Trayvon Martin's Autopsy

[LiveLaughLuv]

Originally Posted by cityslick

They can't prove who instigated it. Gilbreath said this during the bond hearing.

Originally Posted by cityslick
What if TM was leaning over GZ already as the shot rang out?

Someone needs to put two people with the exact same heights and then have the one that was GZ's height point outward to see where a gun would come to on TM's body.

Multiple witnesses report seeing two people on the ground before the shot rang out.

I did comment to the above quote...not the who instigated it...but since you brought that up....

In reality, GZ did instigate it since he didn't stop his following of TM...he was in hot pursuit and I feel he now hunted TM down....he should have stayed in his vehicle...so, in essence, it was GZ who instigated this confrontation...

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by cityslick

They can't prove who instigated it. Gilbreath said this during the bond hearing.

Can't prove it with 100% certainty I'm sure. But if GZ's statements don't match up a jury gets to decide whether it was more likely GZ initiated it or TM and what happened right before TM was shot. Was he trying to get away and was it that GZ was trying to keep him from getting away? jmo

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv

I did comment to the above quote...not the who instigated it...but since you brought that up....

In reality, GZ did instigate it since he didn't stop his following of TM...he was in hot pursuit and I feel he now hunted TM down....he should have stayed in his vehicle...so, in essence, it was GZ who instigated this confrontation...

GZ didn't break the law by stepping out of his vehicle. He's certainly not guilty of 2nd degree murder by seeing where TM was.

[Sun48shine]

Originally Posted by cityslick

BBM

And once again, not everyone who is facing a charge is guilty of said charge, nor does that mean there is enough evidence to fulfill that charge in the eyes of a jury.

Do you think he was on the ground, then got up and shot him while TM was on the ground? That would even be more unlikely for a straight shot.

How did TM end up face down and straight? Sounds more like they both were standing up when TM got shot.

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi RANCH,

Sorry I miscalculated. Lol. mr wm is 'strong as an ox' which is just a figure of speech,
and the reason I know should be self explanatory. I was making an observation on the similarities between GZ and mr. wm's body types. I still can't imagine someone 4 inches taller yet 42 lbs lighter putting a whipping on mr wm for very long because of the weight difference. I am not disputing that TM was on top at some point. I just don't think it was for very long. GZ appears to be in good physical shape.

Hope this helps clarify.:)

moo

wm

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by LambChop

Can't prove it with 100% certainty I'm sure. But if GZ's statements don't match up a jury gets to decide whether it was more likely GZ initiated it or TM and what happened right before TM was shot. Was he trying to get away and was it that GZ was trying to keep him from getting away? jmo

Depends on the witnesses as well. If two people who saw the scuffle, one says for sure it's GZ and another says the one 'with the red jacket', well that's going to factor in as well.

I can tell you what we don't have.

We don't have any witness or evidence that shows that GZ threatened TM in any way.

Any witness or evidence that shows that GZ held TM down for any length of time.

Any witness or evidence that shows that GZ has his gun out and drawn before confronting TM.

Any witness or evidence that shows that GZ cut TM off at some point and cornered him.

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by Sun48shine

How did TM end up face down and straight? Sounds more like they both were standing up when TM got shot.

TM couldn't fall facedown, with GZ getting out of the way?

Do you know that if TM was standing and was shot, the odds are the impact of the shot, plus when a body loses consciousness is to fall backward, not forward?

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by cityslick

TM couldn't fall facedown, with GZ getting out of the way?

Do you know that if TM was standing and was shot, the odds are the impact of the shot, plus when a body loses consciousness is to fall backward, not forward?

Not if someone were holding onto them while they were shooting. jmo

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by cityslick

GZ didn't break the law by stepping out of his vehicle. He's certainly not guilty of 2nd degree murder by seeing where TM was.

But he was charged, none the less. CS even put it in his report. Had GZ done as he was instructed this crime would not have happened. I imagine that will be something he will testify to in court. jmo

[Isabelle]

Originally Posted by cityslick

TM couldn't fall facedown, with GZ getting out of the way?

