NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #9

[Jane Birch]

Originally Posted by clueless

Yeah, I saw the "mug shot". That has me highly skeptical as well. So, all we have is Mr. Renner's word that it happened, a very unusual "mug shot" and a supposed receipt where the signature has been removed. Credit card fraud is a serious accusation and Maura isn't here to either confirm or defend herself. If she was arrested, then where is her real mug shot and arrest record. If she wasn't and this was treated more like a theft by deception charge people get when they bounce a check, then although she wouldn't have been arrested for it, she still would have gone to court so that a judge could give sentencing. So, there should be an official record somewhere....not just a strange mug shot and supposed receipt. If the matter was solely handled by the school & campus police and no formal charges filed, there still should be some kind of proof. Until I see some official evidence, I'm calling BS on this one. Its just gossip and unproven at that.

Yeah, thanks for mentioning the mug shot; I was thinking about it while typing and then....forgot to mention it. It's deeply weird, unofficial and all that.

I'm pretty much with clueless on this one (is that like "I'm with stupid"? ) that until I see actual confirmed evidence that is consistent with...you know, evidence, I'm calling BS.

[NocturnalLady]

Originally Posted by clueless

Yeah, I saw the "mug shot". That has me highly skeptical as well. So, all we have is Mr. Renner's word that it happened, a very unusual "mug shot" and a supposed receipt where the signature has been removed. Credit card fraud is a serious accusation and Maura isn't here to either confirm or defend herself. If she was arrested, then where is her real mug shot and arrest record. If she wasn't and this was treated more like a theft by deception charge people get when they bounce a check, then although she wouldn't have been arrested for it, she still would have gone to court so that a judge could give sentencing. So, there should be an official record somewhere....not just a strange mug shot and supposed receipt. If the matter was solely handled by the school & campus police and no formal charges filed, there still should be some kind of proof. Until I see some official evidence, I'm calling BS on this one. Its just gossip and unproven at that.

So there is supposedly a "mug shot" taken by campus police? But there has never been any published evidence to support this - documents, the actual photo, an affidavit etc. Am I interpreting this correctly?

[clueless]

Jane, Yes, it's a whole like like saying "I'm with stupid!" Hahaha!

NL,
That's my take on it. I haven't seen any evidence, anywhere. No mention of the alleged credit card fraud in any of the newspaper accounts. I'm not good at looking up public records or anything to see if there is an official court document, but I haven't seen any offered up as proof. All we have is Mr. Renner's word for it.

The "mug shot" picture is on Mr. Renner's blog. It's a not so flattering picture of Maura with her hair pulled back and standing in front of a cinder block wall. I believe it was reportedly in the hallway of her dorm building. I also recall seeing a picture of an alleged receipt as well, but the signature was allegedly removed. It didn't look like there was one there at all, but it certainly could have been photoshopped out. Again, we only have Mr. Renner's word as proof.

Mr. Renner is claiming that Maura was potentially about to be expelled from UMass and that she was also kicked out of West Point due to credit card fraud there. I haven't seen any evidence to back up that allegation either.

As far as I'm concerned, the credit card fraud allegations are complete BS until some real evidence is presented. I'm not going to hold my breath. LOL. The whole think just screams hinky.

While we're discussing gossip.....has anyone seen any evidence or admissions about her supposed relationship with the track coach or other track members? This is another rumor I've not heard anywhere except on Mr. Renner's site. Has any relationship with anyone other than her boyfriend been mentioned in any credible newspaper article that I missed?

[NocturnalLady]

As far as the "mug shot" picture goes. I think many dorms take photos of residents so that they know who is supposed to be there (ie. who lives their rather than who is a guest). They keep the photos handy at the desk so that the dorm monitor can be aware of what is going on in the dorm. Back when I was in school there were rules about not having overnight guests in your dorm room and taking the residents photos was supposed to help put a stop to this. Didn't work but that was the theory! Anyhow - I would thin it's entirely possible that the shot of Maura was for this type of purpose. Most of the ones I saw were very casually taken, not very flattering and in front of the inevitable dorm room cinderblock wall.

[clueless]

Did you look at the picture? That could be it, but I'm not sure. I would think that in those casual pictures you talk about, she would have been smiling. Or at least more relaxed. Its just weird, I guess because it's more than just unflattering....she looks almost angry. Not smiling and definitely like she doesn't want her picture taken but has to. She looks older in the pic than any of the others I've seen of her and maybe really tired. That's the only thing that makes it seem more true, but still not believable to me.

