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  #151  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by highflyer View Post
I have given this much thought too. And I find it much more terrifying that someone can call police, follow a handbook of what to tell police and go down the list on that call, stalk and murder an unarmed kid who went for candy and tea and not get arrested for it on the spot. That is terrifying. That is not at all how things are supposed to happen in this country. Wrongful persecution, I think not. May George be safe and have his day in court but remember in America it is alright to speak up when a travesty has been committed and those against killing kids are speaking up. George is in the spotlight, he put himself there and may it shine brightly.
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  #152  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:08 PM
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Sorry, LC, I'm not following whether this is directed at me or Dr.F, whose post I c&p'd rather than quoted (b/c I was already in the reply box and it was easier ). It's my understanding that a significant part of the George's jacket was red, and that Trayvon was not wearing any red at all.
With George laying on his back I would think a large portion of what John could see of the jacket would be black at least from the video I have seen of the jacket. IMO
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  #153  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
Imo, that will NEVER happen. The State will also have to contend with Trayvon's father's initial statement that it was NOT Trayvon yelling.
I would take the word of an expert over that of a father who just lost his son any day! You can't expect a father to be able to comprehend that those screams were his sons. That is for the experts to decide.

IMO, I do believe that both George and Trayvon could have been yelling at different moments, however, those last few seconds of Trayvon's life and listening to those screams and as soon as the shot is fired those screams go silent? That was Trayvon.

MOO
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  #154  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak View Post
I'd bet the farm that the FBI testing came back with a different result than the Orlando Sentinel. If it came back and matched that it was Trayvon then I've no doubt that Gilbreath would have said so when he testified. If he has the results of the guys hired by the Orlando Sentinel which say its Trayvon and the FBI concurs with that, he wouldn't have answered that neither test gave him any insight into whose voice it was.
Did they say if the tests had even come back yet? Maybe that is why he didn't have any insight?
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  #155  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
Imo, that will NEVER happen. The State will also have to contend with Trayvon's father's initial statement that it was NOT Trayvon yelling.
I don't think the State has to deal with anything. Once they play the tape it will be obvious on the parents faces that they are listening to their son screaming in horror. I believe Mr. Martin said the second time he heard the tape it was much clearer than the first time and he agreed it was his son. Since the tapes have been "cleared" up from when we originally heard them it does sound more like a kid than an adult. jmo
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  #156  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:12 PM
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Didn't Trayvon have red and white shoes on?
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  #157  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
If John got such a good look you would think he would have said the black guy was on top. Never says a word about what the guy on top was wearing. IMO
I just listened to his 911 call and in it he does say that the black guy is on the ground and dead. Please that not verbatim. I think he said black guy and not the guy in black. Anyone know for sure because I don't feel like getting the headset back out and listening again, lol.
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  #158  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Elley Mae View Post
iirc it is guestamated to take about a year to come to trial, they were renting the town home and probably had a year lease. Probably will pay the rent up to end lease, and are now living some place else they (will probably have to pay) still have all their other bills they had when they left, car, insurance, tuitions, etc, etc. $50,000 for two people to survive off of is not much. I for one do not feel the money is spent. It (the missing amount) was probably moved to an account that they (the z's) have access to. They will probably have to end up moving more from the defense account to their living expenses account before it is over. jmo
What really bothers me about this is how many people in our country want to support an accused murderer. It as if his crime pays. It is disgusting. jmo
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  #159  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Zak View Post
I'd bet the farm that the FBI testing came back with a different result than the Orlando Sentinel. If it came back and matched that it was Trayvon then I've no doubt that Gilbreath would have said so when he testified. If he has the results of the guys hired by the Orlando Sentinel which say its Trayvon and the FBI concurs with that, he wouldn't have answered that neither test gave him any insight into whose voice it was.
You have to remember though Gilbreath is giving out as little as possible about the evidence as possible.

I believe O'Mara is trying to make everything look shaky to the judge and the public to help lower the bond request and to keep the donations coming in. I think that is why he never specifically asked if it was Zimmerman's voice. IMO
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  #160  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:13 PM
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I still want to know who the neighbor was that took that picture? I want to know why it was so important to take a picture of George's head and not help the dying kid on the ground? You know, the unarmed one that wasn't moving compared to the man who was up, walking around, and making phone calls?

MOO
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  #161  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
Did they say if the tests had even come back yet? Maybe that is why he didn't have any insight?
If the tests were in they'd have to release them in discovery just like the other reports they will have. jmo
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  #162  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:15 PM
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Tippy toeing in with this jumbled question, does anyone know if a man has claimed SYG against a woman or teenage girl and was successful? IYKWIM and IANSIKWIM

IANSIKWIM= I am not sure I know what I mean
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Last edited by octobermoon; 04-28-2012 at 07:18 PM. Reason: help, I need a ghost writer~;)
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  #163  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CathyinTexas View Post
What really bothers me about this is how many people in our country want to support an accused murderer. It as if his crime pays. It is disgusting. jmo
And they are doing it all in the name of "gun rights" when this case has nothing to do with anyone's right to carry a gun. That is what confuses me so much. Gun owners should be mad at George... not supporting him!

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  #164  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I would take the word of an expert over that of a father who just lost his son any day! You can't expect a father to be able to comprehend that those screams were his sons. That is for the experts to decide.

IMO, I do believe that both George and Trayvon could have been yelling at different moments, however, those last few seconds of Trayvon's life and listening to those screams and as soon as the shot is fired those screams go silent? That was Trayvon.

