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George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads All closed discussion threads about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin.Not open for posting- but there is plenty of reading.


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  #376  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:49 AM
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I'm more concerned over the fact that someone is saying GZ was told by LE to get a gun to shoot a dog that was in his yard when GZ was living in a community of row homes where children reside, play in the street and walk down the sidewalks. If this is true that a police officer would give that advice instead of telling him to formally complain to the HOA to have the dog removed is unbelievable. jmo
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  #377  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
I do not think AC would jeopardize her career to do anything that isn't by the book. The investigator made it quite clear in his testimony at the bond trial that statements made by GZ were not consistent with the evidence. We know the homocide detective at SPD felt GZ was lying because his statements were inconsistent. MOM is the one who called Inspector Gilbreath to the stand and the inspector laid it right on the line why GZ was charged. I know I did not have any problems understanding that there is a problem with GZ's statements regarding what happened. jmo
I think AC has already put her career out there by charging a 12 year old as an adult.
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  #378  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by annalia View Post
BBM

I agree, but in this case even the legal experts can't seem to agree.

And most of these TH's are former prosecutors, LE, FBI, defense attorneys. I'm guessing that's one of the reasons they can't agree, lol, maybe they are all a bit biased based on how they see these cases, either from a prosecution or defense standpoint.

JMHO
Those TH's do not have the evidence the SP has to decide this case. I believe the SP team had the autopsy report at their disposal besides talking to the last person TM spoke with on the phone, SPD never did...they made a decision to not charge, even as the homicide detective asked for a manslaughter charge. They dismissed it before they truly looked at all the evidence, or dismissed it without looking for futher evidence..I believe SPD dropped the ball, especially with not testing GZ for alcohol, which could have fueled his aggressive attitude towards a lone teen talking on his phone..I blame GZ for the position he's in today...it's all his own fault, he should have allowed LE to handle this, but his determination of not letting another get away, got in his own way of freedom...
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  #379  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Just K View Post
Reports say that his insurance business failed by 2005. That is a very short amount of time to be in business (11/10/2004) to 2005, WOW!
--he then apparently got into the mortgage business, and made big $$$'s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...brinatavernise


After graduating from high school in 2001, Mr. Zimmerman moved to Florida, into a home that his parents had just bought for their retirement in Lake Mary, near Sanford. He began working as an insurance agent with an uncle, but he became a mortgage broker when the real estate market started booming. According to his father, he was making at least $10,000 a month by his early 20s.
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  #380  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrienne37 View Post
Actually Just K, there are 2,269,252 signatures on the petition at Change.org right now. However, I refuse to believe that Angela Corey would risk her career to appease anyone. I feel 100% sure that there is evidence that points to Zimmerman doing exactly what he is charged with.


http://www.change.org/petitions/pros...trayvon-martin


~jmo~
Many people would of said the same thing (about not wanting to risk a career) about Mike Nifong before Duke Lacrosse turned out how it did.
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  #381  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Why would someone threaten them for taking a picture? I do not think anyone has threatened witnesses in this case. The picture is what it is. If someone were really afraid they never would have released the picture to the media in the first place. There could only be just so many people that could have taken that picture and since LE claimed GZ was in custoday at 7:17 when Ofc. Smith arrived a picture taken at 7:19 showing GZ on a cell phone might be a concern for the police department. A person hiding their identity leads people to believe this picture is not what it appears to be. Why else would someone disassociate themselves from it? Sets that old hinky meter into overdrive. jmo
I'm missing something. Which photo shows him on a cell phone? Can you repost? TIA
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  #382  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
But unless they can prove 2nd degree murder I wouldn't think statements (true or false) would convict/aquit.

There has to be evidence right? They can charge him with telling lies to LE (like ICA) but not 2nd degree murder without evidence to back it up.

Just My Opinion
You know I really thought she would charge him with manslaughter. Why did she go for 2nd degree? They must have something. Could it be the ME's report of the trajectory of the bullet? Could it show that TM was trying to get up and away from GZ? Could it also show that there were no prints on GZ's gun belonging to TM? They certainly have something because Mr. Gilbreath was choosing his words very carefully so as not to give O'Mara too much. jmo
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  #383  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by lauriej View Post
--he then apparently got into the mortgage business, and made big $$$'s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...brinatavernise


After graduating from high school in 2001, Mr. Zimmerman moved to Florida, into a home that his parents had just bought for their retirement in Lake Mary, near Sanford. He began working as an insurance agent with an uncle, but he became a mortgage broker when the real estate market started booming. According to his father, he was making at least $10,000 a month by his early 20s.
Seems like the Zimmerman family and their "other" sources are having an especially hard time keeping their stories straight.


