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  #826  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:52 PM
westie westie is offline
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EllaN,

i choose not to repeat the things i have heard as i have tried to erase some of it from my memory as i found some of it quite disgusting and depraved. Lets just say that money does not buy manners or what most people would call acceptable behaviour and that some of this behaviour is hereditary and encouraged within certain families (as i have seen the offspring of these people behave in the same way and been privy to the 'parental advice' given to these children and have been left speechless as a result).
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  #827  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bayside View Post
When I first heard of the Bayden-Clay family I expected very successful, wealthy, influential people.

From what I see they live in a very basic home, in the starter home price range and have interests in a failing business. And with what their golden child Gerard has done now I am sure any equity in their little house will go to defending him in court.

Apparently heir house is rented and his parents own their home but have $300,000 mortgage on it (as reported by another member).
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  #828  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:52 PM
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In regards to someone 'breaking' in the past 24hrs and telling the police all they know...

Maybe this person knows what happened, but wasn't actively involved in the murder? Maybe they're now working with the police to get the perp to confess? Maybe she's wearing a wire and will meet up with the perp? There could be many reasons as to why she's not been arrested!

Also there's a book I'm currently reading and it's about a law student Anu Singh who killed her fiance Joe Cinque back in 97 in Canberra. She doped him with rohypnol and then injected him with heroin. she was arrested immediately and kept in a remand centre until her court case. BUT her best friend who was 'in the loop' and knew all of what was to happen and also went with Anu to purchase the heroin was not kept in remand and also got off scott free - from wiki - Rao was tried separately in late 1999 on charges of murder, manslaughter, attempted murder and administering a stupefying drug.[22] On 10 December Rao was found not guilty of all charges against her. Crispin J found that there was reasonable doubt that she had assisted in the attempt and rejected the prosecutor's argument that Rao had a legal duty of care to Cinque.

So yes it's a different case, but I guess it shows that those involved are not always arrested and charged immediately, or even charged at all...
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  #829  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:55 PM
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Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here, but I have been following your posts from the very beginning. Thank you to those of you who have provided some very interesting theories, insights and speculations. My biggest wish is for ABC to rest in peace and for her children to be protected from the negative outcomes that will certainly result once this case is eventually resolved.

Like many of you, I have developed somewhat of an obsession with this case. I can only put it down to also being a mother of three and feeling quite emotional for the loss of a life that seemed so promising, as well as for ABC's young children and how they must be feeling right now. Every spare moment I have, I turn to news websites, refreshing like a crazy woman, waiting impatiently for a particular "breaking news" headline, which I am sure you are all waiting for, too...

The following points are IMO only and ideas that I have developed over the last four weeks, from reading the news stories, sifting through your discussions and, admittedly, from my own intuitive thoughts:

1) GBC was involved in quite a tangled web, relating to financial and extra-marital issues, and had reached a point where he could no longer live with the pressure;

2) As a result of the intense pressure, GBC found himself wanting to ease the burden and, unfortunately, removing ABC permanently from his life was his best option;

3) Even if ABC's death was not premeditated, GBC had already planned some kind of "escape" from his, at the time, current life situation. ABC, too, would have been feeling the tides of change and, in her own way, determining her new path in life, minus GBC;

4) If ABC's death was, indeed, premeditated, GBC would have had at least one, or two, people close to him, whom he would have spoken to about his plans. IMO, this would have been his mistress, his father, or both;

5) Since the beginning, I have had very negative feelings about Senior BC. I know, I know... They're only feelings. However, I have not been able to shake these feelings of Senior BC being "in the know" and, either directly or indirectly, having involvement in ABC's death and subsequent removal/disposal of her body;

6) GBC's sister has her suspicions, but has not had the courage to fully explore these. As blood is thicker than water, GBC's sister's loyalties are with her immediate family. However, if one or two of her family members are eventually determined to have been involved in ABC's death, I suspect that GBC's sister will come clean with her suspicions and distance herself from her family;

7) In attempting to preserve the family's high profile, clean-cut image (and maybe not so well with the now infamous "Granny Pash"), Senior Mrs BC is also burying her suspicions. In saying that, Senior Mrs BC potentially knows most of the details of what happened to ABC, but wants to protect her husband's and son's reputations until such time she can no longer do this and the full force of the law takes this from her hands.

So... In summary, GBC was the main perpetrator, Senior BC assisted during the immediate aftermath, an individual close to GBC also has a level of involvement and GBC's mother and sister are both going through a period of supressing suspicion (or knowledge of the crime) and supporting their family to, in their hope, maintain their family image. IMO.

