What evidence does the prosecution have?

[gxm]

Originally Posted by Concerned Papa

Let me tell the reason I brought this up. Of the bits and pieces of information that we have about this case, it seems to me that two things are becoming more and more apparent.

• George Zimmerman nor anyone else's story places him a single step off that "main" sidewalk at the cut through.

• The body, however, appears to have been located half a football field away from that point.

If George Zimmerman was truly "standing his ground" why wouldn't something as logical as this comment be a part of what they told LE and the rest of the world?



I'm trying to come to grips with what seems obvious to me as being an intentional omission of what actually happened. If George's version of being attacked by Trayvon, causing him to fear for his life were true, what difference would it make where he "stood his ground" UNLESS......he was actually chasing his ground?

The ONLY evidence of "walking back to his car and being attacked by Trayvon" came from the story presented by an accused murderer and/or his agents. The "picture" that came out the morning of the bond hearing proves only that whatever it actually represents wasn't shown for two months after the incident. Do you have any idea how many posts exist at this forum saying the girlfriend's statements are meaningless because her story didn't come out for THREE WEEKS?

Give me two months and I'll show you a pic of the exact same injury on the back of anyone's head AND I'll even go into the advanced properties tab and put a date on it that shows December 7, 1941.

I'm fully aware of what circumstantial evidence actually is, and IMO, the murder weapon having a mechanical failure of this nature seems to point toward a strong possibility that someone had a gun drawn out of their pants and another's hand was surrounding the failed slide mechanism in a desperate struggle for their life.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the struggle's survivor picked up a few boo boo's along the way, but whether this happened or not, the defense is going to have to face the location of that body being so far from where the accused has said it all went down.

The things that I find confusing about this whole logistics speculation:

1. Whether or not GZ strayed from the sidewalk. AFAIK, no one has ever stated that GZ never left the sidewalk. IMO, what path GZ took (whether on the sidewalk or veering onto the grass) is all speculation at this point. Further speculation is that GZ could have been walking toward a break in the buildings to cut through to his car, i.e., that he intended to leave the sidewalk and take a shortcut.

2. Where the body was found and whether the body's location fits into GZ's version of events. If GZ is standing at the body and says, pointing in one direction, TM came from that way and attacked me, then IMO GZ's location (as well as the location of TM's body) are a given. IMO, I really don't see how he could have lied about this as LE would have called him on it immediately. If they felt there was this lack of continuity then IMO the first question they'd ask would be "well, if he attacked you over there, how'd the body get over here?" I just can't believe that something as obvious as that would have been overlooked. But then, I don't believe LE intentionally bungled this case.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

[marlame]

Originally Posted by tehcloser

Zimmerman to be arraigned today in Trayvon Martin case


A brief digital recording of the arraignment will be posted on the court's website, said court spokeswoman Michelle Kennedy. New court documents may also be available.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...be-arraigned/1

UPDATE:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...aignment-today

George Zimmerman waives right to speedy trial
"...Zimmerman — charged with second degree murder in the Feb. 26 shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin — is scheduled for arraignment this afternoon, but is not expected to attend.

O'Mara waived Zimmerman's appearance at the hearing and filed a written not-guilty plea, a court administration official said. Zimmerman, O'Mara and the lead prosecutor in the case are not expected to attend arraignment."

[tehcloser]

MOM seems to want to drag this out IMO.


In a motion to continue the case, Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara explains simply that he "needs additional time to prepare." The motion also indicates that the state is not objecting to the request.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...aignment-today

[gxm]

Originally Posted by tehcloser

MOM seems to want to drag this out IMO.


In a motion to continue the case, Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara explains simply that he "needs additional time to prepare." The motion also indicates that the state is not objecting to the request.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...aignment-today

Yep. As I've posted before, if this makes it to trial, it will be another epic "battle of the chemists."

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

[Phoenixfla]

Originally Posted by tehcloser

MOM seems to want to drag this out IMO.