[Jane Birch]

Originally Posted by clueless

Jane, Yes, it's a whole like like saying "I'm with stupid!" Hahaha!

NL,
That's my take on it. I haven't seen any evidence, anywhere. No mention of the alleged credit card fraud in any of the newspaper accounts. I'm not good at looking up public records or anything to see if there is an official court document, but I haven't seen any offered up as proof. All we have is Mr. Renner's word for it.

The "mug shot" picture is on Mr. Renner's blog. It's a not so flattering picture of Maura with her hair pulled back and standing in front of a cinder block wall. I believe it was reportedly in the hallway of her dorm building. I also recall seeing a picture of an alleged receipt as well, but the signature was allegedly removed. It didn't look like there was one there at all, but it certainly could have been photoshopped out. Again, we only have Mr. Renner's word as proof.

Mr. Renner is claiming that Maura was potentially about to be expelled from UMass and that she was also kicked out of West Point due to credit card fraud there. I haven't seen any evidence to back up that allegation either.

As far as I'm concerned, the credit card fraud allegations are complete BS until some real evidence is presented. I'm not going to hold my breath. LOL. The whole think just screams hinky.

While we're discussing gossip.....has anyone seen any evidence or admissions about her supposed relationship with the track coach or other track members? This is another rumor I've not heard anywhere except on Mr. Renner's site. Has any relationship with anyone other than her boyfriend been mentioned in any credible newspaper article that I missed?

Nope. Like the credit card thing, this has been bandied about as rumor in some circles (cough cough topix cough cough) but never reported by any reputable media outlet. And nobody's ever come forward to talk about it directly--again, the only evidence we have is thru Mr. Renner.

[Jane Birch]

Originally Posted by NocturnalLady

As far as the "mug shot" picture goes. I think many dorms take photos of residents so that they know who is supposed to be there (ie. who lives their rather than who is a guest). They keep the photos handy at the desk so that the dorm monitor can be aware of what is going on in the dorm. Back when I was in school there were rules about not having overnight guests in your dorm room and taking the residents photos was supposed to help put a stop to this. Didn't work but that was the theory! Anyhow - I would thin it's entirely possible that the shot of Maura was for this type of purpose. Most of the ones I saw were very casually taken, not very flattering and in front of the inevitable dorm room cinderblock wall.

Heck, it could have been her student ID picture for all we know. god knows those things look like mug shots.

[M86]

Am I in the minority that think she's still alive? Something about it, something about reading all of it... Am I being too optimistic?

I believe I've said this before, but I've actually considered moving and leaving my life behind. Starting anew. Without telling anyone. The thought, unfortunately, crossed my mind at times.

I could never do it. I have too many loving people in my life.

I really wish I knew what happened to Maura...

[clueless]

I don't know that you're alone. I go back and forth. Now that I don't think she definitely had a head injury (it's still possible, but not absolute), I think it's possible she is still alive. But after all this time I would think that she would have called someone. She has lots of family and friends that care about her, and I can't imagine she wouldn't care enough for them to contact them at some point. I could see her running away at first, but I don't know about staying gone. So, I think it's possible, but more likely that something happened to her.

[AWOLNATION]

Originally Posted by M86

Am I in the minority that think she's still alive? Something about it, something about reading all of it... Am I being too optimistic?

I believe I've said this before, but I've actually considered moving and leaving my life behind. Starting anew. Without telling anyone. The thought, unfortunately, crossed my mind at times.

I could never do it. I have too many loving people in my life.

I really wish I knew what happened to Maura...

Ive subscribed to that theory from the beginning. People think its hard to fool people and disappear. I dont feel its that hard to accomplish

[WholeLottaRosie]

Originally Posted by AWOLNATION

Ive subscribed to that theory from the beginning. People think its hard to fool people and disappear. I dont feel its that hard to accomplish

I totally agree. I have followed this case since the beginning, through all the boards online on Maura and I keep coming back to this. Some of the blog info so fits my own ideas and thoughts, but who knows.

[neverletgo]

Hardly a day passes where Maura doesn't cross my mind. Maura, where are you?

You are missed.