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  #384  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
I think AC has already put her career out there by charging a 12 year old as an adult.
I think that is one of the most saddest cases I've read about.

What I find interesting though is that when it came to Alan Dershowitz, he is given accolades for not basing anything on emotion, only the law.

However, AC seems to have said the same thing, however unpopular, she can't base that case on emotion, she has to go by the law.

I wish that he was not being charged as an adult, I wish that he was able to get much needed help for having to live the horrors he's had to live with in such a short lifespan, I've seen others disagree and say that he should be, but I don't know that it shows that AC is unethical or anything of that nature.

JMHO
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  #385  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by atthelake View Post
I'm missing something. Which photo shows him on a cell phone? Can you repost? TIA
It's the picture of the back of GZ's head showing the blood. The claim is it was taken via a camera on someone's cell phone. That was my understanding. Plus a cell phone sounds about right because who carries a camera around with them. jmo
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  #386  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
I'm more concerned over the fact that someone is saying GZ was told by LE to get a gun to shoot a dog that was in his yard when GZ was living in a community of row homes where children reside, play in the street and walk down the sidewalks. If this is true that a police officer would give that advice instead of telling him to formally complain to the HOA to have the dog removed is unbelievable. jmo
Hadn't he already complained?
If a dog has your cornered and is aggressive, a call to the HOA is not really gonna do much. A bullet would. IMO

Pits kill a lot of people every year. IMO you have the right to protect yourself and your family from them.
If the dog's owner did not want a dead dog, perhaps they should keep it locked up.

I love animals, but would not think twice before shooting an aggressive pit if I felt I was in danger, or my family was in danger.

JMO
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  #387  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
Sure looks like Reuters bought a bunch of pictures. Copyrighted them too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-shooting.html
FACT: I work in marketing communications and sometimes support clients for *crisis management*.

This article to me looks perhaps that the family *sold* a stack of photos, and consideration I have is that it was perhaps MOM brokering that in return for a positive article, that hey got copyright privileges. Otherwise, IMHO MOO Reuters couldn't put a circle c on them.

The DT is behind this article IMHO, and is doing so in an attempt for *crisis management* and to get positive public relations out in the media. Reuters is one of the MOST followed for other MSM media to pick up on IMHO and experience. I think MOM is a very good defense lawyers MOO.
  #388  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
You know I really thought she would charge him with manslaughter. Why did she go for 2nd degree? They must have something. Could it be the ME's report of the trajectory of the bullet? Could it show that TM was trying to get up and away from GZ? Could it also show that there were no prints on GZ's gun belonging to TM? They certainly have something because Mr. Gilbreath was choosing his words very carefully so as not to give O'Mara too much. jmo
All of the above and that horrific scream of help, who I do believe was TM. After the boom of the gun, the scream stopped simulatnously...then the allegation of GZ lunging on the back of TM after he feel dead, could also fuel the depravity of his actions...and being told to not follow, another reason...also due to TM relaying to his GF his fear of this strange dude following him, she told him to run, he said he wouldn't run just walk really fast, proves he was trying to get out of GZ's sights..

I also believe TM didn't have any wounds to his hands to suggest he hit GZ...
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  #389  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:02 AM
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Those pictures were pretty generic though.

IMO they could have came from anybody. Maybe the family? Maybe a friend? Maybe someone who knew GZ back then but does not even talk to him anymore? Maybe the brother who had an estranged relationship with GZ?

Who knows. IMO the possibilities are endless.
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  #390  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
$$$ would be a good start. If it turns out it really was someone who knew GZ, perhaps it's a one of these situations where they are angry at some of the things that are being said and wanted to get it out. I'm not sure, but even that doesn't mean the photo isn't authentic. We see leaked photos show up all the time in cases and I'm pretty sure a majority of those are not coming from LE.
I'm not even questioning if the photo is authentic. When I went to school just after the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock, I was taught the following:

WHO as in who took the photo
WHAT is the reason the person took the photo to begin with?
WHEN as in when was it taken and why was the person there.
WHERE Was this photo taken in the middle of an established crime scene or was the crime scene sloppy and not controlled

In addition, who might have asked that the picture be taken, who assisted and who might have had control of that picture at any time? Chain of evidence?

IMO to float this picture and then not "put up or shut up" is sensationalism. Someone has motivation to do that or they would just hand it over to LE.

Anonymity? Hard to claim that if Frank Taafee knows as he has claimed. If Frank knows, at some point everyone is going to know. When he gets to spinning his yarns, it will come out.