In a motion to continue the case, Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara explains simply that he "needs additional time to prepare." The motion also indicates that the state is not objecting to the request.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...aignment-today

I don't think it is unusual at all for a defendant in a high profile case to waive their right to a speedy trial. Thats all I took from "he needs additional time to prepare".

[tehcloser]

Originally Posted by Phoenixfla

I don't think it is unusual at all for a defendant in a high profile case to waive their right to a speedy trial. Thats all I took from "he needs additional time to prepare".

It's not unusual. He' not the first lawyer to drag his feet when he knows his case has issues he might not can over come. But I still think MOM n is dragging his feet, getting the most out of the donations, and then......BOOM, plea deal, case closed.

[Phoenixfla]

Originally Posted by tehcloser

It's not unusual. He' not the first lawter to drag his feet when he knows his case has issues he might not can over come. But I still think MOM n is dragging his feet, getting the most out of the donations, and then......BOOM, plea deal, case closed.

We will have to disagree on this. MOM is well funded to put on a good case, and that is what he intends to do (IMO).

I believe a plea is the last thing on MOMs or GZs mind.

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by Phoenixfla

I don't think it is unusual at all for a defendant in a high profile case to waive their right to a speedy trial. Thats all I took from "he needs additional time to prepare".

It looks like in Florida a speedy trial is 180 days after arrest. O'Mara could have forced the prosecution to rush their investigation in order to be ready for trial. I don't believe that there's a lot more for them to investigate so there's not much of an advantage for the defense to rush toward trial. JMO.

Zimmerman has a right to a speedy trial -- within 180 days from his April 11 arrest. Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, may decide to fast-track the case for trial, which means it could happen later this year.

In Florida, however, defense attorneys routinely waive the right to a speedy trial, which pushes it past the 180-day deadline. If O’Mara does waive the right to a speedy trial, he will probably do it in the next month or two. And that means the trial would likely be next year.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/04...erman-go-trial

[ILikeToBendPages]

Originally Posted by gxm

As GZ has (allegedly) stated, he got out of the car to to find an address. Further, according to GZ, he was on his way back to his car when TM attacked him.

Although I disagree with the supposition you have presented, even if GZ had not intended to wait for the cops, that does not equal an intent to kill TM.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Why would George need to get an address?

He patrolled that neighborhood quite a bit. I believe neighbor said he patrolled with his dog and packing heat.

I'm sure he walked his dog on more than just his street each day. I'm sure he knew all the street names and how the houses were numbered. So why would he need an address?

Especially on a street that he wasn't on? You know, so police officers could meet him at his truck.

George was making up a story of why he was still out of his truck and where he was walking when he was "attacked" from behind.

In the bond hearing George says that he didn't know how young Trayvon was, that he thought he was closer to his age. What does that have to do with him making the assumption that Trayvon was acting weird, that he was up to no good and on drugs, then follow and confront Trayvon? Would of made Trayvon less up to no good and on drugs?

[AJ Noiter]

Originally Posted by ILikeToBendPages

Why would George need to get an address?
He patrolled that neighborhood quite a bit. I believe neighbor said he patrolled with his dog and packing heat.

I'm sure he walked his dog on more than just his street each day. I'm sure he knew all the street names and how the houses were numbered. So why would he need an address?

Especially on a street that he wasn't on? You know, so police officers could meet him at his truck.

George was making up a story of why he was still out of his truck and where he was walking when he was "attacked" from behind.

In the bond hearing George says that he didn't know how young Trayvon was, that he thought he was closer to his age. What does that have to do with him making the assumption that Trayvon was acting weird, that he was up to no good and on drugs, then follow and confront Trayvon? Would of made Trayvon less up to no good and on drugs?

Police officers tend to like to know where they're going to. There have been reports that once the officers arrived in the complex it still took them a couple minutes to make it to the scene because they didn't know where they were going. Imagine if they had shown up 2 minutes earlier.