[AWOLNATION]

Bumping for Maura

- This is AWOLNATION

[Indy Anna]

Originally Posted by shefner

I agree with all that you said except the last bit. You can buy a car and drive it off the lot in the same day. Been there and done it plenty of times. Salesmen work hard to make it happen.....

Once I went to look for a new car in a car with engine problems. My car died as I was parking it in the dealership lot. I drove away in a new car that day. Lucky for the salesman, I couldn't have driven away in my old car if I wanted to.

Twice I have traded in my old car at the dealership. Some people advise, though, selling your old car yourself because you can't be sure you're really getting a fair deal when trading in at the dealership. As a woman, I feel more comfortable trading in my old car, but many people - men especially - are do-it-yourselfers.

[Indy Anna]

I read extensively about MM on the Internet before I discovered Websleuths, but had not read about her case here until now. I had wondered if the matter of credit card fraud had come up and see that it has. Elsewhere, years ago I read some comments purportedly from people who lived her in her dorm at UMass. They admitted they didn't know MM personally but knew people who did. That is where I heard about the credit card fraud angle. While that is just hearsay, I wonder if Mr. Renner got his leads by talking to classmates of MM and residents in her dorm.

While that angle is incriminating for MM, it would only indicate that she had a problem if she continued to do something she had already gotten into trouble for doing, and could be related to her dependence on alcohol. It would also explain:

1.) Why she had recently been upset and cried after receiving a phone call. I don't believe she was involved in the hit and run. As a college student, I worked at the front desk of a dorm during the night shift and know that students come and go into the wee hours of the morning. If a front desk attendant needed to leave the post for any length of time, we were required to find a replacement. Leaving the post unattended is a serious breach of security. If MM had left her post long enough to be involved in a hit and run, someone in the dorm would be able to verify that she vacated her post.

2.) She suddenly packed up and left without telling anyone her destination. One theory is that she was heading to Canada to evade fraud charges. I do find it unlikely she would not call her family to let them know she was safe. Sadly, she was vulnerable enough traveling alone and without anyone's knowledge. She became even more vulnerable after crashing her car.

While I want to believe that Maura is still alive and the idea that she was fleeing to start a new life presents that possibility, I don't think it's probable unless someone was meeting MM to give her a ride. But, she wasn't in cell phone range to call someone for help. I do think she got a ride but, chances are, not with someone she knew or could trust. Had she committed suicide or succumbed to the elements, I don't think she would have wandered too far from the accident scene and her remains would have been discovered by now.

Whatever the case, it's so sad that she hasn't been heard from. Her dad has worked tirelessly to find answers, and the saddest part is that her mother died not knowing what became of her daughter. Whether or not we agree with Mr. Renner's methods, he may the only hope of finding answers for her remaining family.

[teeandcee]

Hi all. I'm new here. I saw this case featured on Disappeared, which I'm watching on Netflix streaming. I enjoy the show despite it seeming to leave out important details.

I have a question regarding the alcohol in Maura's car and can't seem to find an answer. She supposedly bought some wine and several bottles of alcohol but I can only find mention of the wine being found in her car after the wreck. Does anyone know anything about the other 3 bottles of liquor?

Thanks!

[scoops]

Originally Posted by teeandcee

Hi all. I'm new here. I saw this case featured on Disappeared, which I'm watching on Netflix streaming. I enjoy the show despite it seeming to leave out important details.

I have a question regarding the alcohol in Maura's car and can't seem to find an answer. She supposedly bought some wine and several bottles of alcohol but I can only find mention of the wine being found in her car after the wreck. Does anyone know anything about the other 3 bottles of liquor?

Thanks!

there really is no clear answer on this one.

It is believed that she had a box of wine (that exploded in her car after her wreck) and it has been reported by some sources that she had some bottles of alcohol as well (going off a receipt found in her car). The bottles weren't located. After an inventory of what was in her car, the items unaccounted for physcially were a black back pack and the bottles of alcohol. Her clothes, school books etc.. were all left behind in her car which she locked before she left the accident site.

[scoops]

Originally Posted by Indy Anna

I read extensively about MM on the Internet before I discovered Websleuths, but had not read about her case here until now. I had wondered if the matter of credit card fraud had come up and see that it has. Elsewhere, years ago I read some comments purportedly from people who lived her in her dorm at UMass. They admitted they didn't know MM personally but knew people who did. That is where I heard about the credit card fraud angle. While that is just hearsay, I wonder if Mr. Renner got his leads by talking to classmates of MM and residents in her dorm.

