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View Poll Results: If you had to vote today
Murder in the 2nd Degree 108 51.43%
Manslaughter 38 18.10%
Not guilty (Self defense) 47 22.38%
Not guilty (SYG) 17 8.10%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:26 AM
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Guilty-Not Guilty **NO DISCUSSION-VOTE STATE YOUR REASON ONLY**

If you had to vote today, which would it be...
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:41 PM
csziggy csziggy is offline
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Murder in the 2nd Degree
GZ did not behave as a reason person would - pursuing someone he found suspicious enough to have called police on and carrying a weapon with a chambered bullet in a community with homes very close together. His stories do not match the evidence as we know it so far, indicating an awareness of guilt.

The most important evidence that makes it Murder in the 2nd Degree are the cries for help on the 911 recording. Two experts have ruled out that it was GZ screaming, plus his own stories do not match with those cries being his. To shoot someone screaming for help for forty long seconds indicates a depraved mind and would be the primary reason I would vote for the most severe charge if I were on the jury.

IMO, JMO, etc. which could change with new evidence.
  #3  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:58 PM
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I voted manslaughter because I'm not sure GZ had the necessary mens rea (intent) for murder. I believe he shot Trayvon with the intent to cause serious harm, but I don't necessarily believe he had an intention to kill him.
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  #4  
Old 05-03-2012, 01:13 PM
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I voted NG (self defense) because at this point there is no evidence to prove otherwise. IMO, there's way too much reasonable doubt right now.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:44 PM
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It's a bit premature imo. I would have to dismiss the case since I haven't seen the evidence yet...
You can't convict based on hunches.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:06 PM
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"If you had to vote today."

With the qualifier "If you had to vote today," I voted not guilty/self defense.

That's my vote based only on the preliminary facts/evidence we have at this point. However, IMO it is premature to vote on this, because there is not enough information to consider, to come to a reasonable conclusion yet.

Agree with gxm -- way too much reasonable doubt at this point. ICBW, but IMO the prosecutor overcharged. Just not seeing 2nd degree murder, no matter what.

If there is evidence proving that GZ lied about what happened, or that he acted improperly wrt the fight, or that LE illegally colluded with him to create a better defense, I would consider changing the vote to manslaughter if the facts lead that way.

As for SYG, IMO that is a possibility. However, due to the public circus and media frenzy, and the shakiness of SYG in the public opinion arena, I'll be surprised if GZ is given immunity from prosecution. The political and public pressure may end up driving toward a trial.

IMO there is much that remains to be seen.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:23 PM
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by csziggy View Post
Murder in the 2nd Degree
GZ did not behave as a reason person would - pursuing someone he found suspicious enough to have called police on and carrying a weapon with a chambered bullet in a community with homes very close together. His stories do not match the evidence as we know it so far, indicating an awareness of guilt.

The most important evidence that makes it Murder in the 2nd Degree are the cries for help on the 911 recording. Two experts have ruled out that it was GZ screaming, plus his own stories do not match with those cries being his. To shoot someone screaming for help for forty long seconds indicates a depraved mind and would be the primary reason I would vote for the most severe charge if I were on the jury.

IMO, JMO, etc. which could change with new evidence.
I'd vote 1st degree Murder if I had that option, because I think George premeditated it. He planned to kill him the moment he saw him, IMO.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:30 PM
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Based on the information I have now and, most importantly, the other SYG cases I've read, I would have to say not guilty SYG. That could easily change, though,
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2012, 03:51 PM
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"If I had to vote today", then I would have to go with manslaughter. The only real evidence I have to base a vote on is the fact that TM is dead and GZ admits he shot him. If GZ's claims of self-defense seem plausible to a judge, then he will be released on the SYG law and this case will be over. If the judge is not convinced of self-defense, GZ will go to trial and the SA will have to prove 2nd degree. Even then, I may still go with manslaughter. I don't think GZ left his home that night thinking he would shoot someone, but I do think he made a series of bad decisions that led to TM being shot dead. JMO
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:19 PM
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Experience tells me he is guilty of a lot of things, BUT I will wait for discovery from both sides and to hear and see the witness testimony. Then I will decide whether he committed voluntary manslaughter, 2nd degree murder or worse...but since he isn't charged with anything higher, I suspect, it will probably be one of the two above convictions.

But this is Florida so anything goes, IMO. I admit, given what I have learned about GZ, I am leaning toward LinasK's opinion.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2012, 04:41 PM
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Even though I think this was not a self defense case, I stand by the "Presumption of Innocence" that has been a long tradition of our criminal justice system. For that reason, only, if I had to vote today, I would vote, "not guilty"
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2012, 04:56 PM
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I voted not guilty-Self Defense. The reason I do not think SYG applies, as I do not think GZ had the OPTION of retreating.
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2012, 05:16 PM
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Could not in good conscience vote without seeing the evidence.
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2012, 05:28 PM
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From the info I've seen so far, I would vote Not Guilty. Self defense.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:02 PM
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Like others, I find it impossible to know how to vote at this point in time. I couldn't vote guilty for any defendant without even seeing the evidence against them. Maybe we can re-poll once we get discovery from each side?
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:22 PM
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I know this is a "no discussion" thread, but I think it's important to repeat that 2nd Degree Murder does not require premeditation OR an intent to kill. It merely requires a "depraved" indifference to the fact your action has a good chance of causing someone's death. Like, say, shooting a gun at close range into someone's chest. (This isn't to say such a shot is always 2nd degree; there may be mitigating factors and they, I think, will be the focus of the trial.)
  #17  
Old 05-03-2012, 06:23 PM
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If I HAD to vote now, I would vote INVOLUNTARY Manslaughter. I think he created this tragic mess by getting out of the truck and following when he could have waited a few minutes for LE to arrive.

But I think the actual shooting itself was self defense, and he shot because they were fighting over control of the gun in that last tragic minute. So I cannot vote for murder charge.
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:39 PM
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Not knowing all the evidence I'd have to error on the side of the defendant and vote not guilty.
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  #19  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:59 PM
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I voted NG (self defense) because at this point there is no evidence to prove otherwise. IMO, there's way too much reasonable doubt right now.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:18 PM
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please state your own opinion-no discussion regarding previous posts.
Name variations on any case player like "Georgie Boy" are not allowed here. That is 100% across the board.
  #21  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:57 PM
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I voted 2nd degree at this point because he killed TM, admitted to it, and I personally do not believe, (and I could be wrong because I don't have all the facts, but hey, I'm going with my gut) it was in self defense I believe he had a chance to NOT PULL the trigger
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:01 AM
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Guilty.......if it quacks, it's a duck.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:20 AM
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Guilty of Murder in the 2nd Degree - he stalked the kid down. to quote jeb bush - 'stand your ground, means, stand your ground, means stand your ground" - GZ didn't do that - he stalked him. and then killed him when the kid tried to defend himself. IMO

Last edited by news247; 05-04-2012 at 12:20 AM. Reason: added 'guilty'
  #24  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:39 AM
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Please feel free to express your opinions about the topic at hand here, but also please refrain from name-calling.

For example: it's one thing to say that you think a case player might have racial motivations for their actions when you have clear evidence to back up that supposition (i.e., clear, MSM-supported evidence). It is a whole nother thing to flat-out call/accuse someone of being a racist.

Emotions are running high in our discussion of this case, and that's ok and to be expected. But please try to assume the best about one another, and keep the discussion inside the boundaries of TOS.



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  #25  
Old 05-04-2012, 01:34 AM
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Agree with gxm -- way too much reasonable doubt at this point.SYG not guilty.
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