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Old 04-30-2012, 10:05 PM
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GZ Case - Defense Perspective

Thought I would start a thread to discuss the case from the perspective of the defense. Debate and discussion encouraged, but the purpose of this thread is to keep an open mind to the possibility that GZs story is accurate, and may have been acting in self defense.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:36 PM
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Here is a good link to a transcript of all the 911 calls.:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20...-teen-is-shot/
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:40 PM
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You know how the defense could resolve the 911 screams:

Recreate the call using the exact phone, in the same apartment to call 911 and have it recorded with GZ screaming 'help help help'. Then compare that tape to the original.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:42 PM
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Has anything been said about possible video from the security cams around the complex or at the Clubhouse? I am very interested in seeing what, if anything, may have been captured. That would go a long way toward clearing up exactly what happened during the encounter with these two.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:44 PM
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You know how the defense could resolve the 911 screams:

Recreate the call using the exact phone, in the same apartment to call 911 and have it recorded with GZ screaming 'help help help'. Then compare that tape to the original.
That would be helpful if MO'M would allow it. Also, if they could get video of TM speaking.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:54 PM
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That would be helpful if MO'M would allow it. Also, if they could get video of TM speaking.
I never understood how they can conclude anything without both voices to sample. I understand that the results show a certain percentage match, and those results must then be interpreted. I contend that it is possible that the match to TM's voice COULD have been a lower percentage than GMs, but without analysis of TMs voice also, the analysis is majorly flawed.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:00 PM
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I never understood how they can conclude anything without both voices to sample. I understand that the results show a certain percentage match, and those results must then be interpreted. I contend that it is possible that the match to TM's voice COULD have been a lower percentage than GMs, but without analysis of TMs voice also, the analysis is majorly flawed.
Agree. They need a sampling of both voices in order to say with any certainty whose voice it is. I don't know if they will bother doing it if the testing isn't allowed in court, but they may. I would like to hear the results if they are able to take it further.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:06 PM
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I never understood how they can conclude anything without both voices to sample. I understand that the results show a certain percentage match, and those results must then be interpreted. I contend that it is possible that the match to TM's voice COULD have been a lower percentage than GMs, but without analysis of TMs voice also, the analysis is majorly flawed.
I agree. Without TM's voice to sample, I don't see how it can be used by the prosecution, especially given that the one witness says the man in the red "sweater" was on the ground screaming for help. IMO, it is quite likely that both TM and GZ were screaming.

JMO, OMO, and
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:39 PM
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I agree. Without TM's voice to sample, I don't see how it can be used by the prosecution, especially given that the one witness says the man in the red "sweater" was on the ground screaming for help. IMO, it is quite likely that both TM and GZ were screaming.

JMO, OMO, and
Gilbreath eluded to the fact that the FBI has also analyzed them. Can't wait to see their analysis.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:27 PM
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I am not sure that it matters who was screaming. Because I think there is a good possibility that at the time of the screams, they were both fighting over control of the gun.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:30 PM
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If TM was just laying on the ground screaming for his life, and GZ was sitting on top of him, holding him at gun point, waiting for LE to arrive any second, WHY the heck would he pull the trigger?

GZ KNOWS there are plenty of people there already looking out their windows. Why would he shoot someone for no reason on front of many witnesses just as LE is about to appear? The only reason that I can think of is that he was battling over control of the gun and had no choice.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:35 PM
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I am not sure that it matters who was screaming. Because I think there is a good possibility that at the time of the screams, they were both fighting over control of the gun.
I disagree. Screaming would be expressing fear and wanting help. It is important.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:38 PM
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I disagree. Screaming would be expressing fear and wanting help. It is important.
Exactly, expressing fear, wanting help, as you fight over a loaded gun.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:10 PM
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Gilbreath eluded to the fact that the FBI has also analyzed them. Can't wait to see their analysis.
He said he had no insight into who was screaming. IF FBI could arrive to any conclusion why does he have no insight?
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:02 AM
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One of those inconsistencies: Zimmerman told police Trayvon had his hand over Zimmerman's mouth during their fight on the night he shot Trayvon.

The Sentinel's source confirmed that Zimmerman's statements include that allegation. But authorities do not believe that happened, the source told the Sentinel, because on one 911 call, someone can be heard screaming for help. If it were Zimmerman, as he claims, his cries were not muffled, the source said.

Zimmerman also told police, the source told the Sentinel, that while the two were on the ground, Trayvon reached for Zimmerman's gun, and the two struggled over it.

Those portions of Zimmerman's account are not corroborated by other evidence, the source said.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayv...0,163416.story


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If that horrific scream for help was from GZ and his claim of TM covering his mouth with his hands, you'd hear it muffled but that's not the case, in my belief..

That horrific scream for help, I believe, was TM for right after the POP, the scream stops...if it were GZ, he'd continue to scream, not get off TM's dead body (back) and immediately put his hands to his head while he paced..I don't believe for one nanosecond that horrific scream was GZ..

Which is part of the depravity of his charges...I believe there might be other depravities we are not privy too yet...
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
He said he had no insight into who was screaming. IF FBI could arrive to any conclusion why does he have no insight?
I made the same exact argument a few days ago. That seems evident to me also, but some maintain that Gilbreath would have to know with certainty for him to have "insight".

