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  #101  
Old 05-20-2012, 03:57 PM
R.U.Kidding! R.U.Kidding! is offline
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Actually, I am almost afraid to post this thought....so Websleuthers, don't go all squirrelly on me--just sayin

The similarities in these cases almost make me think it could be the same guy.

Holly Bobo and Sierra LaMar anyway--
We have actually had 3 Early Morning going to school or work abductions, there was also Jennifer Kesse.

Who knows maybe even Morgan Harrington or do all the abductors know to throw out the cell phones,purses,and personal belongings of their victims.

I am just thinking out loud, but is it that "out there"--I mean these young women are not being found, so I think this guy has had a very methodical way of stalking and disposing of victims, and is so far removed from his victims, there is no common thread.
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  #102  
Old 05-20-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.U.Kidding! View Post
Actually, I am almost afraid to post this thought....so Websleuthers, don't go all squirrelly on me--just sayin

The similarities in these cases almost make me think it could be the same guy.

Holly Bobo and Sierra LaMar anyway--
We have actually had 3 Early Morning going to school or work abductions, there was also Jennifer Kesse.

Who knows maybe even Morgan Harrington or do all the abductors know to throw out the cell
phones,purses,and personal belongings of their victims.

I am just thinking out loud, but is it that "out there"--I mean these young
women are not being found, so I think this guy has had a very methodical way of stalking and
disposing of victims, and is so far removed from his victims, there is no common thread.
If they are related than "Holly's" is unique because there was an eye witness? So,are you saying.... it
might be a serial abductor...this makes it even more urgent to find Holly's abductor before he strikes
again ?





I am not trying to put words in your mouth but I just was trying to connect the dots.

Last edited by MizStery; 05-20-2012 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Edit
  #103  
Old 05-20-2012, 05:37 PM
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If they are related than "Holly's" is unique because there was an eye witness? So are you saying.... it might be a serial abductor...this makes it even more urgent to find Holly's abductor before he strikes again ?
LOL!! I am really not sure what I am thinking. It is hard for me to comprehend the similarities in these cases, and the fact there has been no sign of the victims , like they just disappeared. That there was a witness in Holly's case makes it even stranger that they literally found NO trace of her within minutes of the last sighting--How does that happen, no footprints, no tire tracks, no vehicle, no evidence of them in the woods--just POOFF!!!

.....and yes he will strike again, maybe had he been found in one of the earlier abductions, maybe if they had been able to find "sketch" from the Morgan Harrington case, The rest of these missing young women would have been safe. At least in the Morgan Harrington case they found her body and even with that I feel the VSP really messed that case up.

All I know is it would be the best news possible if when they caught this guy they could tie all of these abductions together. Think how many lives would be saved by removing this ONE monster. Who am I kidding, life just doesn't work out that way
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  #104  
Old 05-20-2012, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.U.Kidding! View Post
Actually, I am almost afraid to post this thought....so Websleuthers, don't go all squirrelly on me--just sayin

The similarities in these cases almost make me think it could be the same guy.

Holly Bobo and Sierra LaMar anyway--
We have actually had 3 Early Morning going to school or work abductions, there was also Jennifer Kesse.

Who knows maybe even Morgan Harrington or do all the abductors know to throw out the cell phones,purses,and personal belongings of their victims.

I am just thinking out loud, but is it that "out there"--I mean these young women are not being found, so I think this guy has had a very methodical way of stalking and disposing of victims, and is so far removed from his victims, there is no common thread.
It is interesting - in both cases cell phones are found, and Holly's lunch box is a similar find to SL's Juicy Couture bag... and both going to school and taken at almost the same time in the morning...
Both in out-of-the-way places, and right outside their homes...
A variation, could SL be a copy cat abduction?
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  #105  
Old 05-21-2012, 04:23 PM
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There have been so many missing teens and young women who have gone missing in this country over the years, and never found. Literally hundreds. There is no way it could be the same guy, he'd have to be 150 years old by now. The reality is, that there are way too many perps going around abducting young women or children, and way too many who get away with it for a long, long time.

