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  #126  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:03 PM
luvlife luvlife is offline
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Pitbull said the Prosecutor is clairvoyant. I love it! And the ME meets with the Prosecution instead of the defense about the slides, he had all along.......right!!!!!!! He knows he looks so bad and his $250,000.00 is on the line.
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  #127  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:05 PM
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Peliman Peliman is offline
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I just SO LOVE PITBULL!!!!!!!! He is an awesome attorney!
I have to wear sunglasses to watch because of the glare off the top of his head and the bright lights.
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  #128  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:06 PM
luvlife luvlife is offline
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I have to wear sunglasses to watch because of the glare off the top of his head and the bright lights.
I love that look personally.....tons of young guys do it all the time.......

Last edited by luvlife; 05-23-2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: wording
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  #129  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:07 PM
CathyinTexas CathyinTexas is offline
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Not heard the whole trial but I did hear the ER doctor that treated her say when he spoke to Adam about what happened, Adam told him he found her sitting on the toilet.

Yet I've heard other testimony her head was in the magazine rack. I've not reconciled this info yet.
I have given up depending on isolated statements, many times they conflict with other witness statements. Maybe what Adam meant was that he assumed she was sitting on the toilet then fell onto the magazine rack.
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  #130  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:08 PM
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Rabbit Hole he heard Jeff Ashton LOL
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  #131  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CathyinTexas View Post
I have given up depending on isolated statements, many times they conflict with other witness statements. Maybe what Adam meant was that he assumed she was sitting on the toilet then fell onto the magazine rack.
I thought that too and im unclear on when and where the other statement was made, the one where she was vomitting>?

If he really was alseep I could see him being groggy and out of it till the reality of the issue hit him, on the other hand those injuries sounded bad all layers of skin had those hemmorages and you dont bleed after death, you get hicky/hemmorages from pumping blood once the heart stops the blood starts pooling everywhere and in fact there should be a pool of blood at or near the head physics is where i thought this testimony would come in, gosh I want to see the pics! gosh darn it!
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  #132  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:13 PM
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Judge is kinda hot though...
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  #133  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:17 PM
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indicat indicat is offline
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Judge is kinda hot though...
JMO and prolly means nothing but her earrings are a bit much for court....just sayin
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  #134  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:21 PM
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JMO and prolly means nothing but her earrings are a bit much for court....just sayin
me thinks that too LOL and wonders how old she is, she looks very young for a judge, in Texas you have to be a attorney for years i think before you can even run for judge, not know about Florida
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  #135  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:40 PM
CathyinTexas CathyinTexas is offline
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I thought that too and im unclear on when and where the other statement was made, the one where she was vomitting>?

If he really was alseep I could see him being groggy and out of it till the reality of the issue hit him, on the other hand those injuries sounded bad all layers of skin had those hemmorages and you dont bleed after death, you get hicky/hemmorages from pumping blood once the heart stops the blood starts pooling everywhere and in fact there should be a pool of blood at or near the head physics is where i thought this testimony would come in, gosh I want to see the pics! gosh darn it!
The ME stated as fact that she was alive at the hospital and died at the hospital.
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  #136  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:43 PM
Cappuccino Cappuccino is offline
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Originally Posted by CathyinTexas View Post
The ME stated as fact that she was alive at the hospital and died at the hospital.
Wait...what? So this guy's supposed to have half murdered his wife, then rang 911?

This case is ridiculous already and the defense hasn't even started its side of the story yet.
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  #137  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CathyinTexas View Post
The ME stated as fact that she was alive at the hospital and died at the hospital.
I think he said that's the official time of death because a doctor pronounced her but she had no vital signs when paramedics arrived and none at the hospital.
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  #138  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:10 PM
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me thinks that too LOL and wonders how old she is, she looks. very young for a judge, in Texas you have to be a attorney for years i think before you can even run for judge, not know about Florida
She's not commanding any respect at all, I would like to see her take some control over this courtroom and stop playing with her hair. It's very off putting.
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  #139  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:15 PM
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In any other case if the defense attorney accused the ME of fabricating evidence I would have been appauled however with this case and the way its been handled, idk, I'm not so offended.
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  #140  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:18 PM
Soulmagent Soulmagent is offline
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Originally Posted by CathyinTexas View Post
Something that hasn't been discussed too much is the orange foam that came out of her mouth and the orange "stuff" on her pillow and the floor. That may be explored more in the defense case. I can't see why or how this husband could have constructed all these oddities and why would he? It is unbelievable so that may be why he will win.
I want to research the orange foam after the case.

I didnt know it came out of her mouth but would make for a theory. Was it in her lungs as well?
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  #141  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:45 PM
CathyinTexas CathyinTexas is offline
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I want to research the orange foam after the case.