As for knowing street names/house numbers, we've discussed this and many of us have issues with addresses on a daily basis. I personally stated that I have lived here a long time (I got this house from my parents when they passed) and I can not tell you the names of the streets one block East or West of here.

Lets assume that his story about getting out to get an address is false. Does that prove murder? I find this point to be highly irrelevant. He got out of his vehicle so he could watch Mr. Martin.. ok, now what? That doesn't make him a murderer.

Mr. Zimmerman said 3 things at the bond hearing. "I'm sorry for the loss of your son.", "I did not know how old he was.", "I did not know if he was armed or not." The bold are specifically to answer questions that Mr. Martin's mother had asked and wanted answers to in the media.

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by AJ Noiter

Police officers tend to like to know where they're going to. There have been reports that once the officers arrived in the complex it still took them a couple minutes to make it to the scene because they didn't know where they were going. Imagine if they had shown up 2 minutes earlier.

As for knowing street names/house numbers, we've discussed this and many of us have issues with addresses on a daily basis. I personally stated that I have lived here a long time (I got this house from my parents when they passed) and I can not tell you the names of the streets one block East or West of here.

Lets assume that his story about getting out to get an address is false. Does that prove murder? I find this point to be highly irrelevant. He got out of his vehicle so he could watch Mr. Martin.. ok, now what? That doesn't make him a murderer.

Mr. Zimmerman said 3 things at the bond hearing. "I'm sorry for the loss of your son.", "I did not know how old he was.", "I did not know if he was armed or not." The bold are specifically to answer questions that Mr. Martin's mother had asked and wanted answers to in the media.

Officers had the exact location from the 911 calls before TM was even shot. They arrived at the scene which would be where TM body would have been. There were a number of 911 calls giving the exact location. Officer Smith reported he arrived at the scene at 7:17, removed GZ gun and placed GZ in handcuffs and waited until the other officer arrived at 7:19 before attending to TM. If you have that link that reported it took LE a couple of minutes to make it to the scene once they arrived in the complex I'd like to see it. They could have driven around the complex 5 times in two minutes. It's not that big a place. They report their location to headquarters when they get to the crime scene and it is recorded via their radio. Their reports are based on what they record. His exact time arriving at the scene would be when he called it in to tell dispatch what he found and what he needed and whether or not the area was secure for SFD to come to TM's aid.

Staying with his truck would have made it a lot easier for LE to find GZ and TM would still be alive. And why did GZ get out? TM would have been moving by the time LE got there and away from the address GZ walked all the way over to the next street to get. He could have easily driven to that location. Still TM would not have been there. If TM were headed to the back gate, as GZ stated to LE, why didn't GZ go there and wait for the patrol cars?

It makes no sense that GZ followed TM. I can't make any sense to it at all. Why go to all the trouble to get an address for a location TM would no longer be? To me it would have made more sense if GZ just circled the block. Getting out of the car makes no sense unless GZ intended to keep TM from going any further than he already was. jmo

[AJ Noiter]

Originally Posted by LambChop

Officers had the exact location from the 911 calls before TM was even shot. They arrived at the scene which would be where TM body would have been. There were a number of 911 calls giving the exact location. Officer Smith reported he arrived at the scene at 7:17, removed GZ gun and placed GZ in handcuffs and waited until the other officer arrived at 7:19 before attending to TM. If you have that link that reported it took LE a couple of minutes to make it to the scene once they arrived in the complex I'd like to see it. They could have driven around the complex 5 times in two minutes. It's not that big a place. They report their location to headquarters when they get to the crime scene and it is recorded via their radio. Their reports are based on what they record. His exact time arriving at the scene would be when he called it in to tell dispatch what he found and what he needed and whether or not the area was secure for SFD to come to TM's aid.

I remember reading it in some report, I didn't pay much attention to it but I will try to find that report.