As for throwing out the cell phone, what person wouldn't know to do that? Even teens seem to know that cell phones can be traced.

Most people don't realize how difficult it is to find a missing person. There are so many places they can be hidden away, so where do you look? The best chance of finding her is to try to figure out who did it. They may have narrowed down the list of suspects by now and are just waiting on more proof... or they may have no suspects whatsoever. She may end up on that long list of missing that are never found.

I'm sure there are parents out there who have died never knowing what happened to their child, sad as that is to say.
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  #106  
Old 05-21-2012, 04:28 PM
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Yes, the only thing that makes this even slightly unique in the continuing annals of young women who go missing in America is that the Bobo case began with another person observing the person in the act of disappearing at the hands of an unknown other. (Unless that story's all wrong [instead of just being hopelessly muddled] of course.)
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  #107  
Old 05-21-2012, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
There have been so many missing teens and young women who have gone missing in this country over the years, and never found. Literally hundreds. There is no way it could be the same guy, he'd have to be 150 years old by now. The reality is, that there are way too many perps going around abducting young women or children, and way too many who get away with it for a long, long time.

As for throwing out the cell phone, what person wouldn't know to do that? Even teens seem to know that cell phones can be traced.

Most people don't realize how difficult it is to find a missing person. There are so many places they can be hidden away, so where do you look? The best chance of finding her is to try to figure out who did it. They may have narrowed down the list of suspects by now and are just waiting on more proof... or they may have no suspects whatsoever. She may end up on that long list of missing that are never found.

I'm sure there are parents out there who have died never knowing what happened to their child, sad as that is to say.
Well DUH!
LOL!! Thanks TXLady, that's funny! ....but I don't think I am that dumb to think ALL missing young women have been taken be one Guy, your right he would have be REALLLLLY OLD.

I just meant some of the cases recently with similar set of circumstances.
Of course you are right in thinking they may already have a suspect and are closing in as we speak. My Post was a "what if" kinda post
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  #108  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
It is interesting - in both cases cell phones are found, and Holly's lunch box is a similar find to SL's Juicy Couture bag... and both going to school and taken at almost the same time in the morning...
Both in out-of-the-way places, and right outside their homes...
A variation, could SL be a copy cat abduction?


I think it's less of a copycat thing then a thing where similar creatures behave in similar fashions. The similarities may mean that these abductors are more similar to each other than either is to other abductors.

OldSteve, you were the first person who laid out the eerie similarities in these two cases in a cogent way that made sense to me. Perhaps this is a good time to build on your observations.

We are saying these two abductors may be similar because certain elements of their crimes were similar, and in some ways, their victims were also similar.

Noted similarities and differences:

- Holly was 20 and Sierra was 15. Holly's offender may be older than Sierra's offender, or may simply have a preference for women, and not girls.

- Both women were uniquely pretty. Further, both girls derived some confidence/fulfillment from unique gifts and talents. Holly was known in her area for her singing, and was related to an up and coming country singer. Sierra was actively involved in cheer squads. This set of facts leads me to believe that these girls were specifically targeted and not random.

- Furthering the theory that the girls were specifically targeted is that both girls lived on streets with little traffic, and both crimes occurred in the driveway area. It is unlikely, but not impossible, that someone would have happened on this area accidentally. If the girls were specifically targeted, it would seem that they were also probably watched for an indefinite period of time. How else could the perpretrator know what time they were leaving the home, and if they would be alone? Again, it could have just been happenstance, but I find that unlikely.

- In both cases the girls items were discarded within hours (or less) of the crime occurring, along the roadway. There has been speculation about whether the items were discarded along the route of escape to avoid detection, by the victims for various reasons, or by the attackers in an attempt to taunt police.


As more information comes out in Sierra's case, I hope we can ask if it could have any useful application in Holly's case. We know now that Sierra's abductor was only 6 years her senior. Perhaps because of that, it may come out that he attempted some sort of verbal trickery or coercion first, evading suspicion if Sierra viewed him more as a peer. I think there is some evidence in Holly's case to suggest that her abductor was likely a young man, possibly 20's, as Clint thought from the back he resembled Holly's boyfriend. We also know that there was verbal contact, which became argumentative, prior to Holly's disappearance, presumably under threat of force.