I didnt know it came out of her mouth but would make for a theory. Was it in her lungs as well?
I thought I heard that earlier in the trial, so someone please correct me if I am wrong. I assumed that was the fluid that was on the floor, and there apparently was foam in her mouth according to Adam.
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  #142  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:47 PM
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I want to research the orange foam after the case.

I didnt know it came out of her mouth but would make for a theory. Was it in her lungs as well?
I saw Chris Farleys death scene photo. It was horrible . I would like to know if that foam comes out everytime someone dies?
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  #143  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:55 PM
Jackson44 Jackson44 is offline
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Just thought I would throw this out here to kind of get what the prosecution has done before they close. From listening to the testimony so far this is some of what I have learned. I admit I can be completely off the wall, but I am thinking this is what I have heard. Please feel free to correct any of my mistakes.

There were deep muscle injuries inside her neck from the front of her neck to the spine and too deep to be caused by trying to insert the breathing tube. The bruising caused bleeding. The pinkish color froth on the floor and wherever was the mixture of the blood and liquid that came up from her throat. Her throat had to be suctioned in the ER because of the blood build up in it before the breathing tube could be placed in her throat.

The only damage to her heart was a 3mm scar if not that size a very teeny tiny scar in her heart between the chambers. This was not a new scar. Also there was a little patch of cells (can't remember their name) that can be found in all hearts just like the little scar. The little cells are like an army going on patrol looking for infection.

The defense wants to say there was scarring all over the heart which would be consistent with heart damage and congestive heart failure, but there was really no evidence of it according to the ME. Her heart was normal except for the little scar and little patch of cells.

If she fell forward from the toilet and hit her neck on the magazine basket the pressure of the contact from the basket to her throat would not be great enough to cause death. Also her forehead or nose would hit the basket before her throat. There probably would be some facial injury from the fall, but there wasn't any.

There are marks on the outside of her neck front and I think on the back of neck. One picture I saw they looked like claw marks on the front of her neck.

Now if there is no heart damage and she has no illness, but does have injuries that are consistent with strangulation how did she die? There was just her, her husband and two children at home. Do we know what goes on behind close doors?
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  #144  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:02 PM
Cappuccino Cappuccino is offline
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I think it really does come down to the forensic pathology evidence - was she strangled, or was there a natural explanation for her death? The defense has damaged the credibility of the State's ME already, and they have Baden lined up as their witness.

If the defense can't cast doubt on the strangulation theory then there is really only one person who could have done it. If they can offer evidence that her injuries are all consistent with a natural death I think the jury will have to acquit.
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  #145  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:27 PM
Soulmagent Soulmagent is offline
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Originally Posted by Jackson44 View Post
Just thought I would throw this out here to kind of get what the prosecution has done before they close. From listening to the testimony so far this is some of what I have learned. I admit I can be completely off the wall, but I am thinking this is what I have heard. Please feel free to correct any of my mistakes.

There were deep muscle injuries inside her neck from the front of her neck to the spine and too deep to be caused by trying to insert the breathing tube. The bruising caused bleeding. The pinkish color froth on the floor and wherever was the mixture of the blood and liquid that came up from her throat. Her throat had to be suctioned in the ER because of the blood build up in it before the breathing tube could be placed in her throat.

The only damage to her heart was a 3mm scar if not that size a very teeny tiny scar in her heart between the chambers. This was not a new scar. Also there was a little patch of cells (can't remember their name) that can be found in all hearts just like the little scar. The little cells are like an army going on patrol looking for infection.

The defense wants to say there was scarring all over the heart which would be consistent with heart damage and congestive heart failure, but there was really no evidence of it according to the ME. Her heart was normal except for the little scar and little patch of cells.

If she fell forward from the toilet and hit her neck on the magazine basket the pressure of the contact from the basket to her throat would not be great enough to cause death. Also her forehead or nose would hit the basket before her throat. There probably would be some facial injury from the fall, but there wasn't any.

There are marks on the outside of her neck front and I think on the back of neck. One picture I saw they looked like claw marks on the front of her neck.

Now if there is no heart damage and she has no illness, but does have injuries that are consistent with strangulation how did she die? There was just her, her husband and two children at home. Do we know what goes on behind close doors?
I just dont believe it is impossible for the presure not to cause death from falling.

I pointed out an example of something I witnesses in which the woman really could have died.

I also saw a woman fall and break 9 bones in her face from a standing position , people who have seizures often die from falls and it takes very little constant pressure to cause death. See the choking game for examples of this.

I think the prosecutions unwillingsness to consider the reality about the amount of pressure needed for death is harming them. They needed to show the amount of force needed for the injuries and they are not seeming to do that yet.

I know the jury must be thinking that most certainly could cut off someones air supply. They might not be thinking it caused those injuries . That would make them question why the prosecution believes this so strongly or that the prosecution is misleading in its case. JMO.
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  #146  
Old 05-23-2012, 06:43 PM
CathyinTexas CathyinTexas is offline
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I just dont believe it is impossible for the presure not to cause death from falling.