While that angle is incriminating for MM, it would only indicate that she had a problem if she continued to do something she had already gotten into trouble for doing, and could be related to her dependence on alcohol. It would also explain:

1.) Why she had recently been upset and cried after receiving a phone call. I don't believe she was involved in the hit and run. As a college student, I worked at the front desk of a dorm during the night shift and know that students come and go into the wee hours of the morning. If a front desk attendant needed to leave the post for any length of time, we were required to find a replacement. Leaving the post unattended is a serious breach of security. If MM had left her post long enough to be involved in a hit and run, someone in the dorm would be able to verify that she vacated her post.

2.) She suddenly packed up and left without telling anyone her destination. One theory is that she was heading to Canada to evade fraud charges. I do find it unlikely she would not call her family to let them know she was safe. Sadly, she was vulnerable enough traveling alone and without anyone's knowledge. She became even more vulnerable after crashing her car.

While I want to believe that Maura is still alive and the idea that she was fleeing to start a new life presents that possibility, I don't think it's probable unless someone was meeting MM to give her a ride. But, she wasn't in cell phone range to call someone for help. I do think she got a ride but, chances are, not with someone she knew or could trust. Had she committed suicide or succumbed to the elements, I don't think she would have wandered too far from the accident scene and her remains would have been discovered by now.

Whatever the case, it's so sad that she hasn't been heard from. Her dad has worked tirelessly to find answers, and the saddest part is that her mother died not knowing what became of her daughter. Whether or not we agree with Mr. Renner's methods, he may the only hope of finding answers for her remaining family.

Good thoughts, and well-thought out post.

I will just add my own personal thoughts, not trying to debate, just opening up discussion.

On Point 1: I'm really skeptical about the credit card issue if there was really one. She wasn't criminally charged with anything, that point needs to be understood and credit card fraud of any kind is no joke.
As far as a possible tie in to the hit and run that took place a block away from where she worked, I would like to think she had nothing to do with that, but I can't dismiss the possibility myself. Her father swoops into town less than 48 hours later to help her get a new car. In media reports no one is really questioning anything about the condition of maura's saturn yet it is introduced by family members, particularly maura's father that his daughter's saturn was almost undriveable and maura hardly ever drove it at all (almost as a built in excuse to explain her hiding her car for the weekend her father came up as if something wasn't suppose to be seen on the car and add to the fact it creates a great alibi for the father to come in and get her a new car.

On Point 2: totally agree with you. She became extremely vulnerable traveling alone. And whether or not she was involved in a hit and run, just depressed with life or was just wanting a break, she lost touch with her family and loved ones and anything could've happened to her up in new hampshire.

It was really sad to learn that maura's mother actually died on Maura's birthday.
I don't believe Maura's parents have any idea what happened to their daughter and that they are covering up something (concerning her disappearance).
However, the events that kind of started the chain in motion for Maura to leave her school campus ... I am just not so sure that her father in particular, doesn't know more than what has been released to the public to date.

[teeandcee]

Thanks. I thought I was really confused.

Originally Posted by scoops

there really is no clear answer on this one.

It is believed that she had a box of wine (that exploded in her car after her wreck) and it has been reported by some sources that she had some bottles of alcohol as well (going off a receipt found in her car). The bottles weren't located. After an inventory of what was in her car, the items unaccounted for physcially were a black back pack and the bottles of alcohol. Her clothes, school books etc.. were all left behind in her car which she locked before she left the accident site.

[goldiegirl]

About the Vasi hit and run - isn't it possible that she let someone else use her car and that person had the accident while Maura was still working security?

I'm not sure why she would rather cover up the accident than just admit to it, so I know that's unlikely. When I was in college I let my roommate drive my car even though she obviously wasn't on our insurance, and someone rear ended the car. I had to tell my parents that I had let my roommate drive. If someone had been hit I can't imagine covering this up just for insurance reasons/getting in trouble with parents. But still, it keeps coming to me that just because Maura herself may not have been involved it doesn't mean that her car wasn't.

ETA: And maybe - and this is all totally just me throwing things out there that I don't necessarily believe - but maybe the person driving was someone she didn't want anyone to know about, like a new boyfriend or something. One would think this would have come out by now, but you never know.

