and just see if Bob was there or not. But he actually ended up spending a couple of minutes there, so I thought maybe, you know, he find something, he find him there or something. So I yelled up, I said, “Is he there, is he ok?” And he said, ‘No, he’s not here.” And then he came back.

Narrator: Uncertain about what to do next, Agnes began cleaning, while Jeff resumed his repairs. As she worked her way around the house, she noticed something disturbing.

Agnes: When I went upstairs, I saw that in his bedroom, the bed was unmade, and never in the 10 years I worked for them, that happened before. It was just so out of character for him to not to make the bed, I just thought it was very strange.

Narrator: Deeply troubled, Agnes finished up and left, shortly after Jeff, who had also completed his work.

Agnes: I was there all together about 3 hours. I can honestly tell you that during the whole time I was there, I was very concerned. I kept thinking, where is he at?

Video Clip: http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/disappeared-sign-of-trouble.html

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

[gitana1]

Originally Posted by Cubby

Thank you, gitana1. We are actually blessed to have you here as a verified attorney to help us get a better understanding of some of the legal stuff. I'm simply grateful you and other posters have taken an interest in Mr. Harrod's case. It's no doubt interesting, and no doubt eye opening to see his daughters efforts in full. Your description of their efforts is spot on.

The trailer for the future disappeared show featuring Bob's case was only up for a short while. It was added in error, we believe due to being added too early since his show is not scheduled to air until sometime next fall.

A transcript does exist. Let me find it and link it.

Thank you for the transcript.

I'm trying to get caught up fast so that when I look at the docs again, I know better what is important and what you all really need to see. Also, I want to be very clued in when it comes to the trust hearing in July, which I will be at. It should be interesting.

I am now on thread 4, page 7. Great info and very disturbing so far.

This case really grabs a hold of ya'. I think some posters' interest in this case is motivated by their relationships with their fathers. I know mine is.

I saw mention by some posters that their own bad relationships with their fathers caused them to sympathize with the daughters to some degree and with what they posted on the web.

You know, I'm sure many of us here who adore our fathers could tell a story or two or three. But if you love your parent, you don't air dirty laundry, or criticize them publicly, especially when they are dead (or missing).

It is at such times that people who love their parents forgive and forget the bad things and think only of the good.

I also think you can't have it both ways. Either you think your missing parent was a jerk and you don't have much sympathy for him or concern about the case or his life, or you love and care for him and want him found.

These people alternately simper to the camera, "Oh, I'm so scared for my dad!" - all wide-eyed innocence (blech) - and then viciously slam him publicly as a snake, a liar, a cheat, a child abuser, a selfish man, etc.

I have never seen the like. And I think someone who thought ill of their parent and was justified in feeling that way would express things differently. Such as, "Well, my dad is a very difficult person. It was difficult growing up with him. In reality, I think he could have made some enemies in life. " That's as opposed to the shrill shrieking about what a monster their father was, which is not evidence that they are justified in feeling that way, but instead is evidence that they are desperate to justify the reasons behind his disappearance.

In reality, I see some grown adults who likely were spoiled and protected, probably to a very large degree, by their mother, as they grew up, and when mom died and they were faced with dad alone, they realized he could no longer be talked into giving them homes and money, etc., and the fisties started to be waived violently.

Men will do a lot at the behest of their wives, depending. They may do things differently when she's not there to influence things. That, if true here, may have caused deep, intense rage. Three little girls who may have been given whatever mommy could give them, would likely grow to be three adults who are materialistic, superficial, demanding and feel entitled.

Such would explain the conduct that has been displayed since Mr. Harrod was taken from his home and from the chance of late-in-life happiness with his new wife.

Poor Mr. Harrod

(The above is all: - based on what I have read here so far and not on personal knowledge of any kind).

[Allusonz]

Originally Posted by GrainneDhu

Upthread Gitana provided links to reports that indicate that the courts that are supposed to supervise conservatorships are basically rubberstamp mechanisms for financial vultures. It was a big story in the media, including The Los Angeles Times.

In my state, the courts are really strict with conservators. Conservators have to walk a straight and narrow path; if they don't, there are huge penalties involved.

