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  #76  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by daisy7 View Post
Is it typical that there would be a 1 (or 2?) page narrative from a doctor's visit? Every time I go to the doc or take my boys to their pedi, the doc may write some stuff down on a chart or enter it into the computer. But, I have never seen any medical records like this narrative.
Yes-- this is quite typical. Particularly with the kind of medical documentation software used vs "hand writing records" as we did in the "old" days (lol!). Records are typically set up as templates. If you print a hard copy, all of the templated areas (even if unpopulated) may print out.

And some providers document LOTS and LOTS all the time....others are more "lean and mean" in their documentation. With the advent of dictation systems, there is more incentive to document more, rather than less, as the provider simply talks into the telephone device. I'd have to see the pages themselves in their entirety to see what kind of system may have been used, and to comment further about the depth and quality of the documentation from the provider. Do we know who he saw? Did he see the D.O., or one of his PA's?

Is the record available for review anywhere yet, or just the screen caps?
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
With two visible black eyes and a doc saying likely/possible/probable (not sure the exact wording) fracture, George would have had no reason to know that his nose was not broken. And that would be true under any circumstances. My assumption is that he didn't go for an x-ray b/c he knew or felt that it was unecessary just to confirm what he already knew. There would have been no further tx, just a big bill for the x-ray or whatever technology was used. Who needs that. I wouldn't have gone either. jmo
Where is the "probable" nose fracture even coming from? From the part of the records shown by abc, I didn't see any "probable, possible or likely" next to words "closed fracture."
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  #78  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GrandmaTo4 View Post
bbm

Funny thing, BiancaS, it appears that the "Altamonte Family Practice" does indeed have X-ray capabilities right there within the office. They have TWO X-ray techs listed as employed there.

I guess George not only did NOT want to see an ENT physician, he also apparently did NOT want his IFFY *broken nose* X-rayed right there at the DO's clinic.

Interesting, eh?

How broken do you suppose his nose really was? _

http://www.altamontefamilypractice.c...&id=2&Itemid=3
Do we know if Z had insurance? Also, I know when my nose was broken the docs told me it was obvious it was broken and there really wasn't any reason to do an X-ray as there wasn't anything they could do and that it would heal on it's own.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
After all the complains about wanting to see medical records, I can't believe some posters here complain that medical records were leaked. All of this information is supposed to be released per Florida sunshine laws.
And I want it ALL. Not just selected bits and pieces. I for one am not convinced this dr.'s report is completely favorable to GZ. I want to see everything and make my own mind up.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
Where is the "probable" nose fracture even coming from? From the part of the records shown by abc, I didn't see any "probable, possible or likely" next to words "closed fracture."
From a screen cap in the thread about George's medical records. I just went and looked and it says "likely" in the discussion section. I don't know what it says in the dx section, though.
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  #81  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tehcloser View Post
All this is, IMO.....is MOM trying to $pin. He has continued to drag his feet with the evidence being released and this is why, he wants to leak what is favorable to GZ first.
AMEN!!! This is exactly what I have thought since last night! MOM withholds the documents but leaked is:

1.) GZ medical report listing injuries.
2.) Autopsy says Trayvon showed signs of injury to knuckles.

With all of the States evidence against GZ turned over to MOM... this is all they chose to leak to media?

What info wasn't leaked was the bullet trajectory info...Hmmm!

Looks like the DE-fense has entered the SPIN ZONE! I hope we can read the documents soon...

~JMHO
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  #82  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by daisy7 View Post
Is it typical that there would be a 1 (or 2?) page narrative from a doctor's visit? Every time I go to the doc or take my boys to their pedi, the doc may write some stuff down on a chart or enter it into the computer. But, I have never seen any medical records like this narrative.
IMO, yes, especially when an injury is involved. I've always figured it was CYA, in case I don't do what they tell me to do and my condition worsens.
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  #83  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wowitsdark View Post
This is a perfect example of why words matter, and why it's a dangerous practice to let ones opinion hinge too much on a statement in a newspaper.

What you quoted said that he declined *hospitalization*. I have never once, in any other report, seen it suggested that he needed *hospitalization*.

From dictionary.com:
hospitalization, noun
the act, process, or state of being hospitalized.

Also from dictionary.com:
hospitalized: verb
to place in a hospital for medical care or observation: The doctor hospitalized grandfather as soon as she checked his heart.

Being checked out in an ER and being *hospitalized* are not the same things...
The EMS report will document that the patient "declined transport". There is no indication from what we have with the FP visit that he was considered for admission to the hospital at that point. And I can't imagine why he would have been with relatively minor injuries that can be managed as an outpatient.

I'm in agreement with those who have opined that it may have been GZs workplace who directed him to be seen and cleared before returning to work. It's entirely possible GZ himself did not independently seek the appointment because of his injuries.