Cheers,
LP

P.S. I am a professional astrologer and tarot reader, as a side "hobby" to my real life career in psychology (crazy, huh?). I know I cannot include my ABC "readings" on here, but I do want to say this - Venus is currently retrograde. This is good news, for the investigation side of things (e.g. reviews of evidence and witness accounts should produce further, stronger leads and more substantial information), but can potentially drag the investigation out for a little longer, before we receive the answers we're after.

If my P.S. is in any way unacceptable, please feel free to snip, Mods!
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  #830  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Davita View Post
I dont know if she had life insurance or perhaps super that will pay out. She did get married to him while she was working at Flight Centre. He might have been the beneficiary and never been changed. If the murder does not look like murder, then it will pay out. Or if the LOVED one can frame a STRANGER for the murder, then the LOVED one can get the money. Just my opinion.
Someone established through some sleuthing before, that there was a $600,000 insurance on her life. Rumour was that it had been increased in the last 13 months.
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  #831  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Shelbinator View Post
Also there's a book I'm currently reading and it's about a law student Anu Singh who killed her fiance Joe Cinque back in 97 in Canberra. She doped him with rohypnol and then injected him with heroin. she was arrested immediately and kept in a remand centre until her court case. BUT her best friend who was 'in the loop' and knew all of what was to happen and also went with Anu to purchase the heroin was not kept in remand and also got off scott free - from wiki - Rao was tried separately in late 1999 on charges of murder, manslaughter, attempted murder and administering a stupefying drug.[22] On 10 December Rao was found not guilty of all charges against her. Crispin J found that there was reasonable doubt that she had assisted in the attempt and rejected the prosecutor's argument that Rao had a legal duty of care to Cinque.

So yes it's a different case, but I guess it shows that those involved are not always arrested and charged immediately, or even charged at all...
That's a GREAT book - I love Helen Garner.
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  #832  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bayside View Post
When I first heard of the Bayden-Clay family I expected very successful, wealthy, influential people.

From what I see they live in a very basic home, in the starter home price range and have interests in a failing business. And with what their golden child Gerard has done now I am sure any equity in their little house will go to defending him in court.
It's a rental
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  #833  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:58 PM
minni minni is offline
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In regards to Allison stumbling upon something of a financial nature and GBC and possible accomplice silencing her, I don't know what it could be but Im not really thinking along the lines of life insurance. I guess I am thinking more like something big..embezzlement, fraud with two people involved in it. If this was a crime of greed not passion, it would have to be a substantial amount for an accomplice or partner to be willing to commit murder or help cover it up. there would have to be something in it for them to go to this length.
Obviously if it were a crime of passion, jealousy would be enough for some women to commit murder. (Whenever I watch tv shows where the women is the killer..I always get scared by the intensity of the rage these women portray!! It completely unnverves me, so yeah, I can picture a scenario in which a mistress is involved)
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  #834  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Liadan View Post
I can just imagine how aggressively GBC would have pursued ABC. She was pretty, intelligent, accomplished and a real go getter. He was quite the opposite but obviously had a HUGE self inflated opinion about himself. I would think that GBC turned into the most chivalrous, romantic and sensitive man during their courtship and then bang whe he had hooked her the cracks in the varnish were constantly being exposed.

Its like that Julia Roberts movie 'Sleeping with the Enemy' IMHO
Are you for real? Nobody here knows this woman from a bar of soap, how can u assume so many different things about ppl you don't know?

Has it ever occurred to you that *maybe* she knew exactly what she was doing marrying him? As it is mentioned over and over, she's smart, pretty Yadda Yadda, maybe she doesn't like a man to be more successful than her! They were married years before they had kids, surely she knew what she was in for. I know a family with extremely similar dynamics to this family, 3 girls etc, facade of bein happy, renting coz they're bankrupt almost yet own $40k cars.. She's a midwife and he's a glorified computer fixer who can't even do that right without gettin sued... Oh and she is VERY happy to be the more important one, in fact the world revolves around her and he has to do what he's told with the girls and when. GBC seems very involved as is this guy I know.