Do you know that if TM was standing and was shot, the odds are the impact of the shot, plus when a body loses consciousness is to fall backward, not forward?

When a person loses consciousness or succumbs to sudden death they do not necessarily fall backward. The position of the head and upper body would have a lot of influence on the direction of the fall. If TM were leaning forward trying to reach out and push the gun away, he would have fallen forward. If TM were standing on land that was sloped downward in front of him he would have been under the effects of gravity and would had fallen forward, vice versa if the slope was behind him.

[LiveLaughLuv]

Originally Posted by cityslick

GZ didn't break the law by stepping out of his vehicle. He's certainly not guilty of 2nd degree murder by seeing where TM was.

Originally Posted by cityslick

Depends on the witnesses as well. If two people who saw the scuffle, one says for sure it's GZ and another says the one 'with the red jacket', well that's going to factor in as well.

I can tell you what we don't have.

We don't have any witness or evidence that shows that GZ threatened TM in any way.

Any witness or evidence that shows that GZ held TM down for any length of time.

Any witness or evidence that shows that GZ has his gun out and drawn before confronting TM.

Any witness or evidence that shows that GZ cut TM off at some point and cornered him.

Originally Posted by cityslick

TM couldn't fall facedown, with GZ getting out of the way?

Do you know that if TM was standing and was shot, the odds are the impact of the shot, plus when a body loses consciousness is to fall backward, not forward?

He didn't listen to the dispatcher from the NEN when he was asked if he was following and told, we don't need you to do that! GZ left the security of his vehicle. He should have stayed back in his vehicle and let LE handle it..but it's all in the mentality...GZ was adamant and determined to not let another a&&hole get away. He already deemed TM as suspicous on drugs or something when in fact, he had no idea, just said things so that LE would respond quicker...I also believe GZ has impulse control issues along with other issues I won't get into but, it's all on GZ who didn't let up in his pursuit of a lone teen who was NOT in the commission of a felony, not doing anything illegal..so, GZ must know stand up to his actions that caused the death of a 17 y/o...and as it stands so far, GZ story is unravelling with each document shown..

I also believe GZ might have made this wrestling happen by grabbing hold of TM and tumbling about..making it appear as if....I don't trust a word out of his mouth...

You are not a prosecutor and don't understand the statutes as they do..so to say that he's not guilty of 2nd degree murder is all in the mind of who's stating it..I believe the state would not have brought those charges if they couldn't prove them...to say that is absurd you are not a prosecutor are you?

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by LambChop

Not if someone were holding onto them while they were shooting. jmo

So they were fighting standing up? And this is after they had been on the ground (because two witnesses saw them on the ground)?

The whole fight lasted all of 45 seconds. That's a lot going on in a fight that didn't last long.

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv

He didn't listen to the dispatcher from the NEN when he was asked if he was following and told, we don't need you to do that! GZ left the security of his vehicle. He should have stayed back in his vehicle and let LE handle it..but it's all in the mentality...GZ was adamant and determined to not let another a&&hole get away. He already deemed TM as suspicous on drugs or something when in fact, he had no idea, just said things so that LE would respond quicker...I also believe GZ has impulse control issues along with other issues I won't get into but, it's all on GZ who didn't let up in his pursuit of a lone teen who was NOT in the commission of a felony, not doing anything illegal..so, GZ must know stand up to his actions that caused the death of a 17 y/o...and as it stands so far, GZ story is unravelling with each document shown..

I also believe GZ might have made this wrestling happen by grabbing hold of TM and tumbling about..making it appear as if....I don't trust a word out of his mouth...

You are not a prosecutor and don't understand the statutes as they do..so to say that he's not guilty of 2nd degree murder is all in the mind of who's stating it..I believe the state would not have brought those charges if they couldn't prove them...to say that is absurd you are not a prosecutor are you?

BBM

I disagree, the documents are actually enforcing his story. I'm not the only one who thinks this as well seeing as even former prosecutors are having a hard time seeing how AC is going to get a 2nd murder charge to stick.

