GZ Case - Defense Perspective

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by suzihawk

There were many reports of this in late March. Of course he denied! :rolleyes:

Was this before or after he stepped down from the case? I know it was before he suddenly decided not to run for re-election. I'm anxious to see what the DOJ uncovers.

So. no link that directly sources Lee, Wolfinger, Serino, FBI, Special Prosecutor, anyone in LE, that says Serino wanted to arrest GZ?

BEM: Any links to those reports in late March that aren't parroting ABC's initial report?

April 2nd OS LINK
"Benjamin Crump sent a formal request to the federal agency Monday, saying he believes Wolfinger and police Chief Bill Lee Jr. met Feb. 26 and overruled a homicide investigator's recommendation that George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter.

Monday afternoon, Wolfinger said there was no meeting and that the letter was based on "outright lies". He also denounced "those spreading … irresponsible rhetoric".

<snip>
Some news agencies have reported that Sanford's lead investigator, Chris Serino, wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter that night but Wolfinger's office put a stop to it. The city of Sanford issued a statement saying that is not true.
<snip>
Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense."

From the defense perspective, this is an important admission by the lead investigator who has not stepped down, nor has he been terminated."

Bold emphasis mine.

[AJ Noiter]

Originally Posted by LambChop

The judge disclosed the fact herself and opted out by stepping down because her husband was a "talking head" for CNN. I would say she had some concerns, I don't think MOM did. Maybe she did not want her husband to have to give up his job at CNN. To the outside world it would have appeared as if he might have "inside" information even though he would not. It's a lot neater this way. jmo

Thanks for the input. I, personally, don't care if he might have "inside" information or not, but that's me.

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by vlpate

So. no link that directly sources Lee, Wolfinger, Serino, FBI, Special Prosecutor, anyone in LE, that says Serino wanted to arrest GZ?

BEM: Any links to those reports in late March that aren't parroting ABC's initial report?

April 2nd OS LINK
"Benjamin Crump sent a formal request to the federal agency Monday, saying he believes Wolfinger and police Chief Bill Lee Jr. met Feb. 26 and overruled a homicide investigator's recommendation that George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter.

Monday afternoon, Wolfinger said there was no meeting and that the letter was based on "outright lies". He also denounced "those spreading … irresponsible rhetoric".

<snip>
Some news agencies have reported that Sanford's lead investigator, Chris Serino, wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter that night but Wolfinger's office put a stop to it. The city of Sanford issued a statement saying that is not true.
<snip>
Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense."

From the defense perspective, this is an important admission by the lead investigator who has not stepped down, nor has he been terminated."

Bold emphasis mine.

Maybe at the time it was Serino's gut feeling that GZ was lying and he had no "in hand" evidence but apparently the DA has it now? So whatever Chief Lee had to say that day, given that they obviously had not done a thorough investigation, is now coming back to haunt him. We can see holes with what little we know now. Interesting about the new chief. He likes to clean house from what I understand. jmo

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by AJ Noiter

Thanks for the input. I, personally, don't care if he might have "inside" information or not, but that's me.

I don't think the Florida Bar would take too kindly if MOM were to complain. She did the right thing. Plus it opens up the possibility that somewhere right in the middle of the trial MOM may say....I want this judge to recluse herself......let's start over. I think it's an ethics matter. Some have it, some don't. jmo

[suzihawk]

Originally Posted by vlpate

So. no link that directly sources Lee, Wolfinger, Serino, FBI, Special Prosecutor, anyone in LE, that says Serino wanted to arrest GZ?

<snipped>

http://www.kltv.com/story/17270330/l...n-trayvon-case

According to ABC News, lead investigator Chris Serino wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter after interviewing him on the night he shot Trayvon Martin, 17.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...ry?id=16011674

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/17270330/l...n-trayvon-case

According to ABC News, lead investigator Chris Serino wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter after interviewing him on the night he shot Trayvon Martin, 17.


ABC News reported the lead homicide investigator, Chris Serino, recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, but the state attorney’s office felt there was not enough evidence to bring a case. He filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night Trayvon was killed, saying he did not believe Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.


Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/...#ixzz1uEiHnDxf

----------

Is that enough?

