17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by Karmady

He most certainly did. And I lost the forest for the trees for a moment there. I am now 99.9% convinced that O'Mara knows that the FBI enhancement was inconclusive or contrary. jmo

I don't think the FBI would disclose anything to MOM since they, themselves, are investigating GZ. Good try though. jmo

[LolaMoon08]

Frank T. is in more danger than Zimmerman's family, IMO. No one wants to do anything to George's family, or even George, imo. It's all smoke and mirrors. Now don't get me wrong, I believe they have gotten hate mail, but pffttt!

MOO

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by mercuriod

That is what I was saying, it was NOT the off-duty narcotics officer that took that supposed picture of GZ's head.

OOOOhhhhhhh. I thought you were saying he did. Sorry. I need ice cream. lol

[Karmady]

Originally Posted by LolaMoon08

I can't wait until an actual hearing in this case about whether or not evidence will be allowed in/out of the trial. All this over a bond hearing? It was a bond hearing! This was not a trial or even a hearing about evidence. Still trying to figure out why it was even brought up in the first place as O'Mara hadn't been given any discovery.

MOO

It's sworn testimony. It will always be allowed to impeach direct testimony on the same subject.


ggulitigation.com/.../Impeachment-By-Prior-Inconsistent-Sworn-Statement-Handout.pdf -

[Nova]

Originally Posted by Phoenixfla

I don't understand. If the FBI concluded it was not GZ, and the two experts concluded it was not GZ, who else could it possibly be?

To me it indicates the FBI results were inconclusive or that they found that it was more likely GZ.

It could have been a third, as yet unidentified, party. A horrified witness, say.

No, I don't think it was, but Gilbreath was asked if the testing itself identified the source of the voice. He had to respond "no." That won't prevent the State from arguing in the future that logical deduction leads one to the conclusion it was TM screaming.

And besides, the State had already decided to depend, for the moment anyway, on TM's mother's identification of the screams.

[Karmady]

Originally Posted by LambChop

I don't think the FBI would disclose anything to MOM since they, themselves, are investigating GZ. Good try though. jmo

Maybe not, but I strongly believe that he knows it somehow. As I said, I am 99.9% certain that he knew the answer to that question before he asked it. It's jmo, I wasn't "trying" anything.

[Nova]

Originally Posted by Zak

BBM

So then if GZ is on the bottom (after being punched in the nose, having his head banged off of the concrete) and Trayvon is on the top of him..... with GZ screaming for help....they are fighting over the gun....GZ gets it first and shoots Trayvon.....at that point you would expect GZ to continue screaming for help even after the struggle is over? I think the screams for help going silent when the shot is fired works both ways. JMO

It's possible. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if a person--who was genuinely in fear for his life--continued to scream after firing a shot. How would he know instantly that the shot had hit its mark?

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Karmady

It's sworn testimony. It will always be allowed to impeach direct testimony on the same subject.


ggulitigation.com/.../Impeachment-By-Prior-Inconsistent-Sworn-Statement-Handout.pdf -

So? What did they say that was so bad? They couldn't very well answer questions they didn't know the answers to. IMO, it's none of their business what the SA has until it is ready to be handed over through discovery.

MOO

[Phoenixfla]

Originally Posted by LambChop

To be truthful I think the minute his story conflicted with the evidence (which was right away according to the homocide detective) GZ convicted himself. My problem with GZ was the minute he stepped out of the truck and did not listen to LE when they told him to return to the truck to meet patrol when they arrived. At that point I believe he decided TM's fate for him. jmo

I understand what your saying. But the way I look at it is that he was just trying to keep an eye on TM until the police arrived. I have not seen anything to convince me that he approached TM. Maybe he did, or maybe TM came back and approached him. Maybe they were both walking toward each other at one point. I don't know. To me that is moot and the relevant question is who threw the first blow.

[highflyer]

Originally Posted by Karmady

They could still appear telephonically, or with security and bullet proof vests. jmo

Perhaps telephonically while in bullet proof vests surrounded by security.

