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04-21-2012, 06:06 AM
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Trial Thread 4/26/2012
Trial Discussion Thread:
reposting a few of the warnings:
Salem's warning from last week:
Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.
Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.
We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.
Thank you,
Salem
---------------------------------
As some of you may have noticed, the members following this case are dropping in numbers. It's disheartening to us because we need and welcome discussion of both sides of every issue on Websleuths.
Zero tolerance means ZERO tolerance. Please discuss this case with respect to your fellow members. Subtle and veiled harassment and/or talking in code about other members will not be tolerated.
A word of caution on the Alerts in this forum. If you alert a post, make sure it is a clear violation of our Terms of Service. A difference of opinion is not a violation of TOS.
Please note that everything discussed in court and printed/tweeted is now within the realm of discussion. WS has never and does not now have a policy of "innocent until proven guilty." That is for the court room. Here, we discuss, speculate, theorize and judge according to the opinions we develop from following the case.
Keeping that in mind, abuse of our alert system is a good way to find yourself in timeout or worse. Abuse of the alert systems includes, but is not limited to:
Alerting repeatedly on the same poster;
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Once you have alerted a post, move on and don't question the decisions of our Administrators, Moderators or Owners.
Following this trial is very important to our members and we're going to see that they have their day in court. The "zero tolerance" policy in this forum will continue and it will be enforced.
Thank you and please carry on.
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Please keep discussion focused on what has been presented in testimony and remember to link up as the partial publication ban is still in place
Last edited by nursebeeme; 04-26-2012 at 01:31 PM.
Reason: edit of title
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04-23-2012, 12:50 PM
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Trial Thread 4/26/2012
Short week this week and we are 1/2 way through already.
Salem
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"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." George S. Patton, Jr.
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04-26-2012, 05:17 AM
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*Bump*
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04-26-2012, 06:13 AM
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Good Morning!
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― Mahatma Gandhi
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04-26-2012, 06:15 AM
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Christie Blatchford: Nothing can top horror of McClintic, Rafferty jail visit after Stafford death
Quote:
LONDON, Ont. – For just a minute, there in the visitors lounge at the Genest Detention Centre on the evening of May 12, 2009, it looked as though Terri-Lynne McClintic and Michael Rafferty were slow dancing.
Their arms were wrapped around one another; their feet shuffled just a bit.
Thirty-four days before, though there has been quibbling over the details ever since, the two had presided at the burial of the little girl named Victoria (Tori) Stafford.
So there they were, now dancing or almost dancing, on that child’s grave.
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http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...tafford-death/
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
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04-26-2012, 06:17 AM
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__________________
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
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04-26-2012, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
They act like young lovers everywhere, hugging, holding hands, teasing each other, laughing.
He shows off his biceps and caresses her hair. She knocks away a magazine he uses like a telescope to peer at her.
It is all so romantic, so normal.
Except that a month earlier, the young lovers were - at the very least - present when a charming little eight-year-old girl was beaten to death with a hammer, stuffed in garbage bags, and discarded under a pile of rocks.
Except that their acts of young love were caught on surveillance camera at the Genest youth detention centre in London, and the young woman, Terri-Lynne McClintic, would confess a few days later to abducting the girl, Victoria (Tori) Stafford, April 8, 2009.
The lawyer for the man, Michael Rafferty, has suggested that abduction was McClintic's idea and his client was a horrified bystander who didn't see the killing, but agreed to help clean up.
Yet through a timeline of phone calls and showing of Genest surveillance video, the Crown painted a picture Wednesday of Rafferty keen on keeping in touch with McClintic and showing no signs of being horrified with her behaviour.
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http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19680036.html
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
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04-26-2012, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~n/t~
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The second video, after he lifts her a couple times, she tries and could not lift him. He is physically stronger than her. If I am to believe that he did not know Tori was abducted until later, then he absolutely could have done something about it when he found out. He was strong enough that he could have restrained her and helped Tori. In fact, he could have knocked TLM unconscious if necessary (and to save a child, I would have applauded him for that, JMO).
