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  #201  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
He wasn't asked if he released it. This was not a court document, it was just Georges medical report. There are no court stamps on the top of it.

If he gave it to ABC or sold it to them he could answer honestly he did not leak it because it was not a leak.

If he did release it he can say he did not "leak" it to help Zimmerman.

He can say anything he wants because ABC will never disclose who gave it to them.
bbn

I don't know Dr.Fessel. _

Didn't ABC eventually get caught with their pants down over the $200,000 payment for the exclusive rights to the Caylee photos and videos?
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  #202  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:37 PM
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Wonder why he didn't follow up with an ear, nose and throat doctor as he was advised to do? Seems to me if it were broken this is the doctor who could tell him rather than a doctor who said it was "likely" broken. That report does not mean it was actually broken but he should treat it as if it is and follow up with a specialist, which he did not do. Obviously GZ did not feel it was broken or damaged enough to follow up on his injury. It sounds, too, as if the doctor was going by whatever input GZ provided him. If GZ told the doctor he was punched in the face 3 or 4 times I would think the doctor would conclude his nose was probably broken.

I'd like to see the report from the medics myself. jmo
My son broke his nose on two occasions. Neither time was he sent to a specialist for further care. Unless it is a 'twisted' type break, or one that is distorted in some way, there is no further treatment necessary. It just needs to heal. ' No More Hockey' for awhile were our only instructions.
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  #203  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:39 PM
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Where I am from, DO's are as common as MD's. To say that they 'specialize' in osteopathy is a bit of a mischaracterization. While in the most technical sense that may be true, they tend to function much like MD's. They deliver babies, specialize in various types of surgery (orthapedic, etc.), and dx cancer, among other things.

If this was a DO he or his spouse considered to be their primary care physician - or even a Dr. one of them had seen previously for something small, I can certainly see why he'd go see someone familiar after an event such as this.

The article I referenced above states that he went in to be cleared to return to work. To me, that indicates two things. 1) He had no clue the firestorm was coming. He was just wanting to get back to his job - to his normal life; and 2) his injuries looked bad enough that he needed official proof that they would not preclude him from working.
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo
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  #204  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:41 PM
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Why are bits and pieces of information being released and not the whole medical document/s?
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  #205  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by saguaro View Post
Not if he threw the first punch. Then GZ was STANDING HIS OWN GROUND.

imo.
Tacking on 'imo' doesn't change the fact that what you wrote is incorrect as written. Being punched is not in itself justification for using lethal force under SYG. The person who uses lethal force needs to have a *reasonable* belief that his/her life is threatened or that they are going to suffer grievous harm. Considering that GZ used to be a bouncer, being punched by a slim youth should not give him a reasonable fear for his life. I can't believe how often I've had to read this misinformation, often from the same posters over and over again.
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  #206  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by detectiveconan View Post
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo
How do we know he went back to work immediately. Maybe he needed to medical report in order for him to take a few days off, and THEN go back to work?
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  #207  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by detectiveconan View Post
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo

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  #208  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by detectiveconan View Post
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo
I do not believe we know enough to make that characterization.

People react differently to tragic events. Some immediately collapse, emotionally. Some function in shock, going about their daily business, and eventually break down.

He was not a man of significant means, and he may have been paid by the hour. He may also have had a lot of work backed up and been under pressure to get through a certain amount of work in a short amount of time, at the risk of losing his job if he fell behind.

We really just can't know.

I also don't know that GZ had any clue at that point *who* he had killed. I don't believe the parents even knew he was dead yet. He may very well have been under the assumption that he had stopped a burglary that was about to happen and had killed somebody who had was responsible for his neighborhood living on eggshells and getting big dogs and concealed carry permits... in which case he might not have felt 'sympathy' for the person he had killed. Regret that he had not been able to stop him without loss of life, maybe... but not necessarily sympathy for someone he had originally suspected of being up to mischief who hid, came back around, walked up and asked him a question, and then began beating him up.

I wasn't there, obviously, so I do not know that that's what TM did. The trial will determine that. I just mean that that is GZ's contention regarding what TM did, and if it is accurate, the next day GZ may have been walking around believing he was responsible for the death of a *criminal*... as opposed to, as he is often called, "... an unarmed boy who had just bought some candy."
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  #209  
Old 05-16-2012, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by detectiveconan View Post
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo
BBM.

Someone in still in shock.

