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  #326  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fulton View Post
with the news intentionally distorting the evidence we see, it's no wonder some of us are confused. I have seen a viedo of gz with a red news banner over his head and the newsperson blurting out" i cant see any injuries". The other reporter who edited the phone calls from gz to the police to make them seem racist.(he has since been fired) what else has the media let loose to sway our views. They should all be charged with obstruction. The scenerio that gz gave the day of the incident was suported by witnesses and the police. Gz statements held up thats why no arrest was made. Just because something happens you dont need to have an arrest. It's called probable cause.it was disigned to protect the innocent from undo litigation and prison time. In this case that has gone out the window to run away emotions.the injuries to gz clealy support what he and others saw. its a shame an innocent man doing his job as neighborhood watch challanging strangers is being put thru this railroading.

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  #327  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:20 PM
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I would have a problem if GZ started changing his story and the witnesses changed theirs. but since day 1 it seems that everyone has pretty much been on the same page as to what happened.
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  #328  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:21 PM
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I do apologize, I wasn't basing that on my own opinion of the call as a regular person viewing the forums, more of a defense lawyer knowing that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Given the statement made, I see no proof of who confronted who. Given that Detective Gilbreath stated the same at the bail hearing it's not evidence for the prosecution.

My opinion is this:

I do not think they'll call her to testify. Something about hearsay and the fact that what she has said doesn't help the prosecution makes me think it's a waste of time to even worry about what she's said. This prosecution has made a fool of me before though, so I may eat my words.
She was going to testify before the Grand Jury. I believe it may be admissible because she was talking to the victim who is now dead. jmo
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  #329  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:26 PM
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Trayvon Martin's family met with the Miami Heat and NY Nicks just before the 2012 playoff game.
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  #330  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:27 PM
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http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-...n-james-photos
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  #331  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
Trayvon Martin's family met with the Miami Heat and NY Nicks just before the 2012 playoff game.
And? What does this have to do with GZ's injuries?
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  #332  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FULTON View Post
I have seen a close up view of this picture. There are two open wounds that required butterfly clamps to close. How many slams does it take to open up two large gashes that require that type of treatment. A professional boxer gets hit many times in the face before a wound opens up.
If those injuries did in fact require butterfly clamps to close them then why did EMS, after checking Zimmerman out that night, let him leave the scene without so much as a regular bandage on his head at all? This is my biggest problem with the so called evidence that Zimmerman was seriously injured that night. I find EMS more credible than any photo released by goodness knows who the night before a bail/bond hearing.

MOO
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  #333  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Lovelymountains View Post
I saw him with no injuries, as did everyone here who saw the police station surveillance tape. No visible injuries. Nada. None. I did later see something that was supposed to be an "Enhanced" version of the surveillance tape. Had a big red "X" on the top of his head. No resemblance to the so-called injuries shown on the ABC photo.
https://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2012/...ge-zimmermans-

This site has a close up view of GZ head look at the obvious open wounds that required clamps to close. It would probably take several blows to the head to open that kind if wound. A professional boxer can get hit 40 or 50 times in the face before the skin breaks down and stitches are required.
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  #334  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:33 PM
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And? What does this have to do with GZ's injuries?
sorry, posted it in the wrong thread.
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  #335  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AJ Noiter View Post
I do apologize, I wasn't basing that on my own opinion of the call as a regular person viewing the forums, more of a defense lawyer knowing that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Given the statement made, I see no proof of who confronted who. Given that Detective Gilbreath stated the same at the bail hearing it's not evidence for the prosecution.

My opinion is this:

I do not think they'll call her to testify. Something about hearsay and the fact that what she has said doesn't help the prosecution makes me think it's a waste of time to even worry about what she's said. This prosecution has made a fool of me before though, so I may eat my words.
BBM Are you basing your opinion on being a lawyer? If so, please get verified. I have lots of questions.

I think she will be called under the Florida Statutes under Evidence 90.803 Hearsay Exceptions. IMHO paragraphs (1)(2) and (3) all apply.

http://law.onecle.com/florida/evidence/90.803.html
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  #336  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by francie View Post
George claims he was beaten to a pulp on the sidewalk & had his nose broken but nothing is visible in police video 20 minutes afterwards at SPD! Why would anyone believe him about self-defense when he lied about his injuries? He created faux injuries in his statements & lied about self-defense to justify gunning down Trayvon so nothing he says can be trusted JMO. Once a liar always a liar, especially to get out of trouble (this time a MURDER charge!!) all jmo.

It was reported that GZ was cleaned up before he got all bloody in that police car. In todays world with aids and hepatitis I didn't blame the police for making EMS clean him up real well before he got in close proximity to anyone.
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  #337  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Indy Anna View Post
Why would GZ suddenly turn around and walk away from TM while asking him what he was doing there, and after TM asked why he was following him?

And, why dismiss the words of TM's gf but not those of GZ, the one who pulled the trigger? LE has determined that she and TM were talking on the cell phone around the time of the incident, and GZ's recorded 911 call does corroborate her claim that GZ was following TM. The gf's testimony isn't any less credible than an eyewitness account.