I really hope we know WHEN Sierra's things ended up where they did, and WHY. That could be useful when brainstorming about Holly's case. I also want to know if Sierra's alleged abductor is employed, and if people who know him noticed any changes in him over the last two months.

Some people suspected Sierra's family too. I hope these developments give some pause to those people who have not been supportive of the Bobos.
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  #109  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:59 AM
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If you look at a lot of crimes there are unintentional similarities that do not imply any connection.

Lots of people are abducted leaving or returning to their home

More women/girls are abducted by men

Abductions probably are more often than not planned rather than strictly random. Although I think even a random abduction implies planning in that you have to come up wtih the idea to snatch someone, find someone that fits the bill etc.

There is probably some sort of sexual/power/posession motive
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  #110  
Old 05-22-2012, 09:51 AM
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Would it be far out to think that with all the similarities in these cases that, in spite of finding a connection there be a perfectly reasonable link...the internet...think about it, we all know people from all over the world can talk to one another in a millisecond, we all know the evils that lurk on the web, from hacking, illegal pirating, groups in which pedophiles and such communicate and can go undetected. Now you have Facebook, you have millions of people at your fingertips, now suppose there's groups out there who have their own "forums" where they cab discuss the girls the see on Facebook...they could trade info from one end of the country to the other...they could be giving each other tips on how to do it, when to do it, ways in which to dispose of the bodies. Because its more than a coincidence that with all these cases take place and all details are similar. Without law enforcement knowing where to start as far as looking into these groups, it would be easy for the abductors to switch it up and find a new place on the web to plot. Facebook as of lately seems to be a common thread that these girls all share, and it wouldnt be hard for someone to create a sock puppet account and get live details about the whereabouts of these girls and then strike. The key to catching the bad guys would to catch one and do everything possible to dig deeper than deep into any online activity....if LE could gain that knowledge than other cases could follow suit and be solved.

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  #111  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:19 PM
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The thing is that aside from general similarities in some cases (being female and perhaps blonde) their lives, life styles, etc. seem so different that I doubt there is some common thread. Its not like X number of missing girls from the same town that went to the same school... You have older married women going through a divorce (Shelly Mook) a party girl (Lauren Spirer) wandering around downtown in the middle of the night barefoot... etc.
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  #112  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:13 PM
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Now that we sadly know the sad fate of Sierra, and a perp has been arrested, there may somethings to be learned and applied to Holly's case:

Sierra was taken by someone who saw an opportunity... fate placed him where he observed a vulnerable teen.

All of Sierra's social media activity did not play a part, nor did contact with anyone from her schools.

The perp was experienced, and this was his boldest attack.

He appears to have used a stun gun.

He is big and powerful.

He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.

He lives locally.

Okay, feel free to add to this, or correct where wrong..
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  #113  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
Now that we sadly know the sad fate of Sierra, and a perp has been arrested, there may somethings to be learned and applied to Holly's case:

Sierra was taken by someone who saw an opportunity... fate placed him where he observed a vulnerable teen.

All of Sierra's social media activity did not play a part, nor did contact with anyone from her schools.

The perp was experienced, and this was his boldest attack.

He appears to have used a stun gun.

He is big and powerful.

He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.

He lives locally.

Okay, feel free to add to this, or correct where wrong..
Great work here, Old Steve. This one's particularly chilling:
Quote:
He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.
A stun gun - maybe! Perhaps would account for Holly and perp in silhouette, kneeling, Clint said he saw.

Locally - I'd have to say, on balance, probably.

I don't see Holly as the prototypical "vulnerable teen" somehow. The risk factor at point of abduction was high. (Seems to have worked though.)

Clint's description was a shade lower than "big and powerful" - a bit stocky and maybe well put-together, though.

Not sure about experienced, but ballsy - my little theory has the abductor doing so at the command of another.

The "had an opportunity" seems to rest on whether Clint's being home was expected. (Again though, whatever - it worked.)