JMO, OMO, and
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  #210  
Old 05-16-2012, 08:20 PM
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If by provoked you mean hitting someone in the nose knocking him to the ground and bashing his head to the ground after they ask you a question, then yes SYG or even plain old self defense would be justified. JMO.

In the example given, by provoked, I meant threatening someone to the point of inciting a fight. Then would SYG apply?? I don't know if FL has flushed that law out in every manner possible yet. So...here we have another chance to clarify the rights of the aggressively gun-happy.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
My son broke his nose on two occasions. Neither time was he sent to a specialist for further care. Unless it is a 'twisted' type break, or one that is distorted in some way, there is no further treatment necessary. It just needs to heal. ' No More Hockey' for awhile were our only instructions.
But the doctor recommended he see one. You go to a doctor and then ignore his advice?? GZ seems to do that a lot with authority figures. And it does seem as if he got what he wanted to prove he was hurt and did not need a specialist to tell him it wasn't broken. I would think if it really bothered him he would have gone. jmo
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
But the doctor recommended he see one. You go to a doctor and then ignore his advice?? GZ seems to do that a lot with authority figures. And it does seem as if he got what he wanted to prove he was hurt and did not need a specialist to tell him it wasn't broken. I would think if it really bothered him he would have gone. jmo
As far as I can tell, there is no special treatment for a broken nose. It just has to heal. Given that, Zimmerman might have felt there is no point of going to a specialist.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Emma Peel View Post
In the example given, by provoked, I meant threatening someone to the point of inciting a fight. Then would SYG apply?? I don't know if FL has flushed that law out in every manner possible yet. So...here we have another chance to clarify the rights of the aggressively gun-happy.
Do you mean threatening them with words or a weapon? If its words I don't believe someone can assault the person saying those words. JMO.
  #214  
Old 05-16-2012, 08:48 PM
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bbn

I don't know Dr.Fessel. _

Didn't ABC eventually get caught with their pants down over the $200,000 payment for the exclusive rights to the Caylee photos and videos?
Didn't that happen in court though? Baez et al were forced to disclose the info at FCA's indigency hearing IIRC.
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  #215  
Old 05-16-2012, 08:48 PM
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Not in Texas either.

So is those bad drugs George was taking going to be his defense?

Back in the day we called them uppers and downers.
We don't know if GZ was/is taking them. Just that they were prescribed.

I have about 10 prescriptions in my medicine cabinet that I don't take.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:51 PM
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Yeah it's a shame LE didn't test him that night so we would know for sure one way or another.
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  #217  
Old 05-16-2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wowitsdark View Post
I do not believe we know enough to make that characterization.

People react differently to tragic events. Some immediately collapse, emotionally. Some function in shock, going about their daily business, and eventually break down.

He was not a man of significant means, and he may have been paid by the hour. He may also have had a lot of work backed up and been under pressure to get through a certain amount of work in a short amount of time, at the risk of losing his job if he fell behind.

We really just can't know.

I also don't know that GZ had any clue at that point *who* he had killed. I don't believe the parents even knew he was dead yet. He may very well have been under the assumption that he had stopped a burglary that was about to happen and had killed somebody who had was responsible for his neighborhood living on eggshells and getting big dogs and concealed carry permits... in which case he might not have felt 'sympathy' for the person he had killed. Regret that he had not been able to stop him without loss of life, maybe... but not necessarily sympathy for someone he had originally suspected of being up to mischief who hid, came back around, walked up and asked him a question, and then began beating him up.

I wasn't there, obviously, so I do not know that that's what TM did. The trial will determine that. I just mean that that is GZ's contention regarding what TM did, and if it is accurate, the next day GZ may have been walking around believing he was responsible for the death of a *criminal*... as opposed to, as he is often called, "... an unarmed boy who had just bought some candy."

BBM
. But Trayvon was just "an unarmed boy who had just bought candy"... He committed no crime, had no burglary tools on him. Meanwhile, there are some who suppose George stood over Trayvon after he shot him and frisked his pockets! Imagine what surprise George must have felt! He had plenty of time prior to his bond hearing to express his remorse to Trayvon's parents...
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  #218  
Old 05-16-2012, 08:52 PM
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We don't know if GZ was/is taking them. Just that they were prescribed.