But aside from that, it is what it is. He clearly had some injuries that were documented and examined by a licensed provider. And it was perfectly OK for him to see a PA in this instance. Both of the PA's listed have impeccable educational credentials-- far exceeding the minimum necessary for a PA. I really am concerned with all of the chatter that the PA (if that is who he saw) is going to be bashed because she is not a physician. I can see it coming, sadly.
I hope I'm wrong.
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  #84  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
After all the complains about wanting to see medical records, I can't believe some posters here complain that medical records were leaked. All of this information is supposed to be released per Florida sunshine laws.
It's supposed to be released in the proper manner according to the Florida Sunshine laws, which O'Mara is attempting to challenge, IMO. Not surreptitiously leaked to support Zimmerman's cause.

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Old 05-16-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by magnolia View Post
Doctors do not recommend x-ray films and blood work routinely because these tests do not alter the course of treatment.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/broken-nose
Oh I think they do when a patient comes in with an injured arm or leg. In fact, an Orthopod would likely xray everyone who came to him. It would certainly alter the course of treatment. My doctor routinely orders a CBC every three months. My point is that George Zimmerman was complaining that he "Thought" his nose was broken. Probably he was saying that it hurt. If I tell my doctor that I have a persistant abdominal pain, most likely he would order tests which would include xrays. The point is, I was not suggesting that a doctor routinely xray everyone's nose. That would be silly on my part. I was suggesting that it might have been appropriate in this case to xray the nose of a person complaining of pain in that area after some kind of physical altercation, although it might not show a break or cartilage injury but on the other hand, it might. And too, there might be the danger of a facial fracture of some sort if TM had beaten him so badly that he was in fear of death.
The fact remains that no diagnosis of a broken nose was made.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by marlame View Post
AMEN!!! This is exactly what I have thought since last night! MOM withholds the documents but leaked is:

1.) GZ medical report listing injuries.
2.) Autopsy says Trayvon showed signs of injury to knuckles.

With all of the States evidence against GZ turned over to MOM... this is all they chose to leak to media?

What info wasn't leaked was the bullet trajectory info...Hmmm!

Looks like the DE-fense has entered the SPIN ZONE! I hope we can read the documents soon...

~JMHO
Has it been confirmed that MOM is the source of the leak?
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
His employer, for work. comp. purposes, imo.
So you think he went to work after being at the police station till 3 and just killing a kid the night before and they told him he needed a dr's note to sit in the chair and do computer work? His injuries had nothing to do with work.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gxm View Post
Has it been confirmed that MOM is the source of the leak?
Deduction. There's no one else it could be
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  #89  
Old 05-16-2012, 01:01 PM
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Per abc, Zimmerman was diagnosed with a closed fracture of the nose. So I find it quite bizarre when posters start claiming that no diagnosis was made.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gxm View Post
Has it been confirmed that MOM is the source of the leak?
MOM and George both have the report and there is nothing stopping them from giving it to anyone.

The State has it but it is evidence for them so they can not legally leak it and would have no reason to. imo
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
Per abc, Zimmerman was diagnosed with a closed fracture of the nose. So I find it quite bizarre when posters start claiming that no diagnosis was made.
But......."likely".
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tehcloser View Post
But......."likely".
It's either there or it isn't. If it isn't, it wouldn't had been on the report to begin with.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:05 PM
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It will be interesting to find out if George ever gave this legal clearance to his work. imo
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by who View Post
Deduction. There's no one else it could be
MOM is the only person with access to this information?

IMO, if it is MOM, good for him. He's using Crump's own methods against him.

JMO, OMO, and
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:08 PM
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
So you think he went to work after being at the police station till 3 and just killing a kid the night before and they told him he needed a dr's note to sit in the chair and do computer work? His injuries had nothing to do with work.
This was discussed in another thread, or maybe upthread in this one (?). Suzihawk posted a quote from Oliver saying that is exactly what happened. He went to work, told them what happened and they said he needed to see a dr. before coming back. The employer would need a medical clearance to show that his injuries were not work related for work.comp. purposes. Employers do that all the time for risk managment purposes.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tehcloser View Post
IMO......no xrays because they would prove a "likely broken" nose.....wasn't.
Or just perhaps the training that they received in medical school allowed them to determine a nose is broken without any x-ray?

Personally I have never heard of getting an x-ray for a broken nose.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
It's either there or it isn't. If it isn't, it wouldn't had been on the report to begin with.
All I know is the DR said "likely broken". You can read it on this screen cap:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - George Zimmerman's injuries, per leaked reports
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
It's either there or it isn't. If it isn't, it wouldn't had been on the report to begin with.
And if it comes to trial, I am sure the doctors could get on the stand and say how he made this diagnosis.
X-rays aren't needed for every diagnosis.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Florida Native View Post
I have gone through many medical records for my job and it is not uncommon to see reports like this.

Also, don't know how all doctors do it but my pediatrician always picks up the phone and begins giving a narrative of the appointment as we are leaving. I always assumed that this was being transcribed at some point.
My ophthamologist did this too. And at the beginning of his narrative he noted that it was to be sent to my internist and neurologist so I'm pretty sure it was eventually transcribed.
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