He did nothing.
Not believing it.
JMO.
Not believing the 'innocent dupe' theory at all.
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04-26-2012, 07:14 AM
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Just me!
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i believe my check is $57 a month for my daughter based on my family's income. i have a hard time believing that she would have gotten almost 6k from the government monthly, that's insane.
from the videos in the detention centre i saw them cracking each others backs, and i felt the affection was one sided and placentae but expected from TLM considering where she is
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My opinion is MINE!
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04-26-2012, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorgQueen
The second video, after he lifts her a couple times, she tries and could not lift him. He is physically stronger than her. If I am to believe that he did not know Tori was abducted until later, then he absolutely could have done something about it when he found out. He was strong enough that he could have restrained her and helped Tori. In fact, he could have knocked TLM unconscious if necessary (and to save a child, I would have applauded him for that, JMO).
He did nothing.
Not believing it.
JMO.
Not believing the 'innocent dupe' theory at all.
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Hope the jury is thinking the same way. I think it's ironic that his defenders speculated that he may have been afraid of the hammer weilding madwoman and in this video he's flexing his biceps and clearly showing how much stronger he is than the convicted child killer. Strong enough to pick up those 100 lb boulders to throw on Tori's little body. 
__________________
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
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04-26-2012, 07:30 AM
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Does anyone wonder if Derstine is going to provide a different scenario when defence gets their turn? Maybe Derstine just said a small chunk of what (happened) to TLM. As i doubt he wanted to say all of the scenario to her for the jury to see her reaction and not believe the whole scenario that he comes out with in closing argument. Just wondering because the story that MR just walked away isn't working for me. JMO
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04-26-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~n/t~
Hope the jury is thinking the same way. I think it's ironic that his defenders speculated that he may have been afraid of the hammer weilding madwoman and in this video he's flexing his biceps and clearly showing how much stronger he is than the convicted child killer. Strong enough to pick up those 100 lb boulders to throw on Tori's little body. |
Indeed. This is NOT a man that was afraid of her. He may not have been interested the way she was (which is obvious between these videos, and that 'date' video), but he was absolutely NOT afraid of her.
In the first one, he appears to be poking at her. She bats his arms away, seemingly annoyed. Didn't she assault her mother because her mother poked at her? Why would somebody who is so afraid of the woman do something annoying that would provoke her? Her fist could have went flying across the table at any time.
Not afraid at all. Not an innocent dupe. Could have saved Tori at ANY TIME after finding out the reason she was in his car, definitely strong enough. Not believing that story at all.
JMO.
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04-26-2012, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzzy
i believe my check is $57 a month for my daughter based on my family's income. i have a hard time believing that she would have gotten almost 6k from the government monthly, that's insane.
from the videos in the detention centre i saw them cracking each others backs, and i felt the affection was one sided and placentae but expected from TLM considering where she is
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I don't think I've ever seen a cheque from the government for any child benefit.... But "if" they are handing out 6000 a month no wonder you see questionable mothers with 4 or 5 kids, it becomes an easy way to earn a guaranteed monthly pay cheque, tax free as well! I'm self employed and 6000 wouldn't cut it for me a month in my current situation but if I packed in my business and only had mortgage and bills I'd have a good little amount left over every month!
I'm all for helping those down on their luck or in hard times, but the system here in Canada sometimes makes things too easy.
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04-26-2012, 07:39 AM
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Craziladi and Jezebel, sorry yesterday I did totally have a brain fart. I was using my CTB to calculate and I get $700 for both kids (I get so much as I am a student a the moment). So you can get about $350/per child depending on your income. Sorry everyone for the misinformation 
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04-26-2012, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison
Craziladi and Jezebel, sorry yesterday I did totally have a brain fart. I was using my CTB to calculate and I get $700 for both kids (I get so much as I am a student a the moment). So you can get about $350/per child depending on your income. Sorry everyone for the misinformation |
That is much better
I get about $376 for my child for CTB. The UCCB is $100, but that ends this year due to my child's age.