I think the case will hinge on expert testimony regarding whose voice was heard screaming for help.
If I were a juror, I would give less credibility to the g/f's testimony because she was asked to recall a 4 minute phone call that occurred 3 weeks prior to Crump's initial questioning. Zimmerman was there that night, eyewitnesses were asked immediately for statements - statements that are consistent with GZ's initial statement. He could not have known what the witnesses were telling LE at the same time he was being questioned at the station.

The g/f's statement does corroborate what is in the 911 call, which Crump received a copy of two days before her story broke. In fact, corroborates with the 911 call to the exact minute GZ lost sight of TM.

LE hasn't determined anything in regards to the phone call between TM and his alleged girlfriend. The investigators for the SP conducted a phone conversation and obtained her written statement, but no conclusions that I am aware of have been made by LE, her statement has simply been added to the prosecutors side of the case.

JMO
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  #338  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
She was going to testify before the Grand Jury. I believe it may be admissible because she was talking to the victim who is now dead. jmo
IIRC, Sonny Hostin threw that bit of information out on CNN at some point. Grand Jury subpoenas are kept secret, so no one knows whether or not she was going to be called to testify. JMO
  #339  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:57 PM
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George's 'source' claimed he was frightened that Trayvon was circling his vehicle. But that didn't happen imo because Trayvon wasn't "at" George's vehicle, because George didn't call 911 EMERGENCY & didn't bother to tell the dispatcher! Plus George had to run after Trayvon to catch up and kill him, and that's a fact because we know Trayvon was shot approx 233 ft from George's truck per Concerned Papa's great maps & SFD calls.

Imo George did NOT have the injuries he claims, there was no actual 'fight' because Trayvon was just trying to get away when George pulled his gun, thus the horrible cries from Trayvon before he was shot. So..... was George frightened, threatened, ticked-off or obsessed with a black kid that dared to walk on "George's" property when he decided to pursue & kill him? All JMO.

Can you show a link to the maps &SFD Thanks. Also what marks did TM have in the great struggle for his life with all his screams
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  #340  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by FULTON View Post
It was reported that GZ was cleaned up before he got all bloody in that police car. In todays world with aids and hepatitis I didn't blame the police for making EMS clean him up real well before he got in close proximity to anyone.
Did they put the butterfly bandages on him before he got in the car? or when he got to the station? I don't see any in the photo you provided. Maybe they (the emt) put that stuff men use when they cut themselves shaving? I don't mean tissue or gauze, it is a little white crayon thingy.

Nevermind me

I will go look for the correct term. I didn't see any butterfly bandages on him at the station or any blood on his clothes. So it makes me wonder.
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  #341  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:00 PM
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That's your choice but I think the police video says it all & he's lying to save himself. JMO

The police video of GZ going into the jail was AFTER he was cleaned up by EMT.
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  #342  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:06 PM
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Sorry for the derailing the thread.

It is called a Stytic pencil. We always used a plain aspirin.

Back to your regular programming....
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  #343  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by francie View Post
George's 'source' claimed he was frightened that Trayvon was circling his vehicle. But that didn't happen imo because Trayvon wasn't "at" George's vehicle, because George didn't call 911 EMERGENCY & didn't bother to tell the dispatcher! Plus George had to run after Trayvon to catch up and kill him, and that's a fact because we know Trayvon was shot approx 233 ft from George's truck per Concerned Papa's great maps & SFD calls.

Imo George did NOT have the injuries he claims, there was no actual 'fight' because Trayvon was just trying to get away when George pulled his gun, thus the horrible cries from Trayvon before he was shot. So..... was George frightened, threatened, ticked-off or obsessed with a black kid that dared to walk on "George's" property when he decided to pursue & kill him? All JMO.

With all due respect to Concerned Papa and his thought provoing map, we do not know for a fact where GZ's truck was parked. The SFD audio did not reveal where GZ's truck was parked. The police have never released the exact location of where either GZ's truck or TM's body were found that night. Hopefully we will be availed of those facts SOON!!

JMO
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  #344  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:18 PM
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Was this posted in the wrong thread too? I don't see the relevance to GZ's injuries. Maybe you could open a new thread for posts of this nature? Just a suggestion.
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  #345  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:19 PM
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I am lost now. Where do the butterfly clamps suddenly come in. More specifically what the heck are medical butterfly clamps anyway? No such thing was shown on any video when GZ was taken to the police station shortly after the shooting.
A neighbor mentioned that GZ had a butterfly bandaid on the back of his head and a protective plaster on his nose the next day while he was getting ready to get out of Dodge.
And from this older pretty detailed article (before all the embellishments started) I snipped this:

“They were not huge gashes,” the father said. “When he went to the doctor the next day, he said he could stitch it, but that he would have to recut it since it had started to heal. He may not have gone to the hospital earlier than that because he was in police custody for a while, and was very shaken up afterwards.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...agewanted=7&hp
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  #346  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:21 PM
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I know the photo shows two cuts. I've never said he had none ,but it's the lack of injuries in those places. If your laying on your back with your head being pounded, wouldn't you be moving around trying to buck the person off that is beating the crap out of you?