I speculated that the FBI analysis was either inconclusive, or it contradicted what the other two "experts" claim.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv View Post
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayv...0,163416.story


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If that horrific scream for help was from GZ and his claim of TM covering his mouth with his hands, you'd hear it muffled but that's not the case, in my belief..
That horrific scream for help, I believe, was TM for right after the POP, the scream stops...if it were GZ, he'd continue to scream, not get off TM's dead body (back) and immediately put his hands to his head while he paced..I don't believe for one nanosecond that horrific scream was GZ..

Which is part of the depravity of his charges...I believe there might be other depravities we are not privy too yet...
Unless the REASON he covered GZ mouth was because he was screaming? Perhaps it went like this....scream, scream, scream, cover mouth, pull gun, shoot.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:37 AM
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He said he had no insight into who was screaming. IF FBI could arrive to any conclusion why does he have no insight?
The meaning of the word "insight" is intuitive understanding. Courtroom testimony regarding the FBI tape analysis is a matter of scientific analysis and FACT, therefore, the INTUITION of a detective is not a means of determining for a COURT case who was screaming. The answer given by this witness was very appropriate---answer the question asked, but offer NO extra information until the appropriate time and the expert person with the actual factual analysis is available on the stand.

jmo
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:09 AM
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The meaning of the word "insight" is intuitive understanding. Courtroom testimony regarding the FBI tape analysis is a matter of scientific analysis and FACT, therefore, the INTUITION of a detective is not a means of determining for a COURT case who was screaming. The answer given by this witness was very appropriate---answer the question asked, but offer NO extra information until the appropriate time and the expert person with the actual factual analysis is available on the stand.

jmo
But that still means that Gilbreath does not have a definative answer, or else he would not need intuition.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:47 AM
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Unless the REASON he covered GZ mouth was because he was screaming? Perhaps it went like this....scream, scream, scream, cover mouth, pull gun, shoot.
IMO, I find GZ's claim that TM covered his mouth (or attempted to cover his mouth) to be very plausible. And, you make a good point that this is when GZ might have been able to grab his gun.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:18 PM
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He said he had no insight into who was screaming. IF FBI could arrive to any conclusion why does he have no insight?
It could be because they are conducting their own investigation and until they are finished I doubt you will see much from the FBI. They aren't governed by the same rules as the state. He may not have insight because he has not seen their final report. He only is aware that there will be one. jmo
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:56 PM
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There is a ton of assuming and speculating going on in order to push public perception of GZ to an innocent man. The only facts in evidence? GZ put killer bullets in his gun. IMO, the only reason a person uses these bullets is to make sure and kill someone. GZ took his weapon on watch that night. GZ profiled TM by the way he LOOKED. GZ called 911 and was told not to follow TM. GZ disregarded LE instructions, took his weapon out of the truck, follwed TM and shot him dead. The other evidence on social media? <modsnipped>

Last edited by Harmony2; 05-05-2012 at 12:37 AM. Reason: snipped name-calling
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:57 PM
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It could be because they are conducting their own investigation and until they are finished I doubt you will see much from the FBI. They aren't governed by the same rules as the state. He may not have insight because he has not seen their final report. He only is aware that there will be one. jmo
I have considered that, and still believe that is possible, but his testimony was that they had conducted an analysis (past tense). I may be reading too much into the past tense language though.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:15 PM
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I have considered that, and still believe that is possible, but his testimony was that they had conducted an analysis (past tense). I may be reading too much into the past tense language though.
Not sure you followed the Anthony case but her attorney wanted information from them and they would not release it until they were good and ready. They don't have to and can sit on it for a long time until they do a formal report. It could be they are planning on running more tests. It could be there is some new software coming in or an expert they want to set up testing with. They don't answer to the State of Florida, nor will they answer to MOM. He will have to wait until the FBI decides they are ready to release information. I don't believe they are obligated to when they are still investigating a case. And they do have an open case unless someone has heard they have closed it. But I believe it is ongoing.

What could be worse for GZ, not only the State is looking into this but the FBI and the Justice Department. Seems to me no stone will be unturned. jmo
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:07 PM
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Not sure you followed the Anthony case but her attorney wanted information from them and they would not release it until they were good and ready. They don't have to and can sit on it for a long time until they do a formal report. It could be they are planning on running more tests. It could be there is some new software coming in or an expert they want to set up testing with. They don't answer to the State of Florida, nor will they answer to MOM. He will have to wait until the FBI decides they are ready to release information. I don't believe they are obligated to when they are still investigating a case. And they do have an open case unless someone has heard they have closed it. But I believe it is ongoing.

What could be worse for GZ, not only the State is looking into this but the FBI and the Justice Department. Seems to me no stone will be unturned. jmo
If the results have not been released to the investigator then I agree with you, but I have not seen any evidence other the use of past tense in his testimony. I agree that is not strong evidence that he has the results.

I did not watch CA nearly as closely. I felt (and still feel) that she was guilty. I am following this case much more closely because I am not convinced of GZs guilt.
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