[M86]

Originally Posted by teeandcee

Hi all. I'm new here. I saw this case featured on Disappeared, which I'm watching on Netflix streaming. I enjoy the show despite it seeming to leave out important details.

I have a question regarding the alcohol in Maura's car and can't seem to find an answer. She supposedly bought some wine and several bottles of alcohol but I can only find mention of the wine being found in her car after the wreck. Does anyone know anything about the other 3 bottles of liquor?

Thanks!

I know someone replied to your question, but I've found something different:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011...l-missing.html

According to the blog, it was all accounted for.

[M86]

Originally Posted by goldiegirl

About the Vasi hit and run - isn't it possible that she let someone else use her car and that person had the accident while Maura was still working security?

I'm not sure why she would rather cover up the accident than just admit to it, so I know that's unlikely. When I was in college I let my roommate drive my car even though she obviously wasn't on our insurance, and someone rear ended the car. I had to tell my parents that I had let my roommate drive. If someone had been hit I can't imagine covering this up just for insurance reasons/getting in trouble with parents. But still, it keeps coming to me that just because Maura herself may not have been involved it doesn't mean that her car wasn't.

ETA: And maybe - and this is all totally just me throwing things out there that I don't necessarily believe - but maybe the person driving was someone she didn't want anyone to know about, like a new boyfriend or something. One would think this would have come out by now, but you never know.

About the Vasi hit & run, yes, it's possible (her loaning her vehicle to someone)... I don't really see a connection though.

What is up with the creepy YouTube videos from that guy? I'm sure it's been discussed, but what are everyone's thoughts on it? Is there a connection somewhere with it? Where is this guy residing? From what I've seen, he's a troll, but does he know more?

[scoops]

Originally Posted by M86

I know someone replied to your question, but I've found something different:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011...l-missing.html

According to the blog, it was all accounted for.

this has been discussed with James.

He talked to someone in law enforcement who told him that the alcohol had all been accounted for. It doesn't mean they scooped up all of the alcohol though and stored it away in a cold case file somewhere. It means they know (have accounted for) how much alcohol maura was to have had on her at the time she took her trip by going over her liquor store receipt found in her car and physically seeing the smashed box of franzia wine in her car.

[scoops]

Originally Posted by goldiegirl

About the Vasi hit and run - isn't it possible that she let someone else use her car and that person had the accident while Maura was still working security?

I'm not sure why she would rather cover up the accident than just admit to it, so I know that's unlikely. When I was in college I let my roommate drive my car even though she obviously wasn't on our insurance, and someone rear ended the car. I had to tell my parents that I had let my roommate drive. If someone had been hit I can't imagine covering this up just for insurance reasons/getting in trouble with parents. But still, it keeps coming to me that just because Maura herself may not have been involved it doesn't mean that her car wasn't.

ETA: And maybe - and this is all totally just me throwing things out there that I don't necessarily believe - but maybe the person driving was someone she didn't want anyone to know about, like a new boyfriend or something. One would think this would have come out by now, but you never know.

It is a big IF ... But if Maura or her car had something to do with the hit and run, then she would've thought she would've been facing severe consequences. Petrit Vasi was in a coma for over a month after the wreck. Whomever struck him, could've very easily have killed him and at the time of wreck, I am assuming that his diagnosis wasn't very good for surviving. Then you add to the fact that it was a hit and run and someone (if caught) was facing some serious jail time.

[goldiegirl]

Originally Posted by scoops

It is a big IF ... But if Maura or her car had something to do with the hit and run, then she would've thought she would've been facing severe consequences. Petrit Vasi was in a coma for over a month after the wreck. Whomever struck him, could've very easily have killed him and at the time of wreck, I am assuming that his diagnosis wasn't very good for surviving. Then you add to the fact that it was a hit and run and someone (if caught) was facing some serious jail time.

Exactly. And that would totally explain her leaving and her getting a new car. But what it comes down to is, PV connection or not ,the reason Maura left likely doesn't matter, since it probably has nothing to do with what happened to her, IMO. Although, depending on what that reason was, I guess it could help us figure out her intentions. Say it was the PV accident, that could fit for both suicide or moving to Canada to escape charges. Then again some creep could've gotten her, too. Who knows