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by jjenny

GZ's jacket is red with black stripe on the back. Trayvon was wearing a grey hoodie (nothing red).

Zimmerman's jacket...

[mercuriod]

Originally Posted by LambChop

OOOOhhhhhhh. I thought you were saying he did. Sorry. I need ice cream. lol

LOL, I don't have ice cream, but can offer white chocolate macadamia nut cookies or triple chocolate chip cookies, all homemade.

[Nova]

Originally Posted by Phoenixfla

Also, O'Mara took a huge risk asking that question if he did not already know the answer. He knew the answer because it was GZ screaming. If Gilbreath would have come back and said "Yes, we have concluded with a high probability that it was not GZ that screamed on the 911 call", it would have been the headline of every newspaper around the world. It was a huge risk.

If the DA had those test results, they would come out eventually anyway.

All O'Mara risked was their coming out now, with plenty of time for the resulting furor to die down before trial. If the DA has such proof, the defense wants it out sooner rather than later, because it might affect O'Mara's entire approach to his defense of GZ.

[Adrienne37]

Casey Anthony case shows scope of evidence possible in George Zimmerman case...

Why is discovery in court cases important? Because it gives defense attorneys — and the public — a peek inside the prosecution's case.

The state's most high-profile recent case showed the kind — and quantity — of evidence that's possible when discovery is released.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,2889598.story

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by vlpate

Zimmerman's jacket...

He's also wearing a gray t-shirt that could pass as a "white t-shirt" to a witness. With all the wrestling and tugging, I wouldn't be surprised if jackets had risen up.

Do we know what color shirt Trayvon had on underneath his hoodie?

MOO

[Adrienne37]

When Zimmerman evidence is released, what will it show?
Things to look for: Evidence of injuries to Zimmerman, bruises and cuts on Trayvon, inconsistencies in Zimmerman's five statements...

What evidence does Special Prosecutor Angela Corey have that prompted her to charge George Zimmerman with murdering Trayvon Martin? So far, she has refused to say.

Before long, though, she will be required by law to release the evidence — which fills several boxes. What will it show?

"It'll be like little bits and pieces that will have to be strung together," said Adam Pollack, an Orlando criminal-trial attorney. "Almost a bunch of little dots. Initially, the little dots don't make much sense, but if you step back, you see a bigger picture."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,5841658.story

[Nova]

Originally Posted by Karmady

Excellent, excellent point. You know "the rule"!

The "rule" only applies to questions that are sure to go unanswered if unasked.

The tests of the screams are going to be made public whether or not O'Mara asks about them.

Frankly, what is odd is the willingness of some to believe Corey is relying on TM's mother's i.d. alone, without any preliminary, confirmatory testing. It's going to be HUGELY destructive to the State's case if testing reveals the screams to come from GZ after the State has made its assertions in the probable cause affidavit.

I think it's much more likely that preliminary testing has shown what we have heard: that the screams do not seem to come from GZ. So the SA is willing to rely on the mother's account while they wait for a positive vocal i.d.

[octobermoon]

I can't find any SYG man against woman. Man against criminal/s, woman against abuser. Yes, But not a darn one of a man protecting himself from a woman or teenage girl?

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by Karmady

Maybe not, but I strongly believe that he knows it somehow. As I said, I am 99.9% certain that he knew the answer to that question before he asked it. It's jmo, I wasn't "trying" anything.

I'm sure he checked to see if there was still an ongoing investigation by the FBI and we all know the FBI does not give up those reports easily. It's a pretty safe bet that the SA does not have any information other than OS and TM's Mom. Plus they cannot testify under oath that they know for certain because they don't. Only an expert could testify to that. MOM knows what an investigator can testify to and what he cannot. So some of the questions were pretty safe for MOM to ask because he did know the answer the investigator would have to give him in order to be truthful. jmo

[LolaMoon08]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

When Zimmerman evidence is released, what will it show?
Things to look for: Evidence of injuries to Zimmerman, bruises and cuts on Trayvon, inconsistencies in Zimmerman's five statements...