Just because ABC was a "nice person" which I'm not disputing, give her some credit in that GBC could have well been her "type" of man.
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  #835  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi50 View Post
IMO Allison married way below her status. She was so talented and had so much going for her and he appears to only be a failed real estate agent.Have they ever owned a house?
Did she just desperately want children, I just can't understand why she would have settled for him.The world was her oyster.
Does anyone know what date their wedding was?
married in 1997 as previously reported in the media
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  #836  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Curiousasacat View Post
snipped! But I couldn`t help ask him his opinion about the 2 cars. He is not very interested in this kind of stuff so he really knows nothing much,he`s seen no footage and has no info.
I asked why do you think 2 cars would be involved, with a quick run down.
Ready for it- His answer was that the guy was a pussy and he chickened out and needed help. Called for help in dumping a body, he also said that the car behind would be trying to hide. Just thought I`d tell this story as to what someone with barely any info on the case would think.
This is my bet too Curiousasacat....SHE took charge. My guess is that he didn't want any other car to get between the two cars.....he was absolutely petrified and she was in control.
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  #837  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by possumheart View Post
Well these were all opportunistic crimes - but then we have also been told Allison knew her attacker (which negates that) - so maybe sexual assualt is the link ... or maybe it is just the public's reaction. I know I have found it very disturbing, as were the other cases mentioned.
I think he is referring to the publics reaction also. There is not a person I have spoken to (from Brisbane at least) that has not been deeply affected by this, or that has not discussed it at length. I lived in Noosa when Sian Kingi was killed and later Daniel went missing and the same thing occurred then...complete obsession with finding who did this, and I remember clearly the shocking murder of Anita Cobby
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  #838  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CaseClosed View Post
Someone established through some sleuthing before, that there was a $600,000 insurance on her life. Rumour was that it had been increased in the last 13 months.
I don't think $600000 is enough for pre-meditated murder, is it? I think bankruptcy, especially if you don't own a house, (nothing to lose) is a better than murder. He will probably claim "temporary insanity or some such thing".
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  #839  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Cccclllaareb View Post
I don't know about that Paul Tully with the blog.... Some of his posts seem pretty outrageous and lacking credibility to me :-|
As a Councellor I think he has a lot to lose by saying this stuff if he is wrong. I think that it is likely that he would only be writing things he had faith in. MOO
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  #840  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LillyPilly View Post

1) GBC was involved in quite a tangled web, relating to financial and extra-marital issues, and had reached a point where he could no longer live with the pressure;

2) As a result of the intense pressure, GBC found himself wanting to ease the burden and, unfortunately, removing ABC permanently from his life was his best option;

3) Even if ABC's death was not premeditated, GBC had already planned some kind of "escape" from his, at the time, current life situation. ABC, too, would have been feeling the tides of change and, in her own way, determining her new path in life, minus GBC;

4) If ABC's death was, indeed, premeditated, GBC would have had at least one, or two, people close to him, whom he would have spoken to about his plans. IMO, this would have been his mistress, his father, or both;

5) Since the beginning, I have had very negative feelings about Senior BC. I know, I know... They're only feelings. However, I have not been able to shake these feelings of Senior BC being "in the know" and, either directly or indirectly, having involvement in ABC's death and subsequent removal/disposal of her body;

6) GBC's sister has her suspicions, but has not had the courage to fully explore these. As blood is thicker than water, GBC's sister's loyalties are with her immediate family. However, if one or two of her family members are eventually determined to have been involved in ABC's death, I suspect that GBC's sister will come clean with her suspicions and distance herself from her family;

7) In attempting to preserve the family's high profile, clean-cut image (and maybe not so well with the now infamous "Granny Pash"), Senior Mrs BC is also burying her suspicions. In saying that, Senior Mrs BC potentially knows most of the details of what happened to ABC, but wants to protect her husband's and son's reputations until such time she can no longer do this and the full force of the law takes this from her hands.

So... In summary, GBC was the main perpetrator, Senior BC assisted during the immediate aftermath, an individual close to GBC also has a level of involvement and GBC's mother and sister are both going through a period of supressing suspicion (or knowledge of the crime) and supporting their family to, in their hope, maintain their family image. IMO.
Excellent post LillyPilly, pretty much agree with everything that you have you said!!!!!!
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  #841  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:04 PM
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Why do I get the feeling that the lawyer is very much aware of this?
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  #842  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by EllaN View Post
totally agree with you Blacklodge. BTW i used to get regular e-mails (every week for the last year and a bit , can't remember giving GBC my e-mail , but i obvioulsy did) from c21 about homes for sale etc. and I just noticed that they have stopped.

and Westie

Quote
Divorce, affairs, serious sexual persuasions are the 'norm' in Brookfield's elite

do tell
I know!! I may have to move to this place....
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  #843  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:09 PM
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I don't think $600000 is enough for pre-meditated murder, is it? I think bankruptcy, especially if you don't own a house, (nothing to lose) is a better than murder. He will probably claim "temporary insanity or some such thing".
Well said, but the BC clan has an image to uphold, bankruptcy does not fall within that realm.
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  #844  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LillyPilly View Post
Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here, but I have been following your posts from the very beginning. Thank you to those of you who have provided some very interesting theories, insights and speculations. My biggest wish is for ABC to rest in peace and for her children to be protected from the negative outcomes that will certainly result once this case is eventually resolved.