It makes me wonder if someone follows the news and decided to roll the dice.

Thanks GrainneDhu

I do have a legal background and from being the conservator of some rather large trusts the laws are indeed strict.

I found sometimes it was the judges interpretation that could at times be interesting .

The reason I have been especially cautious with this case is due to the fact there is a previous trust involved. Having been in this position, even though the SO was the beneficiary, there was a life estate interest which involved the children. Although the liquid assets were for the sole benefit of the SO, there were restrictions with respect to land/property. To make a long story short it was interesting to say the least

[believe09]

Gitana, I think you nailed it. From day one these women didnt get it. Had they shown a little kindness to Fontelle and had they shown some basic street smarts and self control, this would never have gone anywhere. The only person who would have had a feeling of something being wrong would have been CL. Sure, there might have been twinges by Fontelle. When the whole sale money grab started, when the bizarre claims and phone calls started. When LE was eventually coerced into taking a closer look at the entire situation and started interviewing and giving LDTs....well everything fell apart rapidly.

They couldnt control themselves. Bob was gone, Andrew stopped paying his mortgage immediately, they tried to throw Fontelle out, they went to court to get control of his assets. Within days. DAYS.

Ridiculous. Thank GOD CL changed her day. That is one of the only things, imo, that caused a crack big enough to get some hope of some kind of justice eventually here.

They were incredibly stupid. Fortunate that Bob hasnt been found, I suspect, but incredibly stupid in how they thought they could pin this on an innocent family and then attempt to make their father too detestable to care about.

Right down to his choice of frozen dinners.

[GrainneDhu]

Originally Posted by gitana1

Thank you for the transcript.

I'm trying to get caught up fast so that when I look at the docs again, I know better what is important and what you all really need to see. Also, I want to be very clued in when it comes to the trust hearing in July, which I will be at. It should be interesting.

I am now on thread 4, page 7. Great info and very disturbing so far.

This case really grabs a hold of ya'. I think some posters' interest in this case is motivated by their relationships with their fathers. I know mine is.

I saw mention by some posters that their own bad relationships with their fathers caused them to sympathize with the daughters to some degree and with what they posted on the web.

You know, I'm sure many of us here who adore our fathers could tell a story or two or three. But if you love your parent, you don't air dirty laundry, or criticize them publicly, especially when they are dead (or missing).

It is at such times that people who love their parents forgive and forget the bad things and think only of the good.

I also think you can't have it both ways. Either you think your missing parent was a jerk and you don't have much sympathy for him or concern about the case or his life, or you love and care for him and want him found.

These people alternately simper to the camera, "Oh, I'm so scared for my dad!" - all wide-eyed innocence (blech) - and then viciously slam him publicly as a snake, a liar, a cheat, a child abuser, a selfish man, etc.

I have never seen the like. And I think someone who thought ill of their parent and was justified in feeling that way would express things differently. Such as, "Well, my dad is a very difficult person. It was difficult growing up with him. In reality, I think he could have made some enemies in life. " That's as opposed to the shrill shrieking about what a monster their father was, which is not evidence that they are justified in feeling that way, but instead is evidence that they are desperate to justify the reasons behind his disappearance.

In reality, I see some grown adults who likely were spoiled and protected, probably to a very large degree, by their mother, as they grew up, and when mom died and they were faced with dad alone, they realized he could no longer be talked into giving them homes and money, etc., and the fisties started to be waived violently.

Men will do a lot at the behest of their wives, depending. They may do things differently when she's not there to influence things. That, if true here, may have caused deep, intense rage. Three little girls who may have been given whatever mommy could give them, would likely grow to be three adults who are materialistic, superficial, demanding and feel entitled.

Such would explain the conduct that has been displayed since Mr. Harrod was taken from his home and from the chance of late-in-life happiness with his new wife.

Poor Mr. Harrod

(The above is all: - based on what I have read here so far and not on personal knowledge of any kind).

Gitana, I know you know your stuff. But please be careful with these women. I just have this feeling that they are dangerous.

