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Old 04-23-2012, 11:30 PM
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NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 - #2


(Photo: Patz Imaging)

6-year-old Etan Patz was last seen walking to his school bus stop in New York City, New York the morning of May 25, 1979. This was the first time his parents allowed him to walk to the bus stop alone. Etan has never been heard from again. He wasn't noticed as missing until he didn't make it home from school that day.

A known pedophile, Jose Antonio Ramos, has been the suspect in Etan's case for years. He dated the woman who walked Etan to school during a bus strike. He admitted to taking Etan to his apartment the day he disappeared, but said he let him go when Etan resisted him. Ramos was found liable for Etan's death in 2004.

Recently, focus has shifted to a new possible suspect, handyman Othniel Miller. Miller reportedly gave Etan $1 for doing handy work the day before he disappeared, and poured fresh concrete in his workshop soon after. The basement was dug up in 2012 in search of clues.


PREVIOUS THREADS:

Thread #1



And just so *everyone* is clear....

Etan's parents are considered victims. They are most definitely NOT suspects.
END. OF. STORY.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:34 PM
epiphany epiphany is online now
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Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
One of the creepiest things I've ever read:

One former resident recalls an encounter with Ramos from his childhood: Playing with his sister in their bedroom, the boy saw a row of toy soldiers and an old Barbie magically appear outside the window, suspended by invisible wire. Opening the window, he reached toward a toy. The line was yanked up a few inches. Leaning out, he spotted Ramos up on the fire escape, gesturing for him to climb the rusty metal stairs. Instead, he slammed the window shut and told his sister not to say a word about what had happened.

http://nymag.com/nymag/features/56441/
Ha! You're pulling my leg, WFG. Certainly, there must be creepier things we've both read about on this board!
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
Ha! You're pulling my leg, WFG. Certainly, there must be creepier things we've both read about on this board!
Just the image it creates - the bearded madman hovering above, pulling toys on invisible string, beckoning.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
Ha! You're pulling my leg, WFG. Certainly, there must be creepier things we've both read about on this board!

I believe this article means that around the time Etan was abducted, Ramos was using toys to entice children to come to him/his home. Ramos was an adult, not the age of the boy and girl mentioned in the article.

Absolutely a very creepy picture in my mind - a pedophile luring children with toys.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
Just the image it creates - the bearded madman hovering above, pulling toys on invisible string, beckoning.
For all I know it's fiction, like the imagery the NYT etched in my psyche re the leak by anonymous sources of OM's supposed response when he was shown a book of images of children.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:24 AM
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Here's that Wall Street Journal piece again, a good short overview of the case past and present, in case someone just checks in here and missed the last couple pages of #1:

On Prince Street, the End of a Deep Dig Into Cold Case

Recommended.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
For all I know it's fiction, like the imagery the NYT etched in my psyche re the leak by anonymous sources of OM's supposed response when he was shown a book of images of children.
It has a certain cinematic quality that might be soundtracked by Pink Floyd, any time from 'Dark Side of the Moon' back to the band's genesis in '65.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheWhoMustNotBeNamed View Post

(Photo: Patz Imaging)

6-year-old Etan Patz was last seen walking to his school bus stop in New York City, New York the morning of May 25, 1979. This was the first time his parents allowed him to walk to the bus stop alone. Etan has never been heard from again. He wasn't noticed as missing until he didn't make it home from school that day.

A known pedophile, Jose Antonio Ramos, has been the suspect in Etan's case for years. He dated the woman who walked Etan to school during a bus strike. He admitted to taking Etan to his apartment the day he disappeared, but said he let him go when Etan resisted him. Ramos was found liable for Etan's death in 2004.

Recently, focus has shifted to a new possible suspect, handyman Othniel Miller. Miller reportedly gave Etan $1 for doing handy work the day before he disappeared, and poured fresh concrete in his workshop soon after. The basement was dug up in 2012 in search of clues.


PREVIOUS THREADS:

Thread #1



And just so *everyone* is clear....

Etan's parents are considered victims. They are most definitely NOT suspects.
END. OF. STORY.
<modsnip>

Justice must be blind and without emotion. This case is far from solved. In my opinion. If the family members can not be considered then there is no point websleuthing this case.

Last edited by Salem; 04-24-2012 at 02:31 AM. Reason: FEEL FREE TO MOVE ON TO ANOTHER CASE THEN, THE FAMILY ARE CONSIDERED VICTIMS HERE
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:37 AM
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How about the image of that dollar bill Etan had visible as he left the apartment? Perhaps, it beckoned Etan to trust an adult who ultimately betrayed him. Grooming? Nothing points to Etan as having ever met Ramos.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:48 AM
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Looks like the tabloids have dropped this one; don't see any blaring headlines so far.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Holmes View Post
<modsnip>
Justice must be blind and without emotion. This case is far from solved. In my opinion. If the family members can not be considered then there is no point websleuthing this case.
Rarely is anyone ever "entirely exonerated". However, in keeping with Websleuths Terms of Service...a family is ALWAYS considered VICTIMS. Unless they are specifically named suspects or persons of interest, or there are extreme circumstances obviously leading that way, we never sleuth the family.