[gxm]

Originally Posted by suzihawk

<snipped>

http://www.kltv.com/story/17270330/l...n-trayvon-case

According to ABC News, lead investigator Chris Serino wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter after interviewing him on the night he shot Trayvon Martin, 17.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...ry?id=16011674

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/17270330/l...n-trayvon-case

According to ABC News, lead investigator Chris Serino wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter after interviewing him on the night he shot Trayvon Martin, 17.


ABC News reported the lead homicide investigator, Chris Serino, recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, but the state attorney’s office felt there was not enough evidence to bring a case. He filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night Trayvon was killed, saying he did not believe Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.


Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/...#ixzz1uEiHnDxf

----------

Is that enough?

I think the point is that all those references lead back to ABC News. And the ABC News sources are not identified nor are they even listed as being affiliated with LE.

IMO, the words out of Serino's mouth contradicting these reports are, at this time, more compelling than unnamed sources. Perhaps Serino will get on the stand and change his story but that remains to be seen.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

[suzihawk]

Originally Posted by gxm

I think the point is that all those references lead back to ABC News. And the ABC News sources are not identified nor are they even listed as being affiliated with LE.

IMO, the words out of Serino's mouth contradicting these reports are, at this time, more compelling than unnamed sources. Perhaps Serino will get on the stand and change his story but that remains to be seen.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

She asked for links. I provided them. I certainly don't expect her (or you) to agree with them.

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by suzihawk

She asked for links. I provided them. I certainly don't expect her (or you) to agree with them.

Maybe you missed the qualifier? It was a long post, so understandable.

BEM: Any links to those reports in late March that aren't parroting ABC's initial report?"

It's pointless to agree or disagree with something that has clearly been debunked as a lie.

Thank you for going to the trouble anyway!

[Phoenixfla]

Originally Posted by suzihawk

She asked for links. I provided them. I certainly don't expect her (or you) to agree with them.

Respectfully, I understood what vlpate was saying also. The point she/he was making is that ALL the articles go back to the ABC News report. ABC did not list ANY sources for saying that Serino wanted to press charges. They said it, everyone repeated it, but that does not necessarily make it true.

One thing I find fascinating is looking back through the initial articles and seeing the wildly inaccurate reporting in them. Its just crazy.

[pcrum12]

Originally Posted by vlpate

So. no link that directly sources Lee, Wolfinger, Serino, FBI, Special Prosecutor, anyone in LE, that says Serino wanted to arrest GZ?

BEM: Any links to those reports in late March that aren't parroting ABC's initial report?

April 2nd OS LINK
"Benjamin Crump sent a formal request to the federal agency Monday, saying he believes Wolfinger and police Chief Bill Lee Jr. met Feb. 26 and overruled a homicide investigator's recommendation that George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter.

Monday afternoon, Wolfinger said there was no meeting and that the letter was based on "outright lies". He also denounced "those spreading … irresponsible rhetoric".

<snip>
Some news agencies have reported that Sanford's lead investigator, Chris Serino, wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter that night but Wolfinger's office put a stop to it. The city of Sanford issued a statement saying that is not true.
<snip>
Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense."

From the defense perspective, this is an important admission by the lead investigator who has not stepped down, nor has he been terminated."

Bold emphasis mine.

:tyou:

[AJ Noiter]

Originally Posted by LambChop

I don't think the Florida Bar would take too kindly if MOM were to complain. She did the right thing. Plus it opens up the possibility that somewhere right in the middle of the trial MOM may say....I want this judge to recluse herself......let's start over. I think it's an ethics matter. Some have it, some don't. jmo

I can agree with that. I do believe Mr. O'Mara did ask her to recuse herself, in a quick google search I found a number of articles, this is the first.

On Monday afternoon, Zimmerman’s lawyers filed a motion asking the trial judge, Jessica Recksiedler, to remove herself from the case due to an alleged conflict of interest. But the contents of that motion are not available from the court, because of a separate judge’s decision last Thursday—the day after Zimmerman’s arrest—to seal virtually every record in the court docket.
thedailybeast.com

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by AJ Noiter

I can agree with that. I do believe Mr. O'Mara did ask her to recuse herself, in a quick google search I found a number of articles, this is the first.

http://www.wfsb.com/story/17526581/j...on-martin-case

I believe her plans were to step down because of her husband from what I remember. MOM filed the paperwork to confirm GZ did not want her as his judge. jmo

[Elley Mae]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/1...ylink=misearch

The judge asked the attorneys to file motions before an April 20 scheduled bond hearing if they wish for her to step down .

bbm
I saw it as her waiting for the request from MOM to step down. jmo

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by suzihawk

<snipped>

http://www.kltv.com/story/17270330/l...n-trayvon-case

According to ABC News, lead investigator Chris Serino wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter after interviewing him on the night he shot Trayvon Martin, 17.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...ry?id=16011674

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/17270330/l...n-trayvon-case

According to ABC News, lead investigator Chris Serino wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter after interviewing him on the night he shot Trayvon Martin, 17.


