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  #251  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:23 PM
cityslick cityslick is offline
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Originally Posted by tehcloser View Post
I think it was just GZ family doctor that said it was "likely" broken, not a "nose" doctor. HTH.
Do you think he would put that on the report if the dr. didn't observe some damage to the nose?
  #252  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
Do you think he would put that on the report if the dr. didn't observe some damage to the nose?
No, but all I was responding to was that he was not a nose dr. only a GP. I'm sure there was some damage, I'm just not sure it got there from TM's fist.
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  #253  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
The recoil from a 9mm handgun would not cause two black eyes and a nose doctors said was likely broken. Not even "possibly" broken, but likely.

JMO
Not even if he was on his back with his gun in front of his face??? jmo
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  #254  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tehcloser View Post
No, but all I was responding to was that he was not a nose dr. only a GP. I'm sure there was some damage, I'm just not sure it got there from TM's fist.
He was bleeding from the nose that night, as evidenced from the LE report and the report of a photo taken by LE.
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  #255  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Not even if he was on his back with his gun in front of his face??? jmo
Wouldn't that have perhaps caused a laceration to the face as well?
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  #256  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
He was bleeding from the nose that night, as evidenced from the LE report and the report of a photo taken by LE.
Yes, I know, but that still is not "proof" it was from TM's fist. When we get everything released, it might show it was, and that's ok....just with what we know now it's not proof of it being from TM hitting him.
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  #257  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gxm View Post
"Martin’s parents are disputing Zimmerman’s medical report, saying he was not beaten as badly as he claims he was."

Interesting how the accusations keep getting walked back. Initially, the assertion was that GZ hadn't been beaten (because he looked too unruffled on the PD tape), now that there's proof of his injuries the new meme is that he wasn't beaten "as badly" as he claims. It reminds me of the racial slur meme, which had to be walked back to "punks."

JMO, OMO, and
I think this is a situation where the parents should just not say anything. It diminishes their credibility, because it is obvious they are looking at this from an emotionally loyal position, rather than objectively.

I understand wanting to rationalize that ones child - dead *or* alive - didn't do something *as* badly as someone is alledging. I think that's normal, and probably every parent has done it at some point.

But...

They weren't present for any of what occurred. They don't *really* know what happened. They *do* know that he had been getting in trouble at school - enough trouble to be on his third suspension in just a few months' time.

I do have to wonder if they think, deep in their hearts in a place that they don't even want to acknowledge to themselves, that it's possible that Trayvon was popping off to Zimmerman.

Since they were not present, they really shouldn't be commenting about how badly their son did or did not beat on GZ, and I would hope that their lawyer would shield them from saying anything to the media that they would later regret.
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  #258  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tehcloser View Post
I think it was just GZ family doctor that said it was "likely" broken, not a "nose" doctor. HTH.
"Nose" was a noun in that sentence. Hence the article preceding it. "A nose" doctors said was likely broken. HTH.
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  #259  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Not even if he was on his back with his gun in front of his face??? jmo
Have you fired a 9mm pistol?

At most, the rear sights may have caused a distinct laceration to the nose. Broken it? He'd have had to flung that thing into his own face. There's just no way I could see that happening.

JMO
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  #260  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
"Nose" was a noun in that sentence. Hence the article preceding it. "A nose" doctors said was likely broken. HTH.
It did help, Thank You. I'm sorry I mis-read your post.
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  #261  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
Wouldn't that have perhaps caused a laceration to the face as well?
As in a cut lip???
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  #262  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:14 PM
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As in a cut lip???
If it impacted his lip, how was there enough force transferred to the bridge of his nose to break it and cause two black eyes?
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  #263  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
Have you fired a 9mm pistol?

At most, the rear sights may have caused a distinct laceration to the nose. Broken it? He'd have had to flung that thing into his own face. There's just no way I could see that happening.