ETA: I get less than $500 from OW, monthly.
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04-26-2012, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkzerz
Does anyone wonder if Derstine is going to provide a different scenario when defence gets their turn? Maybe Derstine just said a small chunk of what (happened) to TLM. As i doubt he wanted to say all of the scenario to her for the jury to see her reaction and not believe the whole scenario that he comes out with in closing argument. Just wondering because the story that MR just walked away isn't working for me. JMO
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I think the defence thought they could break TLM and get her to lose it on the stand. They wanted to show the jury the out of contol beast who was capable of instilling fear in even grown men. By all accounts she seemed to hold her own. If they change the story now, I think the jury will be even less inclined to believe them. Who knows? I have seen stranger things happen. JMO
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04-26-2012, 08:31 AM
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Good-morning. Thank-you to those standing watch in the pursuit of Justice for Tori.
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04-26-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorgQueen
Indeed. This is NOT a man that was afraid of her. He may not have been interested the way she was (which is obvious between these videos, and that 'date' video), but he was absolutely NOT afraid of her.
In the first one, he appears to be poking at her. She bats his arms away, seemingly annoyed. Didn't she assault her mother because her mother poked at her? Why would somebody who is so afraid of the woman do something annoying that would provoke her? Her fist could have went flying across the table at any time.
Not afraid at all. Not an innocent dupe. Could have saved Tori at ANY TIME after finding out the reason she was in his car, definitely strong enough. Not believing that story at all.
JMO.
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AGREED but that being said. If he did indeed rape that little girl (god bless her heart) why is TLM still so smitten with him. Personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him and she had her out by being in detention she didn't need to see him. She could have said she isn't allowed visitors. IMO
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04-26-2012, 08:38 AM
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Is the defense starting today?
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
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04-26-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confusedashell
AGREED but that being said. If he did indeed rape that little girl (god bless her heart) why is TLM still so smitten with him. Personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him and she had her out by being in detention she didn't need to see him. She could have said she isn't allowed visitors. IMO
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I know you didn't address me in your post but I believe it is because they are two peas in a pod.
Both psychopaths, imo
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
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04-26-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison
Craziladi and Jezebel, sorry yesterday I did totally have a brain fart. I was using my CTB to calculate and I get $700 for both kids (I get so much as I am a student a the moment). So you can get about $350/per child depending on your income. Sorry everyone for the misinformation |
No worries and thanks, I thought maybe I was missing out on something lol
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04-26-2012, 08:47 AM
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Anyone that could be as calm as those two were after the murder are complete psychopaths. This is how sick people behave.
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04-26-2012, 08:50 AM
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I think I read yesterday the crown had one more witness and will do a recap of surveillance and close...... Do you think the witness will be an officer doing the surveillance recap or maybe the crown is saving the best witness for last?
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04-26-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jezbel
I think I read yesterday the crown had one more witness and will do a recap of surveillance and close...... Do you think the witness will be an officer doing the surveillance recap or maybe the crown is saving the best witness for last?
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Good question. I'm just wondering if the defense will start immediately or will they request a long weekend break before they start. Derstine already got a sick day so he should get no other free days. LOL
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― Mahatma Gandhi
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04-26-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~n/t~
Hope the jury is thinking the same way. I think it's ironic that his defenders speculated that he may have been afraid of the hammer weilding madwoman and in this video he's flexing his biceps and clearly showing how much stronger he is than the convicted child killer. Strong enough to pick up those 100 lb boulders to throw on Tori's little body. |
I don't think anyone is defending him, some are waiting to hear all evidence from both sides before deciding his guilt on the charges for which he is on trial for.
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Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.
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May you rest in peace.....Tori Stafford