Like many of you, I have developed somewhat of an obsession with this case. I can only put it down to also being a mother of three and feeling quite emotional for the loss of a life that seemed so promising, as well as for ABC's young children and how they must be feeling right now. Every spare moment I have, I turn to news websites, refreshing like a crazy woman, waiting impatiently for a particular "breaking news" headline, which I am sure you are all waiting for, too...

The following points are IMO only and ideas that I have developed over the last four weeks, from reading the news stories, sifting through your discussions and, admittedly, from my own intuitive thoughts:

1) GBC was involved in quite a tangled web, relating to financial and extra-marital issues, and had reached a point where he could no longer live with the pressure;

2) As a result of the intense pressure, GBC found himself wanting to ease the burden and, unfortunately, removing ABC permanently from his life was his best option;

3) Even if ABC's death was not premeditated, GBC had already planned some kind of "escape" from his, at the time, current life situation. ABC, too, would have been feeling the tides of change and, in her own way, determining her new path in life, minus GBC;

4) If ABC's death was, indeed, premeditated, GBC would have had at least one, or two, people close to him, whom he would have spoken to about his plans. IMO, this would have been his mistress, his father, or both;

5) Since the beginning, I have had very negative feelings about Senior BC. I know, I know... They're only feelings. However, I have not been able to shake these feelings of Senior BC being "in the know" and, either directly or indirectly, having involvement in ABC's death and subsequent removal/disposal of her body;

6) GBC's sister has her suspicions, but has not had the courage to fully explore these. As blood is thicker than water, GBC's sister's loyalties are with her immediate family. However, if one or two of her family members are eventually determined to have been involved in ABC's death, I suspect that GBC's sister will come clean with her suspicions and distance herself from her family;

7) In attempting to preserve the family's high profile, clean-cut image (and maybe not so well with the now infamous "Granny Pash"), Senior Mrs BC is also burying her suspicions. In saying that, Senior Mrs BC potentially knows most of the details of what happened to ABC, but wants to protect her husband's and son's reputations until such time she can no longer do this and the full force of the law takes this from her hands.

So... In summary, GBC was the main perpetrator, Senior BC assisted during the immediate aftermath, an individual close to GBC also has a level of involvement and GBC's mother and sister are both going through a period of supressing suspicion (or knowledge of the crime) and supporting their family to, in their hope, maintain their family image. IMO.

Cheers,
LP

P.S. I am a professional astrologer and tarot reader, as a side "hobby" to my real life career in psychology (crazy, huh?). I know I cannot include my ABC "readings" on here, but I do want to say this - Venus is currently retrograde. This is good news, for the investigation side of things (e.g. reviews of evidence and witness accounts should produce further, stronger leads and more substantial information), but can potentially drag the investigation out for a little longer, before we receive the answers we're after.

If my P.S. is in any way unacceptable, please feel free to snip, Mods!

Welcome LillyPilly, that was a fantastic first post, summed up so much of what I (and probably most of us) believe to be the case. You laid it out in a logical manner that makes it very very hard to see it any other way (for me, anyway) Particularly points 1, 4 and 5 ring true with my thoughts
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  #845  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by oreily85 View Post
Are you for real? Nobody here knows this woman from a bar of soap, how can u assume so many different things about ppl you don't know?

Has it ever occurred to you that *maybe* she knew exactly what she was doing marrying him? As it is mentioned over and over, she's smart, pretty Yadda Yadda, maybe she doesn't like a man to be more successful than her! They were married years before they had kids, surely she knew what she was in for. I know a family with extremely similar dynamics to this family, 3 girls etc, facade of bein happy, renting coz they're bankrupt almost yet own $40k cars.. She's a midwife and he's a glorified computer fixer who can't even do that right without gettin sued... Oh and she is VERY happy to be the more important one, in fact the world revolves around her and he has to do what he's told with the girls and when. GBC seems very involved as is this guy I know.