If I was foolish enough to do such a thing as whomever took this photo, I certainly wouldn't hide behind anonymity and ABC has stooped to the lowest of lows in recent years by allowing this type of sensationalism. I ask? So you have a picture? Tell me about it, and no one can. That is an insult to my intelligence that I should buy into that over and over from that news agency.
  #391  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by lauriej View Post
--he then apparently got into the mortgage business, and made big $$$'s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...brinatavernise


After graduating from high school in 2001, Mr. Zimmerman moved to Florida, into a home that his parents had just bought for their retirement in Lake Mary, near Sanford. He began working as an insurance agent with an uncle, but he became a mortgage broker when the real estate market started booming. According to his father, he was making at least $10,000 a month by his early 20s.



Quote:
Then came 2005, and a series of troubles. Zimmerman's business failed, he was arrested, and he broke off an engagement with a woman who filed a restraining order against him.

That July, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer after shoving an undercover alcohol-control agent who was arresting an under-age friend of Zimmerman's at a bar. He avoided conviction by agreeing to participate in a pre-trial diversion program that included anger-management classes.

In August, Zimmerman's fiancee at the time, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman reciprocated with his own order on the same grounds, and both orders were granted. The relationship ended.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83O18H20120425

What happened in 2005 for GZ to have this huge personality change? That would be important to know...is it when he started using alcohol? Is he now going rogue due to that?

Something changed in GZ, not for the better..what happened?

I hope there is a psychological done on him...there's something wrong with GZ for him to go from this do gooder to one who has a propensity for violence...
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  #392  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
I think it has been well established that GZ's friends and family have recieved death threats.

I would not come forward shouting to the world that I provided the photo that proved GZ had injuries to the back of his head that night.

NO WAY
Well established by whom - other than the family and friends? As I recall, Shellie Zimmerman said she received one hatefull email/letter that she didn't bother to turn over to the authorities. I'm not even sure it was a death threat, but I may be mistaken.

They have every reason to be scared but it doesn't mean that there have been any actual death threats.

IMO
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  #393  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by annalia View Post
I think that is one of the most saddest cases I've read about.

What I find interesting though is that when it came to Alan Dershowitz, he is given accolades for not basing anything on emotion, only the law.

However, AC seems to have said the same thing, however unpopular, she can't base that case on emotion, she has to go by the law.

I wish that he was not being charged as an adult, I wish that he was able to get much needed help for having to live the horrors he's had to live with in such a short lifespan, I've seen others disagree and say that he should be, but I don't know that it shows that AC is unethical or anything of that nature.

JMHO
You have to read everything about his child...he was made into a sociopath and if he was charged as a child, he'd be back in society wreaking havoc. This could not be changed in just 7 years...this poor child was used and abused and he started to use and abuse..he needs to be where he's at until his mindset can be changed...Don't think you can change a sociopath but he was nurtured into one, he wasn't born that way...while it is a sad case, it's even more sad what his victims went through...there is no winners there..except society...
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  #394  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by grandmaj View Post
I'm not even questioning if the photo is authentic. When I went to school just after the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock, I was taught the following:

WHO as in who took the photo
WHAT is the reason the person took the photo to begin with?
WHEN as in when was it taken and why was the person there.
WHERE Was this photo taken in the middle of an established crime scene or was the crime scene sloppy and not controlled

In addition, who might have asked that the picture be taken, who assisted and who might have had control of that picture at any time? Chain of evidence?

IMO to float this picture and then not "put up or shut up" is sensationalism. Someone has motivation to do that or they would just hand it over to LE.

Anonymity? Hard to claim that if Frank Taafee knows as he has claimed. If Frank knows, at some point everyone is going to know. When he gets to spinning his yarns, it will come out.

If I was foolish enough to do such a thing as whomever took this photo, I certainly wouldn't hide behind anonymity and ABC has stooped to the lowest of lows in recent years by allowing this type of sensationalism. I ask? So you have a picture? Tell me about it, and no one can. That is an insult to my intelligence that I should buy into that over and over from that news agency.
I'll add the 5th W

Why? Why did someone take this picture? Idle curiosity? GZ asked someone to take it? A police officer?

None of those are acceptable answers regarding a crime scene. I agree that the provenance of the photo is paramount! This whole things stinks.
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  #395  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
Those pictures were pretty generic though.

IMO they could have came from anybody. Maybe the family? Maybe a friend? Maybe someone who knew GZ back then but does not even talk to him anymore? Maybe the brother who had an estranged relationship with GZ?

Who knows. IMO the possibilities are endless.
Correct, which is why the chain of custody is important...another reason it might not be introduced to evidence...it has to have a chain of custody attached to it to be accepted into evidence...for now, it's only a photo someone took..don't know if it was enhanced, photoshopped..so it's not evidence for a court of law...unless LE took it and took possession of the photo...
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  #396  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
Well established by whom - other than the family and friends? As I recall, Shellie Zimmerman said she received one hatefull email/letter that she didn't bother to turn over to the authorities. I'm not even sure it was a death threat, but I may be mistaken.