I would expect to see bloody abrasions along with the gashes. I would expect to see more blood and in more places than what is shown in that photo. Wouldn't you be grabbing the hands that were holding your head to make them stop and let go? Wouldn't you, in a death struggle, be moving all over the place, moving your head and body around trying to get away.

That to me, as a reasonable person, seems more likely than two minor cuts on the back of his head that really had a small amount of blood.

I think GZ took it upon himself to be an armed patrol and a bully and a young man got killed. It wasn't like he had no choices to make. He made a choice and created a hostile situation and a confrontation that ended in a young boys death.

He could of made his presence known in less aggressive ways and made his point.

He could of diffused the situation by making eye contact and a hey how are? Most people would nod and move on after being seen. That was what Trayvon was doing. He was seen by a strange acting man that was now after him. He had every reason to be alarmed and he was doing exactly what the majority of people would of done. He was moving on.
Where there any injuries to TM??? So TM attacked him for looking at him where is that allowed. If I saw a strange man looking at me when I was 17 I would have out ran him to my house where there was help. I don't think I would have attacked an adult. A 17 year old could easily out run an adult any day of the week especially running scared.
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  #347  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:24 PM
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Why would GZ suddenly turn around and walk away from TM while asking him what he was doing there, and after TM asked why he was following him?
You're misunderstanding what I said. We know there was a period of time where Zimmerman was not chasing Trayvon. We know that based on the 911 call there was a good period of time where Zimmerman was speaking to a dispatcher after he lost sight of Trayvon. We know this confrontation didn't happen at that time because the 911 dispatcher would have the conversation on tape. Zimmerman was not said to be returning to his car until after he hung up with the dispatcher. That's where we pick up, with Zimmerman heading back to his car after hanging up with 911:

- Trayvon: Why are you following me?
*Zimmerman stops and turns around to see who is talking to him*
- Zimmerman: What are you doing here?


Quote:
And, why dismiss the words of TM's gf but not those of GZ, the one who pulled the trigger? LE has determined that she and TM were talking on the cell phone around the time of the incident, and GZ's recorded 911 call does corroborate her claim that GZ was following TM. The gf's testimony isn't any less credible than an eyewitness account.

I think the case will hinge on expert testimony regarding whose voice was heard screaming for help.
The words of Trayvon are coming from a 3rd party, which is hearsay. Not very often is it even allowed in court, and when it is, not very often would a prosecutor use it unless it helps their story. In this case there is nothing that states who confronted who, as per the example I made above, it could very well be that Trayvon approached Zimmerman. The defense will use this against the prosecution if she's called to testify, I promise you that.
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  #348  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Omachka View Post
BBM Are you basing your opinion on being a lawyer? If so, please get verified. I have lots of questions.

I think she will be called under the Florida Statutes under Evidence 90.803 Hearsay Exceptions. IMHO paragraphs (1)(2) and (3) all apply.

http://law.onecle.com/florida/evidence/90.803.html
No, I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I have worked for lawyers but I am not a lawyer, I was simply putting myself in the shoes of a defense lawyer on this case.
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  #349  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:35 PM
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You're misunderstanding what I said. We know there was a period of time where Zimmerman was not chasing Trayvon. We know that based on the 911 call there was a good period of time where Zimmerman was speaking to a dispatcher after he lost sight of Trayvon. We know this confrontation didn't happen at that time because the 911 dispatcher would have the conversation on tape. Zimmerman was not said to be returning to his car until after he hung up with the dispatcher. That's where we pick up, with Zimmerman heading back to his car after hanging up with 911:

- Trayvon: Why are you following me?
*Zimmerman stops and turns around to see who is talking to him*
- Zimmerman: What are you doing here?




The words of Trayvon are coming from a 3rd party, which is hearsay. Not very often is it even allowed in court, and when it is, not very often would a prosecutor use it unless it helps their story. In this case there is nothing that states who confronted who, as per the example I made above, it could very well be that Trayvon approached Zimmerman. The defense will use this against the prosecution if she's called to testify, I promise you that.
It doesn't really make sense to me that TM would approach him and ask him why he is following TM, from behind so that G has to turn around to see who is talking to him.

If TM approaches GZ from behind and GZ has to turn around to see TM, he was clearly not following TM, it was TM who was following GZ so why on earth would TM have asked that question?
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  #350  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:37 PM
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Where there any injuries to TM??? So TM attacked him for looking at him where is that allowed. If I saw a strange man looking at me when I was 17 I would have out ran him to my house where there was help. I don't think I would have attacked an adult. A 17 year old could easily out run an adult any day of the week especially running scared.
Running to where? He was almost home. And only a 14 year old was at home. Trayvon might have not wanted to inform the freaky scary stranger where he was living. No guarantee that the loon would not be banging and/or breaking down the door. I think an attack was justified and logical if it really happened.. He tried (unsuccessful) to lose GZ earlier. He already had done that part of running away from the aggressor. .
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