What evidence does Special Prosecutor Angela Corey have that prompted her to charge George Zimmerman with murdering Trayvon Martin? So far, she has refused to say.

Before long, though, she will be required by law to release the evidence — which fills several boxes. What will it show?

"It'll be like little bits and pieces that will have to be strung together," said Adam Pollack, an Orlando criminal-trial attorney. "Almost a bunch of little dots. Initially, the little dots don't make much sense, but if you step back, you see a bigger picture."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,5841658.story

I can't wait for the "dots" to start coming out! That's when Websleuths is at it's best. When we actually have evidence to piece together. Can't wait to see ConcernedPapa's maps showing GZ's actual claims and how Trayvon ended up where he ended up. Something tells me it's going to be veryyyyy interesting!

MOO

[Boytwnmom]

this keeps being repeated periodically even though I have never seen such a statement. As I've posted before:

Quote:
Tracy Martin said the calls paint a stark picture of what were his son's final moments.
"He was yelling for help, and no one could help him. He saw his life being taken away from him," Tracy Martin said.

Read more here: http://www.heraldonline.com/2012/03/...#storylink=cpy
Quote:
"My son was crying for help, and he still shot him," said Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father, upon listening to the tapes and hearing a voice believed to be his son terrifyingly muttering "No, no" as a gun-toting Zimmerman apparently approached.
Not to mention what his mother said:

Quote:
On the night of the shooting there were several 911 calls played by neighbors reporting a fight. In one of the calls, there is a voice in the background calling for help.

Sybrina says he believes that voice on the line is her son, telling Anderson, “I believe that's Trayvon Martin, that's my baby's voice. Every mother knows their child, and that's his voice. “

“He was afraid for his life,” says his father, “He saw his death coming. He saw his death coming. The screams got more frantic.”

I can hear the 911 tapes in my head. I can hear him yelling,” says Sybrina. “It's just very difficult as a mother to know that I had to bury my child

Read more: http://www.andersoncooper.com/2012/0...#ixzz1pzxgNo8e

Read more: http://www.andersoncooper.com/2012/0...#ixzz1pzxYhexL
__________________

Originally Posted by Karmady

Imo, that will NEVER happen. The State will also have to contend with Trayvon's father's initial statement that it was NOT Trayvon yelling.

[highflyer]

Originally Posted by mercuriod

LOL, I don't have ice cream, but can offer white chocolate macadamia nut cookies or triple chocolate chip cookies, all homemade.

Homemade triple chocolate chip cookies. MMMMMMM.

[octobermoon]

Originally Posted by mercuriod

LOL, I don't have ice cream, but can offer white chocolate macadamia nut cookies or triple chocolate chip cookies, all homemade.

YUM you are now officially the baker of the thread.

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by mercuriod

LOL, I don't have ice cream, but can offer white chocolate macadamia nut cookies or triple chocolate chip cookies, all homemade.

Thanks but I found a Klondike Bar and it's gone already. lol

[katydid23]

Originally Posted by Adrienne37

When Zimmerman evidence is released, what will it show?
Things to look for: Evidence of injuries to Zimmerman, bruises and cuts on Trayvon, inconsistencies in Zimmerman's five statements...

What evidence does Special Prosecutor Angela Corey have that prompted her to charge George Zimmerman with murdering Trayvon Martin? So far, she has refused to say.

Before long, though, she will be required by law to release the evidence — which fills several boxes. What will it show?

"It'll be like little bits and pieces that will have to be strung together," said Adam Pollack, an Orlando criminal-trial attorney. "Almost a bunch of little dots. Initially, the little dots don't make much sense, but if you step back, you see a bigger picture."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,5841658.story

Ruh-Roh....So they are expecting a Florida jury, chosen from a panel of people who do not read or listen to the news, to actually connect the dots on some circumstantial evidence...hmmmmmmm... That could be a problem.