Then again, gypsy girls are notoriously dangerous themselves. <G>

I suppose we'll never know but I do wonder if Georgia was in on the plot to split Bob away from Fontelle when he arrived at Camp Pendleton.

I think you've nailed the daughters accurately. I'm one of those who is attracted to this case because of my own father. My dad was born one week after Bob and I treasure every day I have with him.

My mother died just over a year ago and nothing would make me happier than if my father found a new love to give him a reason to want to get up in the morning. He has grandchildren that he loves immensely but it's just not the same.

I can barely wrap my mind around the mindset of the Harrod descendants.

[GrainneDhu]

Originally Posted by believe09

Gitana, I think you nailed it. From day one these women didnt get it. Had they shown a little kindness to Fontelle and had they shown some basic street smarts and self control, this would never have gone anywhere. The only person who would have had a feeling of something being wrong would have been CL. Sure, there might have been twinges by Fontelle. When the whole sale money grab started, when the bizarre claims and phone calls started. When LE was eventually coerced into taking a closer look at the entire situation and started interviewing and giving LDTs....well everything fell apart rapidly.

They couldnt control themselves. Bob was gone, Andrew stopped paying his mortgage immediately, they tried to throw Fontelle out, they went to court to get control of his assets. Within days. DAYS.

Ridiculous. Thank GOD CL changed her day. That is one of the only things, imo, that caused a crack big enough to get some hope of some kind of justice eventually here.

They were incredibly stupid. Fortunate that Bob hasnt been found, I suspect, but incredibly stupid in how they thought they could pin this on an innocent family and then attempt to make their father too detestable to care about.

Right down to his choice of frozen dinners.

That crack just gets to me every time I remember it.

At Bob and my father's age, calories are the most important thing. The finest food in the world does no good if they won't eat it. Even younger people find it difficult to get motivated to cook from scratch just for themselves, let alone someone who is older and may never have done so on a regular basis.

If Bob discovered frozen meals that he could fix on his own and he enjoyed GOOD FOR HIM. The most important thing was for him to eat regularly and take in enough calories to maintain himself.

If they didn't like his taste in frozen meals, then do what I've been doing: fix food from scratch and freeze into single serving portions. Each month, I make a months' worth of food for my dad, all stuff he enjoys the he can just take out of the freezer, pop into the microwave and eat.

I've had some big hits. Every month, I get a request for more five cheese lasagne. <G>

A lot of what I make for my dad is desserts. His sense of taste is fading (normal with ageing) and desserts tend to be calorie dense, so even if he doesn't feel like eating a lot, he can usually enjoy something sweet.

This is not a chore for me. It's fun, figuring out what freezes well and will be the next big hit. It's showing my daddy how much I love and cherish him.

If Bob's daughters loved him, why weren't they doing similar for him? All they did was snipe at him while they had him to love. Now he's gone and all that continues is the sniping.

[believe09]

GrainneDhu, this is why you are not facing the same pressure that these women are.

If they didn't like his taste in frozen meals, then do what I've been doing: fix food from scratch and freeze into single serving portions. Each month, I make a months' worth of food for my dad, all stuff he enjoys the he can just take out of the freezer, pop into the microwave and eat.

They didnt do this. Neither did Andrew who lived less than a quarter mile away. A few neighbors, who have since been villified by Bob's daughters (where have we heard that before) took the time and trouble to care for him and cook for him after Georgia died. In between those times, Bob found prepackaged meals to supplement with.

[cocomod]

As I have stated before, one thing that draws me to Bob's case is my own experience in the death of my father. Although he died in a hospital, the vultures were there at the hospital, had him sent to the crematorium, went to his house to start sorting, and then called to tell me that he had passed. They did not even try to call me until 12 hours AFTER he passed even though they were told 2 days before he passed that he would not make it though this infection.

I have been reading Bob's thread over several days (in between work assignments ), and I am amazed again at the love that the people on this thread have for Bob. I am impressed by those that help and continue to care for Bob. I honestly hope for justice one day.