Staying with his truck would have made it a lot easier for LE to find GZ and TM would still be alive. And why did GZ get out? TM would have been moving by the time LE got there and away from the address GZ walked all the way over to the next street to get. He could have easily driven to that location. Still TM would not have been there. If TM were headed to the back gate, as GZ stated to LE, why didn't GZ go there and wait for the patrol cars?

I'm not a mind reader. People dispute Mr. Zimmerman's words for the specific cause to call him a liar. I haven't seen such a lie so I would have to default to "so he could get an address," if those were his words. To be honest I haven't read any of his statements to the police for myself.

It makes no sense that GZ followed TM. I can't make any sense to it at all. Why go to all the trouble to get an address for a location TM would no longer be? To me it would have made more sense if GZ just circled the block. Getting out of the car makes no sense unless GZ intended to keep TM from going any further than he already was. jmo

Under this logic, it made no sense for him to watch Mr. Martin at all - from his vehicle or not. Logical or not I would've watched someone I thought was suspicious.

[BiancaS]

Originally Posted by gxm

Yep. As I've posted before, if this makes it to trial, it will be another epic "battle of the chemists."

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Not so much, IMO. In that other case, the biggest problem was the body was reduced to a skeleton and there was little forensic evidence. The crime was not even reported when it happened. On this one, although the original "investigation" may not be as complete as we would like, IMO the evidence will give us the answers.

[TorisMom003]

The state has the recorded screams from the 911 call. The state has the video tape of Zimmerman at the police station that seems to contradict his own words as to what occured that night. The state has Trayvon's autopsy report (even though we don't yet) that will either prove or disprove Zimmerman's claims for the events that night. I'd have to say that since A Corey has seen the report that she feels that it does not prove Zimmerman's claims. The state also has the non-emergancy call from Zimmerman that night that will prove his state of mind (those a-holes always get away).

MOO

[Emma Peel]

Originally Posted by Concerned Papa

IMHO, a successful prosecution will need very little else.

:yes:

[sleonardelli]

Originally Posted by LambChop

Officers had the exact location from the 911 calls before TM was even shot. They arrived at the scene which would be where TM body would have been. There were a number of 911 calls giving the exact location. Officer Smith reported he arrived at the scene at 7:17, removed GZ gun and placed GZ in handcuffs and waited until the other officer arrived at 7:19 before attending to TM. If you have that link that reported it took LE a couple of minutes to make it to the scene once they arrived in the complex I'd like to see it. They could have driven around the complex 5 times in two minutes. It's not that big a place. They report their location to headquarters when they get to the crime scene and it is recorded via their radio. Their reports are based on what they record. His exact time arriving at the scene would be when he called it in to tell dispatch what he found and what he needed and whether or not the area was secure for SFD to come to TM's aid.

Staying with his truck would have made it a lot easier for LE to find GZ and TM would still be alive. And why did GZ get out? TM would have been moving by the time LE got there and away from the address GZ walked all the way over to the next street to get. He could have easily driven to that location. Still TM would not have been there. If TM were headed to the back gate, as GZ stated to LE, why didn't GZ go there and wait for the patrol cars?

It makes no sense that GZ followed TM. I can't make any sense to it at all. Why go to all the trouble to get an address for a location TM would no longer be? To me it would have made more sense if GZ just circled the block. Getting out of the car makes no sense unless GZ intended to keep TM from going any further than he already was. jmo

IMO, he wasn't acting reasonable/rational at that time. He was apparently frustrated about the recent breakins, Frank Taffe even alluded to it: “I think any time you use a weapon, there are certain anger issues working,” Taaffe said. “I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore.” http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...s-shooter?lite

GZ apparently didn't want another a-hole to get away so why wouldn't he continue following?