However, that does not mean that you can't discuss them as they relate to the facts of the case.


Quote:
Victim Friendly

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior,good or bad is fine, but do so in a civl and constructive way and ONLY IF IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CASE. Additionally,sleuthing family members that are not suspected of being involved in the crime or disappearance is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement. However that does not mean that family members cannot come into discussion as the facts and issues of the case are discussed.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65798
If there are any further questions from anyone about this, please PM a moderator directly.
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STILL DOING IT FOR DYLAN GROENE. REST IN PEACE:
http://www.amw.com/missing_children/brief.cfm?id=32037

HELP FIND MISSING 7-YEAR-OLD PATRICK ALFORD: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107247

Last edited by SheWhoMustNotBeNamed; 04-24-2012 at 02:41 AM.
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2012, 01:37 AM
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---
Julie Patz, Etan’s mom, occasionally looked out of her window down the street as the probe wrapped up, but had no comment.

Family friend Lisa Cohen, who wrote the book “After Etan” about the case in 2009, said the Patzes, sadly, were not surprised by the apparent dead end.

“[It’s] a shame, [but] they’ve been through it so many times before . . . There’s a list — pages, and pages — of these types of leads,” said Cohen, who spoke to the family yesterday
---
more here: Etan dig comes up empty (NY Post)
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:56 AM
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This is an interesting Post take on things, by a guy who grew up in NYC just prior to the Etan Patz disappearance:

Oh, for the days when kids could walk streets of city alone
Quote:
---
By 8, (....) I was going to school by myself (or with my three-years-older sister) on two city buses. By 9, my friends and I were taking the No. 1 train north to a skating rink on 238th Street in Riverdale.
---
It was all little different from what New York City kids had always done. My father, who grew up in a Brooklyn slum in the 1930s, had lived much the same way. This was what it meant to be a New Yorker.
---
I was born in 1961. In 1964, there were 3,200 felonies in the 24th Precinct, where I lived. By 1969, the number had risen 20 percent. By 1979, when Etan disappeared, the number was up another 20 percent.
---
The general reaction to this explosion of urban barbarism was a kind of shell-shocked acceptance. Everything had gone to hell, no one knew how to stop it, and so all one could do was live with it.

Then came Etan Patz, disappearing only steps from his own door on the way to school.
---
more at the NY Post link above
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
Ha! You're pulling my leg, WFG. Certainly, there must be creepier things we've both read about on this board!
Seriously, that IS pretty creepy!!
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Holmes View Post
<modsnip>

Justice must be blind and without emotion. This case is far from solved. In my opinion. If the family members can not be considered then there is no point websleuthing this case.
That may be true for LE. We are not LE. LE has already said the parents are not involved. However there are other suspects who have been named that are worth looking into. Not his parents though.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:59 AM
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I have mixed emotions about Etan not being found there. While at least the parents would have known what happened, I can't imagine knowing that my child was under a basement in a building that I had probably walked past hundreds of times.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:15 AM
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That may be true for LE. We are not LE. LE has already said the parents are not involved. However there are other suspects who have been named that are worth looking into. Not his parents though.
Show me a link to information where LE states the parents are not involved and are not considered suspects. I would like to read that. The new investigator has made it clear they are looking outside the previous scope.

Cleary this is a difficult crime to solve. If you keep looking at it the "same way" you will get the same results.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:22 AM
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This case is 33 years old, and the parents were cleared decades ago. You're not necessarily going to find an online article saying that after this passage of time. Unless there is some new evidence or knowledge that points to the parents, they are victims and not suspects.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:40 AM
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Snipped

The niece of the new suspect in the Etan Patz disappearance has corroborated claims that he raped her when she was a child, law enforcement sources say.

Snipped

The FBI searched in vain for the niece but early this week found her, and she corroborated the ex-wife’s allegation, the sources said.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...#ixzz1sy8VVysA
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:47 AM
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SheWho explained it it all last night. WS is taking the stand that we are not going to sleuth the parents as they are victims.

Please don't bring it up again.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:47 AM
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ramos is getting out this november. now is a better time than ever for etan to be found!
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
Snipped

The niece of the new suspect in the Etan Patz disappearance has corroborated claims that he raped her when she was a child, law enforcement sources say.

Snipped

The FBI searched in vain for the niece but early this week found her, and she corroborated the ex-wife’s allegation, the sources said.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...#ixzz1sy8VVysA
Good find. Mr. Othneil Miller's status as a person of interest just solidified if the niece is telling the truth.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:56 AM
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Show me a link to information where LE states the parents are not involved and are not considered suspects. I would like to read that. The new investigator has made it clear they are looking outside the previous scope.

Cleary this is a difficult crime to solve. If you keep looking at it the "same way" you will get the same results.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...suspects&hl=en
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:59 AM
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From the link: "[Detective Bill Butler] says the Patzes are not suspects." (AP article, 07 April 1980.)
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:05 AM
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Ok, that article answers one question... Why his sister didn't notice Etan wasn't at school. They went to different schools.

It also clearly and unambiguously states that the Patz' are NOT suspects. Not that most of us needed to read that.

Last edited by necco; 04-24-2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason: remove sister's name
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