I'm not a prosecutor, but other prosecutors seem to think so.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...malice-636815/

The new information "tends to support what Zimmerman is saying, that he was being assaulted," former Miami-Dade prosecutor David Waksman said.

[Sun48shine]

Originally Posted by RANCH

71 inches is 5' 11" not 5' 9". Who is strong as an ox and how do you know that?

He threw people out of parties according to one of his former co-workers that called him Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. It would be good if that former co-worker would identify himself and the woman whom the co-worker said was GZ threw on the ground.

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by Sun48shine

He threw people out of parties according to one of his former co-workers that called him Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. It would be good if that former co-worker would identify himself and the woman whom the co-worker said was GZ threw on the ground.

That was also 7 years ago.

[Sun48shine]

Originally Posted by cityslick

So they were fighting standing up? And this is after they had been on the ground (because two witnesses saw them on the ground)?

The whole fight lasted all of 45 seconds. That's a lot going on in a fight that didn't last long.

At first witnesses were saying it was too dark to see what was going on.

[LiveLaughLuv]

Originally Posted by cityslick

BBM

I disagree, the documents are actually enforcing his story. I'm not the only one who thinks this as well seeing as even former prosecutors are having a hard time seeing how AC is going to get a 2nd murder charge to stick.

I'm not a prosecutor, but other prosecutors seem to think so.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...malice-636815/

The new information "tends to support what Zimmerman is saying, that he was being assaulted," former Miami-Dade prosecutor David Waksman said.

He/They has no idea what evidence the SP had in order to charge GZ as they did...I don't listen to much of that nonsense for they can't know for sure...only stateing conspiracy theories...controversy sells...

[Sun48shine]

Originally Posted by cityslick

That was also 7 years ago.

That still doesn't change a person's true character.

[LambChop]

Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv

He/They has no idea what evidence the SP had in order to charge GZ as they did...I don't listen to much of that nonsense for they can't know for sure...only stateing conspiracy theories...controversy sells...

Plus as discovery comes out these TH's tend to change their tunes which shows they are being truthful with what information they have at any given point. jmo

[Sun48shine]

Originally Posted by cityslick

TM couldn't fall facedown, with GZ getting out of the way?

Do you know that if TM was standing and was shot, the odds are the impact of the shot, plus when a body loses consciousness is to fall backward, not forward?

Why was he found face down and straight?

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv

He/They has no idea what evidence the SP had in order to charge GZ as they did...I don't listen to much of that nonsense for they can't know for sure...only stateing conspiracy theories...controversy sells...

You think there is more evidence that hasn't been provided in the discovery?

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by Sun48shine

That still doesn't change a person's true character.

Were you the same person at 28 as you were at 21? I know I wasn't but then again may I'm weird.

[suzihawk]

Originally Posted by cityslick

BBM

I disagree, the documents are actually enforcing his story. I'm not the only one who thinks this as well seeing as even former prosecutors are having a hard time seeing how AC is going to get a 2nd murder charge to stick.

I'm not a prosecutor, but other prosecutors seem to think so.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...malice-636815/

The new information "tends to support what Zimmerman is saying, that he was being assaulted," former Miami-Dade prosecutor David Waksman said.

The other prosecutors commenting on this case have no more knowledge of the facts and evidence of this case than we do. It's merely speculation and opinion.

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by suzihawk

The other prosecutors commenting on this case have no more knowledge of the facts and evidence of this case than we do. It's merely speculation and opinion.

I was responding to this comment:

Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv

You are not a prosecutor and don't understand the statutes as they do..so to say that he's not guilty of 2nd degree murder is all in the mind of who's stating it..I believe the state would not have brought those charges if they couldn't prove them...to say that is absurd you are not a prosecutor are you?

[Sun48shine]

Interesting article dated today 5/21/12--

The Most Outrageous Aspect of the Trayvon Martin Case

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-o...b_1530050.html

Sound familiar?