Just because ABC was a "nice person" which I'm not disputing, give her some credit in that GBC could have well been her "type" of man.
Sorry, but I don't agree with you. When someone falls really in love, they don't quite see past the facade, or it takes years for them to see the real man behind that facade. Women in particular are quite blind when it comes to loving someone. They stay in the hope things are going to get better and for the children's sake. It is not easy to be a single mother of 3 little kids!! Yes, appearances may have played a part in this sad saga, but from what people who knew Allison have reported, she was devoted to her children.
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  #846  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:12 PM
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EllaN,

i choose not to repeat the things i have heard as i have tried to erase some of it from my memory as i found some of it quite disgusting and depraved. Lets just say that money does not buy manners or what most people would call acceptable behaviour and that some of this behaviour is hereditary and encouraged within certain families (as i have seen the offspring of these people behave in the same way and been privy to the 'parental advice' given to these children and have been left speechless as a result).
That seems to be the general feeling in Pulenvale too." If that's what's going behind the doors of what appeared to be a normal family how will we ever be able to sleep again".
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  #847  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:12 PM
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http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/wi...007-1lczu.html

Another life insurance case and perpetrators jailed for attempted murder...hmmmm
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  #848  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AllyG View Post
As a Councellor I think he has a lot to lose by saying this stuff if he is wrong. I think that it is likely that he would only be writing things he had faith in. MOO
I know what you mean. Still, he is just speculating like everybody else, and provides no references for his claims. I question his motives because I feel that if he really was privy to inside info somehow (which I highly doubt) why publicise it on a blog? Seems irresponsible.
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  #849  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:19 PM
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This case has taken over my life, I should be doing so many other things but can't drag myself away. Somethings got to give for either GBC or me. MOO
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  #850  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:20 PM
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Red face General info re life insurance, Wills etc.

Hi Everyone,
I have only recently come across this forum and have been madly reading threads 1 - 6 so far and feel compelled to throw in some general knowledge for the benefit of the discussions.

I live outside of Bris but have regularly travelled to Bris via Anstead, Kholo Bridge and Moggil Rd. As someone who is similarly aged as Allison, it has really hit home that no matter what appearances may be, behind closed doors may be a totally different story - no matter where we are or aren't on the socioeconomic scale.

My experience with life insurances, death claims and estate administration has shown me that even if someone nominates beneficiairies to their life policies, it is up to the Trustees of that life insurance mob to decide if they pay out to the nominated benes or pay it to the person's estate. If there is a hint of 'trouble' eg separation, divorce, competing claims etc, they generally pay to someone's estate and let the Executor (or Court depending) work out who is the ultimate beneficiary. If someone is convicted of murdering the insured person, they automatically forfeit any entitlement.

Wills. In Qld, if someone dies and has recently divorced, any entitlement their spouse would have received under that Will would read as if that spouse is deceased (unless it was specifically changed to reflect the change in their marital situation and that the person still intended the divorced spouse to benefit). Any assets held in joint names (ie in joint tenancy - like houses, joint bank a/cs etc) - dont pass into someone's estate as they pass by survivorship to the other joint party. However if things are held as 'tenants-in-common' even on an equal basis, this share is distributed in the terms of someone's Will. If someone has recently separated - it is usual to take into account if there has been a recent property settlement - particularly when you have other potential beneficiaries that may have competing claims eg infant children.

It is possible for people to be 'separated under one roof'. Centrelink often do recognise these arrangements and do examine individual situations carefully before granting entitlement to any benefit. There is also the expectation that a person will seek child support (unless there is a history of dv) from the other party. If there is no reason declared as to why the person is not seeking child support, their family tax benefit drops to the lowest rate after a short period of time. There is a lot of paperwork and pressure on people post separation if they need to rely on Centrelink.

Other guff:

I am also aware that GBC's lawyer was also in Toowoomba some years ago around the time GBC was - so assume they are school friends. While I know it is not a good look to lawyer up so quickly - I can understand why there might be a need. I agree, that legal services may have been offered to him by the legal eagles involved, given the intensity of the attention this matter is getting.

Perhaps ABC and GBC had been quietly working out their own ppty settlement over a period of time - hence rented property, mortgage over GBC's parents house (possble payout to ABC?) etc.

Lastly - I hope that GBC or other close family are not involved in this terrible matter. Those girls are going to need all sides of their family to provide stability and support in the future. However, like others, I have grave doubts.

Thank you to everyone for such informative and thought provoking discussion. People have such keen insight and analytical skills that blow my mind.
 

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