[Dr.Fessel]

Another piece of evidence they have is Consciousness of Guilt I believe. From the bond hearing we learned the state does not believe Zimmerman's story lines up with the evidence. What they will probably say is he lied about the events because he knew he was guilty. It is evidence. IMO

[LambChop]

There is no evidence TM was doing anything other than walking home while he was talking to his friend who he had been on the phone with all day. Sort of obvious that talking to her was an important event for him. We also know he walked to the store to get some Skittles and ice tea to watch the game that would be starting around the time he was due home. What incentive would he have to deliberately track someone down when he didn't know who this person was and certainly did not know this person would follow him. What incentive did TM have????

What was GZ's incentive? We've discussed it numerous times, no need to repeat. Mr. Taaffe's statement about GZ's reasoning for tracking TM down can only hurt GZ. FT constant and continual appearance on media programs and GZ's lack of trying to control FT through his attorneys will also hurt him. GZ will appear exactly the way he was. Bound to take the law into his own hands without any consideration of what those consequences might be. He was reckless in his behavior and judgment and it cost a young man his life. I think the State will have no problem proving their case. jmo

[AJ Noiter]

LambChop: As per your request for a source earlier on my stating that police could have arrived 2min earlier, this was based on some work that the user named "Who" did. It's in the witness thread.

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by AJ Noiter

LambChop: As per your request for a source earlier on my stating that police could have arrived 2min earlier, this was based on some work that the user named "Who" did. It's in the witness thread.

But it's speculation not based on fact. Everything LE does is documented for their reports. LE can't arrive on the scene and describe his findings if he still riding around in his patrol car. jmo

[AJ Noiter]

Originally Posted by LambChop

But it's speculation not based on fact. Everything LE does is documented for their reports. LE can't arrive on the scene and describe his findings if he still riding around in his patrol car. jmo

I think it's safe to say that nearly everything posted here right now is speculation, but I wouldn't say it's not based on fact because the 911 calls are time stamped (or should be).

[suspicious1]

Originally Posted by TorisMom003

The state has the recorded screams from the 911 call. The state has the video tape of Zimmerman at the police station that seems to contradict his own words as to what occured that night. The state has Trayvon's autopsy report (even though we don't yet) that will either prove or disprove Zimmerman's claims for the events that night. I'd have to say that since A Corey has seen the report that she feels that it does not prove Zimmerman's claims. The state also has the non-emergancy call from Zimmerman that night that will prove his state of mind (those a-holes always get away).

MOO

ITA.

The SA most likely have the same evidence that had Serino wanting to charge GZ with manslaughter that night. And because she chose to charge him with 2nd degree murder tells me she uncovered a lot more evidence. JMO

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by AJ Noiter

I think it's safe to say that nearly everything posted here right now is speculation, but I wouldn't say it's not based on fact because the 911 calls are time stamped (or should be).

A patrol officer is not talking to 911 once he arrives on the scene. He's talking to dispatch and they are recording the information for his report, such as the time of arrival at the scene, securing the shooter, securing the scene and clearing SFD to come in and give medical attention. There were many 911 calls about the shot so one of the callers would have thought LE was coming in from the wrong direction because they were unaware of the other callers. I would believe what is on the police report is correct. jmo

[AJ Noiter]

Originally Posted by LambChop

A patrol officer is not talking to 911 once he arrives on the scene. He's talking to dispatch and they are recording the information for his report, such as the time of arrival at the scene, securing the shooter, securing the scene and clearing SFD to come in and give medical attention. There were many 911 calls about the shot so one of the callers would have thought LE was coming in from the wrong direction because they were unaware of the other callers. I would believe what is on the police report is correct. jmo

You'd have to ask Who about the specifics of how he came to the conclusion that he did, I was just using him as the source of the information. Sorry I can't debate this further with you.

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by suspicious1

ITA.

The SA most likely have the same evidence that had Serino wanting to charge GZ with manslaughter that night. And because she chose to charge him with 2nd degree murder tells me she uncovered a lot more evidence. JMO

Would you mean, as in Gilbreath's answer to what evidence there was and his last comment was something similar to...."and we have the body." TM didn't lay out in the elements for 6 months so his body will tell us a lot about what really happened. jmo