I pointed out an example of something I witnesses in which the woman really could have died.

I also saw a woman fall and break 9 bones in her face from a standing position , people who have seizures often die from falls and it takes very little constant pressure to cause death. See the choking game for examples of this.

I think the prosecutions unwillingsness to consider the reality about the amount of pressure needed for death is harming them. They needed to show the amount of force needed for the injuries and they are not seeming to do that yet.

I know the jury must be thinking that most certainly could cut off someones air supply. They might not be thinking it caused those injuries . That would make them question why the prosecution believes this so strongly or that the prosecution is misleading in its case. JMO.
The forensic testimony did not address the brain, did it? Was the brain examined for a possible seizure? I think if she had a seizure or was seizing when she fell onto the magazine rack, the contortions and odd movements that a seizure can cause could have caused her neck to continually hit the magazine rack edge. Is it possible that if she had a heart attack and was losing consciousness that she tried to lift her head and it fell back onto the rack, and if she tried to lift her body, could the same thing occur and might she fall onto her shoulder. It sounds strange but the whole thing is so odd.
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  #147  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:55 PM
Soulmagent Soulmagent is offline
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The forensic testimony did not address the brain, did it? Was the brain examined for a possible seizure? I think if she had a seizure or was seizing when she fell onto the magazine rack, the contortions and odd movements that a seizure can cause could have caused her neck to continually hit the magazine rack edge. Is it possible that if she had a heart attack and was losing consciousness that she tried to lift her head and it fell back onto the rack, and if she tried to lift her body, could the same thing occur and might she fall onto her shoulder. It sounds strange but the whole thing is so odd.
Even if the brian was examined for a possible seizure it might not show in the examination. Medical professionals are often at a loss on being able to tell if one has had a seizure and monitoring in suggested in suspected cases.

The seizure movement you describe are not accurate to most cases and there are different types of seizures. some people may only ever have one seizure during their life time while others are plagued with reoccuring unpredictable seizures that prevent them enjoying the quailty of life most people take for granted.
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  #148  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:22 PM
luvlife luvlife is offline
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Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
Even if the brian was examined for a possible seizure it might not show in the examination. Medical professionals are often at a loss on being able to tell if one has had a seizure and monitoring in suggested in suspected cases.

The seizure movement you describe are not accurate to most cases and there are different types of seizures. some people may only ever have one seizure during their life time while others are plagued with reoccuring unpredictable seizures that prevent them enjoying the quailty of life most people take for granted.
I have a grand moll seizure about once a year and it started when I was just out of college and the neurologist can't detect exactly why, unless I was injured young. I wasn't.........But I do show lesions on my brain in the MRI's, so they give it a generic name adult onset epilepsy. WHATEVER! But I have had similar accidents happen to me, it just didn't take my life........Thank God I am usually around someone when it happens.........
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  #149  
Old 05-24-2012, 12:17 AM
kinetico55 kinetico55 is offline
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Hello,
This is my first post on websleuths. I have been actively watching the Adam Kaufman trial and am respectfully in quite a different view from many on here.
In my eyes, he is clearly guilty. I do not know how one can explain the deep deep bruising on the front, back, and sides of the neck. When combined with Mr. Kaufmans conflicting stories, I simply cannot see reasonable doubt.
I do realize that the police work was far from perfect. That being said, when one obtains top tier lawyers, their will always be a plethora of things to attack. Their are 1000 different elements to a crime scene, an investigation, reports, medical examiner testing, etc, etc, etc, and great lawyers will always hone in on and empasize the mistakes ( or things that appear that could be mistakes). I can assure you that no investigation is perfect from start to finish.
Although Mr. Millian is an excellent attorney, aren't people seeing alot of this as bluster, talking louder than the prosecution, and just picking on things that aren't even really there?? Or is it only I that is seeing this?? Although the defense team is clearly the more experienced/ dynamic attorneys, is this a reason to acquit a man that seems pretty clearly guilty? I dont know, just my 2 cents.
I would appreciate others thoughts on whether it appears Mr. Millian is grasping at straws that aren't there and is just trying to create a doubt by great lawyering?
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  #150  
Old 05-24-2012, 12:20 AM
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ohiogirl ohiogirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Cappuccino View Post
I think it really does come down to the forensic pathology evidence - was she strangled, or was there a natural explanation for her death? The defense has damaged the credibility of the State's ME already, and they have Baden lined up as their witness.

If the defense can't cast doubt on the strangulation theory then there is really only one person who could have done it. If they can offer evidence that her injuries are all consistent with a natural death I think the jury will have to acquit.
I only wish they had somone other than Baden to testify against the ME. He proved to me that he will testify to anything in the Phil Spector trial, thus calling his testimony into question. He picked the wrong high profile trial to perjure himself, imo. Makes me question anything he has to say.
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