MOO
Right wrt to the father. But they will still need to address it. I would argue that a grieving father pursuing justice for his son might err in the opposite direction, if anything.

That said, the first part of my post was about getting 100% expert agreement that it was not George yelling. Imo, that will never happen. Even putting aside the percentage match the Sentinal's expert gave. If the FBI says it was Trayvon, I would give it a better chance that no expert will contradict. But based on the investigator's testimony at the bond hearing, it doesn't sound to ME like that is the case. jmo
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  #165  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
You have to remember though Gilbreath is giving out as little as possible about the evidence as possible.

I believe O'Mara is trying to make everything look shaky to the judge and the public to help lower the bond request and to keep the donations coming in. I think that is why he never specifically asked if it was Zimmerman's voice. IMO
Exactly! It was a bond hearing! Nothing more... even though O'Mara tried to put on a mini-trial.

MOO
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  #166  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
I don't think the State has to deal with anything. Once they play the tape it will be obvious on the parents faces that they are listening to their son screaming in horror. I believe Mr. Martin said the second time he heard the tape it was much clearer than the first time and he agreed it was his son. Since the tapes have been "cleared" up from when we originally heard them it does sound more like a kid than an adult. jmo
Respectfully, I've heard the Zimmerman family claim its GZ calling for help. I've no reason not to believe the witness John who was right there and he hasn't made the TV show rounds seeking any publicity.
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  #167  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak View Post
I just listened to his 911 call and in it he does say that the black guy is on the ground and dead. Please that not verbatim. I think he said black guy and not the guy in black. Anyone know for sure because I don't feel like getting the headset back out and listening again, lol.
Do we know for sure which 911 call is John's or a good guess? Wasn't there one where they say the black guy is walking around?

I need to listen to them again.
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  #168  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
Do we know for sure which 911 call is John's or a good guess? Wasn't there one where they say the black guy is walking around?

I need to listen to them again.
I think John was the first call that was released?

MOO
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  #169  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
I believe if the evidence does not agree with the story GZ has told they would not acquit. Evidence does not support GZ stories of how it happened. Take your pick, the evidence does not match any of them. jmo
Well that's the prosecution's position, and I expect the defense to take that same evidence and present it in a way that supports his story. I'm with you that if the evidence dramatically contradicts his story, find him guilty, but i'm just saying that some of the posters here (not necessarily you) 100% believe the prosecution, they put 100% faith in anything that supports convicting GZ, and discount anything that supports his story.

I just want him to get a fair trial. I think the media has convicted him already, and the evidence has barely started to be released.

I don't want to set a guilty man free, but I definitely do not want to jail an innocent man.
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  #170  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Zak View Post
Respectfully, I've heard the Zimmerman family claim its GZ calling for help. I've no reason not to believe the witness John who was right there and he hasn't made the TV show rounds seeking any publicity.
This is where I have a problem. I'm not sure John was close enough to see who was screaming. I'm not sure that it was LE who, like with two other witnesses, told THEM that it was GZ screaming.

We have not heard from John since they knocked on his door that day. We have no idea what he told the SA about what he actually saw that night and what he heard. He could have just as easily, as the other two witnesses, been told that it was GZ screaming.

MOO
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  #171  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Zak View Post
I just listened to his 911 call and in it he does say that the black guy is on the ground and dead. Please that not verbatim. I think he said black guy and not the guy in black. Anyone know for sure because I don't feel like getting the headset back out and listening again, lol.
No I absolutely disagree with this, I suggest unfortunately you may have to listen yet again.
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  #172  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:26 PM
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What is going to matter is the depositions! All these statements, IMO, are going to be moot because the investigators were leading witnesses to a conclusion that it was GZ screaming. Until we see John's deposition, we have no idea if he ALSO was told by LE that it was GZ screaming and that is why he told the media that it was GZ screaming.

We'll just have to wait and see.

MOO
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  #173  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
If John got such a good look you would think he would have said the black guy was on top. Never says a word about what the guy on top was wearing. IMO
I thought his hood was up?
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  #174  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:28 PM
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Right wrt to the father. But they will still need to address it. I would argue that a grieving father pursuing justice for his son might err in the opposite direction, if anything.

That said, the first part of my post was about getting 100% expert agreement that it was not George yelling. Imo, that will never happen. Even putting aside the percentage match the Sentinal's expert gave. If the FBI says it was Trayvon, I would give it a better chance that no expert will contradict. But based on the investigator's testimony at the bond hearing, it doesn't sound to ME like that is the case. jmo
The question was asked about the voice, not whether or not the voice belonged to GZ. Had MOM asked that question the inspector would have said the conclusion from both tests were that it was not consistent with GZ's voice. We already know that. MOM deliberately asked about identifying the voice. No test was done on TM's voice by the OS experts but we know the FBI performed tests. MOM did not ask if the inspector had seen the results of the FBI tests and seriously doubt they have been released because the FBI and Justice Department still have an ongoing investigation. jmo
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  #175  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I still want to know who the neighbor was that took that picture? I want to know why it was so important to take a picture of George's head and not help the dying kid on the ground? You know, the unarmed one that wasn't moving compared to the man who was up, walking around, and making phone calls?

MOO
Oh hallelujah sister, as one of my first posts about this supposed picture stated, whoever took that pic if it is really GZ has just as depraved mind as GZ does, it is more "important" to them to take a picture of a TEENY, TINY SCRATCH, than to try to help a dying child. SICK, SICK, SICK!
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