With regards to the dwendling accounts, I can say that unfortunately, it does not surprise me much. I found out the hard way that someone in charge of the trust can pay themselves very handsomely and there is not much that can be done about it. I was told that my half-sister could pay herself $100 / hour and there is not much that I can say about it. I was the one that asked for an accounting, and my half-sister made ME out to look like the greedy one. My brother didn't know what to think, but he was happy that I hired an attorney to get an accounting. Only when we saw how much she was paying herself and my half-brother in salaries did the shock set in. The only thing that my dad's estate required was writing about 3 checks a month (for utilitlies). She was paid as much as a full-time job for this "job". I can tell you that I didn't ask for the accounting out of greed. I asked for it out of "what is right". I knew that something wasn't right, and I wanted her to be held accountable for doing what my dad's wishes were. It didn't make a difference. I ended up paying for all of my attorney fees, and she ended up paying an attorney $100,000 to "defend" her actions out of the remaining trust. I didn't have the money to continue to fight her, and I was told basically that I couldn't win anyway.

My heart absolutely bleeds for Fontelle. I honestly believe that as others have stated, Georgia likely spoiled the girls and they were used to getting their way easily. I canNOT imagine them asking Bob for an accounting after Georgia died. I would NEVER in a million years think that any part of the estate belonged to me if one parent was still living. To me it shows that their greed was there before Bob disappeard, and likely was the very reason that he did disappear.

I continue to lurk and wait for justice for Bob. In this particular case, I wish that there were more that I could do. I wish that Fontelle know how many here care about Bob and want justice for him!! I sincerely hope that LE is continuing to work on his case.

Thank you for the documents to give us a better understanding of the players involved!!

[believe09]

Thank you very much for sharing your stories. ((hugs))

We have a lot of activity regarding documents and case files-I have received a ton of PM's from people looking to pull some themselves.

Let's break out the case numbers so it will be easier...add or correct my list please!!

Georgia's Will- 30-2008-00068771-PR-OP-LJC

Harrod Trust/Fontelle Objector/Andrew Harrod interested party 30-2009-00291267-PR-CE-LJC

Conservatorship 30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJC

[Mels3kidz]

Originally Posted by believe09

Ridiculous. Thank GOD CL changed her day. That is one of the only things, imo, that caused a crack big enough to get some hope of some kind of justice eventually here.

Did CL change her days or did Bob ask her to come a day earlier? I've read it both ways. TIA

Melissa

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by believe09

Thank you very much for sharing your stories. ((hugs))

We have a lot of activity regarding documents and case files-I have received a ton of PM's from people looking to pull some themselves.

Let's break out the case numbers so it will be easier...add or correct my list please!!

Georgia's Will- 30-2008-00068771-PR-OP-LJC

Harrod Trust/Fontelle Objector/Andrew Harrod interested party 30-2009-00291267-PR-CE-LJC

Conservatorship 30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJC

You've got the trust and conservatorship case numbers reversed.
The Conservatorship case number is 30-2009-00291267-pr-ce-ljc
and the Harrod Trust case number is 30-2009-00297798-pr-tr-ljc

The case number for Georgia's Will is correct.

hth

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by Mels3kidz

Did CL change her days or did Bob ask her to come a day earlier? I've read it both ways. TIA

Melissa

According to the Disappeared clip, it appears she made arrangements with Bob to come early, that Monday and Bob told her that was fine, he'd be there. Many of us suspect that 10:00 am phone call was from the housekeeper making arrangements to come that Monday instead of the following day, her usual day.

Narrator: But Jeff was not the only person at Bob’s house that day. Agnes, Bob’s housekeeper of more than 10 years, arrived around Noon. Normally, she cleans Bob’s house on Tuesday, but this week she’d arranged to come on Monday.

Agnes: And he said that will be fine, I will be here,


For full clip transcript see previous post #788 upthread.

[believe09]

Originally Posted by Cubby

You've got the trust and conservatorship case numbers reversed.
The Conservatorship case number is 30-2009-00291267-pr-ce-ljc
and the Harrod Trust case number is 30-2009-00297798-pr-tr-ljc

The case number for Georgia's Will is correct.

hth

OOPS

You would think after all of this time.....