As TBI hasn't "gotten back to us" about social media's possible role, that's up in the air.
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  #114  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:48 PM
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Thanks wfgodot!
I see I need to correct my list...

Sierra was taken by someone who saw an opportunity... he didn't seek Sierra out, simply happened to see she walked to a get a school bus alone and waited alone for it in a remote area.

All of Sierra's social media activity did not play a part, nor did contact with anyone from her schools.

The perp was experienced, linked to attempted attacks in the past, may have succeeded (we don't yet) and this was his boldest attack.

He appears to have used a stun gun, but also knife another time.

He is powerful.

He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.

He lives locally but not close by.

LE had their eyes on him from early on but never mentioned him - hoping he would lead them to her.

LE had his DNA and identified it, but never let on.
Okay, feel free to add to this, or correct where wrong..
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  #115  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:20 PM
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Thanks wfgodot!
I see I need to correct my list...

Sierra was taken by someone who saw an opportunity... he didn't seek Sierra out, simply happened to see she walked to a get a school bus alone and waited alone for it in a remote area.

All of Sierra's social media activity did not play a part, nor did contact with anyone from her schools.

The perp was experienced, linked to attempted attacks in the past, may have succeeded (we don't yet) and this was his boldest attack.

He appears to have used a stun gun, but also knife another time.

He is powerful.

He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.

He lives locally but not close by.

LE had their eyes on him from early on but never mentioned him - hoping he would lead them to her.

LE had his DNA and identified it, but never let on.
Okay, feel free to add to this, or correct where wrong..

The one that I think really applies to Holly's case (and quite a few others) is definitely this one below:

"He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third. "

I can think of quite a few cases, like Morgan H case (t-shirt), etc. that also have this one.

So if this rule applies to Hollys case, then basically, that would mean Holly is probably not real close to where any of the evidence was found, nor near her home. This is pretty valuable information to go on, because it could rule out a lot of areas where they should not be focusing so much on.

I keep trying to go back to the very beginning and remember all the main pieces of information that were first released (before the changes). Like the original height + weight of the perp, the word dragging being used, the lack of interviews from anyone, etc. I am putting more weight on the original information.

I keep thinking if there was something that was originally released that may have been the accurate story as compared to what we heard later on, and if so, why was it changed later on. What would be the motive to change and alter stories? Was their someone that maybe they were trying to protect? Did they forgive someone for what may have happened because it may have been somewhat accidental or some argument got way out of hand? Or maybe they just got bad advice from LE? So many questions, and not many answers.

Let's assume that we find out someday exactly what happened. Then, what scenario would make all the confusion and twisted stories that followed make sense, if we assume the stories were changed on purpose?
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  #116  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:28 AM
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IMO, we'll find out in Sierra's case that the perp was indeed stalking her. He may have seen Sierra on his way to work or wherever a few times and noticed she was alone on her walks to the bus stop for school.

In Holly's case, if the perp had an obsession with Holly, would he be just as brazen to go to her house and grab her in the driveway/carport when, imo there could have been a less risky way of taking her? He would've had to have known mom and dad weren't home. He would've had to have known Clint shouldn't have been home.

Also, Holly's clothes haven't been found. Her lunchbag and cellphone were. Does that mean the perp took her somewhere else to do whatever he did to her and disposed of her with her clothes on or did they not find her clothes yet? She had flip flops.
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  #117  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:33 AM
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If the perp was stalking, it would give credence to the fact he was camouflaged...he may of spent many days in those woods watching every move, their patterns, and when he though it was safe he approached Holly

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  #118  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:40 AM
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If the perp was stalking, it would give credence to the fact he was camouflaged...he may of spent many days in those woods watching every move, their patterns, and when he though it was safe he approached Holly

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And casually walked with her into the woods in her flip flops?
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:50 AM
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The Sierra case is very sad, but it also gives us more insight. However, I'm pursuing another course here, welcome or not.

A few observations, if I may:

1) Religion. I see more makeup and provocative clothing than many “religious” young ladies would be wearing. I could be wrong. Maybe “today’s” culture, which would be somewhat at odds with the good Christian religion, sees this as fine. I freely admit, I do not know, simply an observation.