I have about 10 prescriptions in my medicine cabinet that I don't take.
I would think it would be worse for him if he admitted he wasn't taking them. The doctor prescribed them for a reason, wouldn't you think???? jmo
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:55 PM
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IMO, he's calling the shots as to what gets released. Anything that makes his client look good will come out and anything that casts any doubt (or as O'Mara calls it "inflammatory evidence") will be held back. He's got this all figured out while the lottery pot grows. imo
ITA! How better to make his client look good than to finesse the info that is "leaked"? And then feel justified in splitting hairs in his response, so that he can dissemble and come out smelling like a rose. I cannot believe this was leaked and was leaked so quickly! And was not leaked until such time as the defence got the discovery.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:59 PM
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BBM
. But Trayvon was just "an unarmed boy who had just bought candy"... He committed no crime, had no burglary tools on him. Meanwhile, there are some who suppose George stood over Trayvon after he shot him and frisked his pockets! Imagine what surprise George must have felt! He had plenty of time prior to his bond hearing to express his remorse to Trayvon's parents...
BBM

I thought that GZ was told by LE and/or attorneys not to contact the Martin"s?
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  #221  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:00 PM
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He wasn't asked if he released it. This was not a court document, it was just Georges medical report. There are no court stamps on the top of it.
If he gave it to ABC or sold it to them he could answer honestly he did not leak it because it was not a leak.

If he did release it he can say he did not "leak" it to help Zimmerman.

He can say anything he wants because ABC will never disclose who gave it to them.
BBM

I said on another thread that I think the likely source of the leak is MOM.

That said,

Even when these docs are released per the Sunshine Laws, there will not be any court stamps on them. Discovery is exchanged between the parties and the only thing filed with the Court will be a Notice of Discovery. A simple, one page notice advising the Court that the parties have exchanged specific discovery docs.

I do know that in Florida the Clerks office gets copies of the discovery exchanged to release to anyone willing to pay for the copies. Also, they have a room where you can review the docs if you don't want to pay for the copies.

The only time you will ever see any of these documents officially filed with the Court will be right before entering them into evidence at a hearing or trial. Even then, they will be entered with an evidence sticker identifying them by a # for the official court transcript.
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  #222  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
BBM

I thought that GZ was told by LE and/or attorneys not to contact the Martin"s?
We don't know that. I highly doubt LE would tell him that, and since his other attorneys are off the case, we'll never know if they advised him of that or not...
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  #223  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:05 PM
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Tacking on 'imo' doesn't change the fact that what you wrote is incorrect as written. Being punched is not in itself justification for using lethal force under SYG. The person who uses lethal force needs to have a *reasonable* belief that his/her life is threatened or that they are going to suffer grievous harm. Considering that GZ used to be a bouncer, being punched by a slim youth should not give him a reasonable fear for his life. I can't believe how often I've had to read this misinformation, often from the same posters over and over again.
You make a really good point! Who of us actually believes that in a dust up someone is out to kill us??? And GZ had the gun! And Trayvon was a young kid with no gun, only fists at best. Usually and reasonably fists do not kill.

It is unreasonable, IMO, to think that Trayvon was going to kill GZ. Heck, he wasn't even a bouncer, bodyguard, secret agent, militia type, 200 lbs, versed in the art of boxing or martial arts, etc etc. Seriously, how can you fear for your life in a fist fight? From this callow kid? It makes no sense.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:12 PM
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I would think it would be worse for him if he admitted he wasn't taking them. The doctor prescribed them for a reason, wouldn't you think???? jmo
Every Dr. has a reason for prescribing every medicine.
But, that does not mean we always take them.

Like I said, I have several prescriptions that I don't take.
Just one example:
Tramadol (for fibromyalgia pain) makes me sick. I have a full prescription minus 1 pill.

There are many reasons people don't take a medicine.

Again, just because something is prescribed does not mean its taken.

The fact is we don't know if he was taking it.
That's why I responded to a post that stated GZ was taking them.


JMO
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:38 PM
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But the doctor recommended he see one. You go to a doctor and then ignore his advice?? GZ seems to do that a lot with authority figures. And it does seem as if he got what he wanted to prove he was hurt and did not need a specialist to tell him it wasn't broken. I would think if it really bothered him he would have gone. jmo
I ignore dr's advice all the time.

If it's going to cost additional $ and I do not believe that what they are suggesting is necessary - or at the very least, that I can hold off doing something they suggested to determine if I *really* need to go to the trouble - I don't jump just because a dr. suggested that I do.

More often than not, the situation resolves itself without me ever going in again.

Dr's have to suggest things to cover themselves from sue-happy people who might later complain that they didn't do enough. Doesn't mean that their referrals are always warranted.
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