ABC News reported the lead homicide investigator, Chris Serino, recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, but the state attorney’s office felt there was not enough evidence to bring a case. He filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night Trayvon was killed, saying he did not believe Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.


Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/...#ixzz1uEiHnDxf

----------

Is that enough?

BBM

I'm going to make an assumption that this affidavit has not been made public yet (the one filed by Serino on the 26th)? My question is, why not? Once we get a doc dump, I fully expect that affidavit to be made public and if it's not, then I can't take that ABC report as factual.

[LiveLaughLuv]

http://www.flcourts18.org/presspublic.html

Arraignment video up...court date set August, 8, 2012 8:30am...just a few seconds..

Click on 5/8/2012
Arraignment video

[Sherbie]

Not sure where this should go, but Piers Morgan has Mark NeJame on now with an "exclusive" photo. It's a picture of Zimmerman's great-grandfather, who is black, and his grandmother, who is half-black and Latina. NeJame explained how he came by the photo, but I didn't really understand what he said (guessing someone in the family gave it to him or to someone else who passed it on).

Not really very newsy, but for anyone interested, I think the show re-airs at midnight ET, and I'm guessing CNN will at some point have the photo up on the website.

[ladonna]

Mark Nejames was just on Pier Morgan and produced a photo of GZ's, black Grandfather, half black grandmother, and mother. He said his position has changed on this case due to this photo.

[Reader]

Originally Posted by ladonna

Mark Nejames was just on Pier Morgan and produced a photo of GZ's, black Grandfather, half black grandmother, and mother. He said his position has changed on this case due to this photo.

I never knew what his position was before...how has it changed and why would these photos influence him?

Were they the same ones from the Reuters article?

TIA

[ladonna]

Originally Posted by Reader

I never knew what his position was before...how has it changed and why would these photos influence him?

Were they the same ones from the Reuters article?

TIA

I need to correct that it was GZ great grandfather...I believe MN's point was that it wasn't a racial issue. No, this photo was never shown before according to Mark.

[highflyer]

Originally Posted by ladonna

I need to correct that it was GZ great grandfather...I believe MN's point was that it wasn't a racial issue. No, this photo was never shown before according to Mark.

How does some old photo of someone's great grandfather change whether it was a racial issue? That makes no sense.

[vlpate]

George Zimmerman mixed race photo:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?utm_source...amiy-photo.cnn

[vlpate]

Originally Posted by highflyer

How does some old photo of someone's great grandfather change whether it was a racial issue? That makes no sense.

It's actually a picture of his mother, sitting on her black grandfather's knee. I would think it's obvious how it changes the race issue. One would hope to hear the end of TM being profiled for "walking black".

One would hope.

[norest4thewicked]

Originally Posted by vlpate

It's actually a picture of his mother, sitting on her black grandfather's knee. I would think it's obvious how it changes the race issue. One would hope to hear the end of TM being profiled for "walking black".

One would hope.

I guess that kinda throws a wrench in the idea that Zimmerman was following Trayvon because he was black.

[highflyer]

Originally Posted by vlpate

It's actually a picture of his mother, sitting on her black grandfather's knee. I would think it's obvious how it changes the race issue. One would hope to hear the end of TM being profiled for "walking black".

One would hope.

That has nothing to do with George Zimmerman's feelings about anyone. We've already read about his feelings toward Mexican people on his Myspace page.

[katydid23]

Originally Posted by highflyer

That has nothing to do with George Zimmerman's feelings about anyone. We've already read about his feelings toward Mexican people on his Myspace page.

He was talking about Mexican gangs, not Mexican people in general. He was talking about the gang bangers that pull knives on innocent passersby, and the gangbangers that mess with peoples cars, and car jack and stuff like that.