2) What young man, Holly’s brother, calls his mother at work, to ask what’s up with the voices outside their home? Like, he couldn’t go out and look? He twenty some odd years old. Wazzup with that?

3) What mother, being called at work about voices/girl friend and boy friend, with a “turkey” in the middle, tells her son to get the gun? Wazzup with that?

4) What brother, seeing his sister moving on into the woods with her boy friend thinks it will be a “while” before we see her again?

5) What mother collects donatations from wherever and says they are for her daughter’s “vacation”?

6) What bunch of intelligent people sit here and wonder what is going on? US? I guess maybe.

Something STINKS to me.

IF, it were allowed, and I understand why it isn’t, I’ll betcha there would be a lot of good ideas on this case.

MY OPINION ONLY, JUST A FEW OBSERVATIONS, IF I MAY?

Let me add, there are many triads, but triads are good, one just has to find the right combo - I did leave a few out.
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  #120  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:13 AM
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And casually walked with her into the woods in her flip flops?
Stranger things have happened. Besides, were you there? Do you know how "casual" it was? Or is it second and third hand like all the info? And what's the diff between flip flops and sneakers when faced with a man and a weapon?

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  #121  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:25 AM
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Stranger things have happened. Besides, were you there? Do you know how "casual" it was? Or is it second and third hand like all the info? And what's the diff between flip flops and sneakers when faced with a man and a weapon?

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Who wears flip flops to school? I don't know, not being from Tennessee. Maybe this is standard dress? Maybe a dress-down day since there was a test?
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:29 AM
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Stranger things have happened. Besides, were you there? Do you know how "casual" it was? Or is it second and third hand like all the info? And what's the diff between flip flops and sneakers when faced with a man and a weapon?

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No need to get snarky Her brother said they walked side by side into the woods and he only thought she was in danger after the neighbour showed up and even then, he was still convinced it was Drew and the blood was turkey so yes, I would consider his account of the events as a casual stroll into the woods with her boyfriend to look at dead turkeys.

Yes, there is a huge difference between flip flops and sneakers when faced with a man with a weapon especially if there was a struggle of some sort considering blood was found in the carport.

But of course, this case is so bizarre in itself with the perp kneeling with Holly in the carport so who knows. Maybe he let her take her lunchbag and walked slowly with her so she wouldn't lose her flipflops.
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  #123  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:36 AM
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One would be more prone to wear flip-flops inside and not to school - did Holly first encounter the perp inside then and was subsequently taken without time allowed for tying her shoes on? If so, though, why'd she have all the other stuff - cell phone, lunch "wallet," etc.?

I feel I knew more about this case the first day I read about it than I do now - not in terms of details, but just having an idea as to what took place early on.
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  #124  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:56 AM
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FWIW

Flip flops seem to be the footwear of choice for young college age women, no matter the weather. I overheard one 18 yo say they were "casual cute". Anyways, I imagine that Holly wanted to look cute walking from her car to class across campus and then would change into "appropriate" footwear for the nursing program if she had actual class that day (labs). If all they were doing was testing, maybe the footwear didn't matter.

So I think she was probably walking out to her car- not surprised in the house.
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  #125  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:13 PM
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One would be more prone to wear flip-flops inside and not to school - did Holly first encounter the perp inside then and was subsequently taken without time allowed for tying her shoes on? If so, though, why'd she have all the other stuff - cell phone, lunch "wallet," etc.?

I feel I knew more about this case the first day I read about it than I do now - not in terms of details, but just having an idea as to what took place early on.
Well if we believe the initial release by TBI it was a home invasion.
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Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CA CA - Dwight Stallings, 22 months, Sacramento County, April 2011 summer_breeze Missing but not forgotten Discussion 31 05-27-2013 08:45 AM
TN - Holly Bobo, 20 yrs old, Decatur County, 13 April 2011 MagnoliaMom Holly Bobo General Discussion Threads 103 05-21-2013 07:48 PM
FL FL - Patrick Real, 48, Jacksonville, 22 April 2011 CatFancier Missing but not forgotten Discussion 1 10-22-2012 12:11 PM


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