They have every reason to be scared but it doesn't mean that there have been any actual death threats.

IMO
According to the family.

Also remember:
Rossane Barr tweeted Robert and Gladys' CORRECT home address.

They say they have recieved thousands of threats. I find them to be credible.

Everyone who is connected to GZ should not automatically be considered liars IMO.
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  #397  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:19 AM
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After I posted this ^^^ (on prev thread) I decided to look up the exact requirements for an Associate in Arts degree from Seminole State. It is ‘possible’ that he’s one credit short, these are examples of 3 & 1 credit classes available:

3-credit class: CCJ 1010 - Introduction to Criminology

http://www.seminolestate.edu/catalog...course/CCJ1010

1-credit class: CCJ 2941 - Cooperative Education Internship In Criminal Justice

http://www.seminolestate.edu/catalog...course/CCJ2941


BUT I’m still highly skeptical that he’s only 1 credit from an AA, one reason being that George would’ve had to attend college full-time from 2009-2011 to have completed 59 credits (see below) by the end of 2011… and during this time wasn’t he working off & on and according to wife, collecting unemployment? (can one collect unemployment while going to school for general AA degree?). I personally don’t think George has the wherewithal to complete college, based on his long-term uneven employment history, problems with violence and irresponsibility. And I do think he should release his official college transcripts if he is so close to graduating, I think it would cast a good light on him. All JMO of course.


REQUIREMENTS: AA degree from Seminole State College:

Total Credits to graduate: 60
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Communication: 9 credits total

-English I 3-credit class
-English II 3-credit class
-Oral Communication 3-credit class


Humanities: 6 credits total

-Area A 3-credit class
-Area B 3-credit class


Social Science: 6 credits total, choose from..

-Anthropology 3-credit class
-Economics 3-credit class
-Geography 3-credit class
-Political Science 3-credit class
-Sociology 3-credit class


History: 3 credits total (one 3-credit class)

Science: 6 credits total, choose from..

-Biological Science 3-credit class
-Earth Science 3-credit class
-Physical Science 3-credit class


Mathematics: 6 credits (two 3-credit classes)

Electives & Required Prerequisites for Major: 24 credits (eight 3-credit classes)

http://www.seminolestate.edu/catalog...n-ed/aa-gened/

BBM

FACT: I was laid off -and during that time, I got unemployment AND finished my MBA.

MOO - although it may vary by state, and GA may differ from FL, I would be very surprised if that was exclusionary as unemployment really supports getting educational advancement during the time you are collecting it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Just K View Post
As some have stated, we don't even know when that gun came out. We also don't know if GZ chased TM and in the process the two fell to the ground, with TM landing on top. Unless someone video taped the chasing through the two of them landing on the ground, we may never have the real story as to how, when or why that gun came out or how the two ended up in the position that they ended up in.

At best, it is an unholy mess. BUT, a mess that began because GZ assumed that TM was guilty of a crime that had not even been committed.
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Originally Posted by magnolia View Post
I agree with you. It is a mess. However, in a court of law, "who is responsible for how it ended" will be more important than "who is responsible for how it began". In my lay opinion
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Originally Posted by Aedrys View Post
We already know who was responsible for how it ultimately ended. GZ pulled a trigger, and shot and killed Trayvon. Who was responsible for how it began has everything to do with how it ended and the responsiblity for how it ended. A jury will get to judge whether GZ's actions of following and confronting Trayvon is more believable than Trayvon hiding and jumping GZ. Everything that led up to the gunshot is going to play in the jury's decision. They're not going to ignore everything that led up to it and just focus on the last few seconds. At least, I would hope not.
Yes, we all know Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. I do not agree that he is definitely responsible for how it ended.

Respectfully,my reply was not in response to "everything that led up to the shooting". My reply was in response to "how it began".
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
According to the family.

Also remember:
Rossane Barr tweeted Robert and Gladys' CORRECT home address.

They say they have recieved thousands of threats. I find them to be credible.

Everyone who is connected to GZ should not automatically be considered liars IMO.
I think people are just calling it like they see it. There have been many lies told by Zimmerman and his family and these are well documented throughout the interviews, letters, and in the bond hearing.


~jmo~
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv View Post
Correct, which is why the chain of custody is important...another reason it might not be introduced to evidence...it has to have a chain of custody attached to it to be accepted into evidence...for now, it's only a photo someone took..don't know if it was enhanced, photoshopped..so it's not evidence for a court of law...unless LE took it and took possession of the photo...
I'm sorry. I was talking about the photos in the article not the bloody head photo.

I have seen it already assumed that GZ's family sold the photos. I don't think we can assume that because I think they are generic and could have come from a lot of different places.

JMO
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