JMO
Heck no. Won't go near the darn things, not by choice anyway. I watched a video provided by one of our good posters here awhile back that showed a woman firing the gun and the action of the gun coming back towards her face. She was far enough away from the gun that it did not hit her but had the gun been closer to her body I could see it hitting her in the face. jmo
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  #264  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
As in a cut lip???
Possible, but I didn't the gun was that big, nor the recoil that big to cause a busted lip, broken nose and two black eyes. He would of had to had the gun pretty much touching his face when he shot it and even then, I don't know if you would get those kind of injuries.
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  #265  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
If it impacted his lip, how was there enough force transferred to the bridge of his nose to break it and cause two black eyes?
Ahhhhh, I don't know??? I was just asking the question. jmo
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  #266  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Heck no. Won't go near the darn things, not by choice anyway. I watched a video provided by one of our good posters here awhile back that showed a woman firing the gun and the action of the gun coming back towards her face. She was far enough away from the gun that it did not hit her but had the gun been closer to her body I could see it hitting her in the face. jmo
Yes, it could have hit him in the face. That's not out of the question at all. The force of it hitting him in the face, though... I can't honestly fathom it being nearly enough force to break a nose and cause black eyes. Maybe if someone physically took it and slammed him in the face with it... But the recoil on its own? Nah.
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  #267  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by m00c0w View Post
Yes, it could have hit him in the face. That's not out of the question at all. The force of it hitting him in the face, though... I can't honestly fathom it being nearly enough force to break a nose and cause black eyes. Maybe if someone physically took it and slammed him in the face with it... But the recoil on its own? Nah.
Right, I was thinking (not that I think this happened here) was if the gun caused the injuries, they are more akin to being pistol whipped than from firing the gun.
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  #268  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:26 PM
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I also know you don't have to have a broken nose to get two black eyes. Just getting hit in that area of your face will do it. jmo
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  #269  
Old 05-17-2012, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gxm View Post
"Martin’s parents are disputing Zimmerman’s medical report, saying he was not beaten as badly as he claims he was."

Interesting how the accusations keep getting walked back. Initially, the assertion was that GZ hadn't been beaten (because he looked too unruffled on the PD tape), now that there's proof of his injuries the new meme is that he wasn't beaten "as badly" as he claims. It reminds me of the racial slur meme, which had to be walked back to "punks."

JMO, OMO, and
so now they agree he was beaten, just not as badly???
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  #270  
Old 05-17-2012, 03:20 PM
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so now they agree he was beaten, just not as badly???
Well, I guess we can agree that GZ got his injuries while they were on the ground, or when they fell. I would not expect at the point they were on the ground that TM would not have fought back or tried to get away and in both cases GZ could have been injured. jmo
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  #271  
Old 05-17-2012, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Well, I guess we can agree that GZ got his injuries while they were on the ground, or when they fell. I would not expect at the point they were on the ground that TM would not have fought back or tried to get away and in both cases GZ could have been injured. jmo
What I find interesting is how everyone (including Crump) swore up and down that GZ had no injuries based on a low resolution police HQ video.
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  #272  
Old 05-17-2012, 03:26 PM
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???

But the new medical records also show the doctor wrote that Zimmerman "had a weapon as he is authorized to carry a firearm, and he fired at the attacker, killing him."

Sheaffer said that unrelated statement about the gun could raise questions about the report, which otherwise helps Zimmerman.



http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...njuries/nN7Dh/
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:40 PM
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???

But the new medical records also show the doctor wrote that Zimmerman "had a weapon as he is authorized to carry a firearm, and he fired at the attacker, killing him."

Sheaffer said that unrelated statement about the gun could raise questions about the report, which otherwise helps Zimmerman.



http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...njuries/nN7Dh/
If I recall from what medical professionals in this forum have said, doctors do note how injuries happened. With that being said, I don't see how the doctor writing down bits and pieces of the story would be anything out of the ordinary, but lets see what the medical professionals have to say.
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  #274  
Old 05-17-2012, 03:44 PM
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Sounds like the DR trying to testify for GZ to me........I would understand his describing what happened, but saying he is authorized to carry a weapon...and calling TM the "attacker" IDK.....smells funny to me.
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  #275  
Old 05-17-2012, 03:45 PM
AJ Noiter AJ Noiter is offline
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Heck no. Won't go near the darn things, not by choice anyway. I watched a video provided by one of our good posters here awhile back that showed a woman firing the gun and the action of the gun coming back towards her face. She was far enough away from the gun that it did not hit her but had the gun been closer to her body I could see it hitting her in the face. jmo
I believe I have seen the video you speak of, if we're speaking of the same video that was not a KelTec PF-9 (or any 9mm for that matter), it was something with much more kick.

As a side note, there is a video from a WS member demonstrating the weapon, how to load it and such, and in that video she puts the gun close to her face to show where it would need to be to hit someone in the face. I don't know where that video is as it was pointed out to me while discussing that this weapon can not be cocked manually, I'll look for it and post it if I find it.
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