ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #8

[james62]

Originally Posted by 9InchNails

Yes, that's also what I read.

http://www.europe1.fr/France/Depeceu...olice-1113881/



Translation: But the suspected killer had thrown his phone away in a bin in the metro. Actually, the mobile phone had been recovered by a cleaner who then used it to call his family in Africa.

Ah yes, thank you. I'm sure that's where I saw it too.

[PAXIMUS]

Originally Posted by HastingsChi

PAX, given the information about this potential case that has been confirmed up until this point, what would you think his potential defense case might be? (Others, especially those with intimate knowledge of the Canadian justice system please feel free to chime in on this question)

That is a good question, it is really hard to know what sort of defense may be in play here without having all of the evidence laid out in front of me to pick apart and witnesses to cross examine in pre trial deposition etc but from what I DO know and knowing what I do about Luka, right now, I would suggest he is going to argue he was framed and from the evidence I DO SEE right now, I could very well, and to some degree of success, make that argument well enough to plant some reasonable doubt in at least one juror.

However, if I were able to get a diagnoses for an Axis 1 mental disorder I would very likely put not criminally responsible by reason of insanity OR guilty but insane if they have his face on the video, on the table. If he is diagnosed with an Axis 2 mental disorder then insanity, at least in the states is likely not a possible defense. Common Axis I disorders include depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and schizophrenia/psychosis. Common Axis 2 disorders include borderline personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, and mild mental retardation. Axis 1 disorders can be treated with medication and are the ones normally used in an insanity defense. Axis 2 disorders can very rarely be treated with medication and are generally not accepted by the court as evidence of being criminally insane, with the exception of mental retardation which is usually ruled as not competent to stand trial.


As you know a defendant is not required to put on any defense and he could simply plead not guilty and then take his chances with the state being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty. Or he could put on an active defense arguing that he was framed or insane etc. Again, right now, I would probably argue he was framed, even though I dont believe that personally I could argue it in court, but if I had an actual Axis 1 diagnoses I would definitely consider some sort of insanity defense.

[Karmady]

Originally Posted by james62

yes, i'd heard that about counsellors and shrinks being some of the most messed up people- it was my clinical psychologist who told me
I know that a lot of what I've gone through has been environmental. there will almost certainly have been genetic elements sure. My main condition is a form of anxiety which can be extremely severe. It was explained to me that the sudden disappearance of a primary care giver (i.e. parent) at a young age is probably the most severe trauma a young child can experience. In my case it expresses itself in many ways, but the worst is 'catastrophisation', i.e. being convinced that something dreadful is about to happen. For me it's logical that I should fear that, because it actually did happen when I was 6, and very sudden it was two. One minute she was there, next minute gone until i found her 35 years later.

For me depression is a secondary condition brought on by the anxiety disorder.

Anyway I'm finding your posts on this (mental health) aspect very interesting. Thank you.

I think this is very true. Just speculating, but I would think that many people who study psychology do so because they have an interest in the subject for personal reasons and are trying to better understand their own situation. I know that is very true for myself. I'm not a practicing psychologist, but I do hold a degree in it. I found the subject matter extremely interesting in its own right, but there was a very personal element to it, too. In fact, I wrote my senior paper on my personal topic, unbeknownst to anyone but myself.

So if there's any truth to my speculation, many people who follow that professional path have their own childhood traumas to deal with. jmo

[HastingsChi]

I think it is important in the early pages of a new thread to ask that we all might take a moment and remember Jun / Justin Lin and his family and friends who are going through a very difficult time.



While I shared this article in the previous thread, I feel it is important to highlight again from the Calgary Herald:

Stricken with grief, family of Jun Lin says: 'We come to take you home'http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/na...#ixzz1xPh7Y2z3

A wave of sorrow washes over Yan Shi's face as he describes meeting the mother of the victim of one of Canada's most horrific crimes.

Jun Lin's mother could barely be understood amid her sobs but Shi said one message for her murdered son came out clear as a bell — "We come to bring you home now."

Lin's mother struggled to stay on her feet and was so overcome with grief that she could barely express herself.

"The entire scene was heartbreaking," Shi told The Canadian Press in an interview.

"Lin's mother was very emotional. She was crying the entire time. It's really terrible just being there. We didn't understand a word she was saying, she was crying a lot.

"She was barely walking. We had to help her."

Read more:





Jun Lin, a man of peace

[livingstone]

Originally Posted by Sonya610

Nope, but will search for it. I am a netflix member and was sad to realize someone told me about "A Serbian Film" ages ago and it WAS on netflix for a bit but then censored/deleted before I knew it was there.

I am not so comfy with downloading non-legit sources of full length movies because of the virus risks, plus i don't know how to unzip them.

Yeah, that movie was disturbing. There was not a high degree of gore, it was more the psychological implications that were disturbing. Very dark and soul piercing.

The video with Magnotta had a high degree of gore, yet it affected me less than that movie. I suppose that it was due to the fact that the Magnotta video seemed so excessive, so over the top and desperate, that there were few psychological elements to it.

Sure the fact it was created at all is disturbing, but I think you may know what I am getting at.

(I know may sound terrible to some here that a studio movie with no real victim (but in real life there was) would disturb one more that an actual video with an actual victim. But, when a person has seen death they develop certain coping mechanisms)

[9InchNails]

Originally Posted by HastingsChi

In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay porn star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

I think I've read this story in the french media too but it seems that it's not in my browser history. Anyway, there wasn't much info in the report.

[JBean]

Originally Posted by james62

I read in an MSM report (sorry no link) that he threw his phone in a rubbish bin in the Paris metro. However, the phone was found by a cleaner and used, leading police to think he was still in Paris when he was actually in Berlin.

need a link please.

[LadyL]

Originally Posted by HastingsChi

In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay porn star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

maybe he is a potential future witness & has been advised not to talk or maybe he's in hiding from all the vulturistic photogs (or maybe he never existed to begin with and the 'police source' was full of it)

[Chorley8]

Hastings it is not a news source it is potentially in fact likely a primary source in the case a letter of a friend of L.M. or L.M. himself. Of course we can't authenticate it from here (!) in fact my comment was in the form of an enquiry. Anyway the video itself is not from a trusted news source.

Trust me the police are searching for knowledge of L.M.'s movements and his link to other cases I doubt they are dusting off their first year psychology textbooks and discussing nature vs. nurture. But ok I will stick to the thread on that other case to discuss it though I do not see why we can't discuss possible links of L.M. to other cases. Even where he lived blocks away, really? Isn't that what the police are doing?

Bot? Let's all stay calm. There is great pressure in the Canadian media at least to contain this story and keep out all elements that link L.M. to 1. politics even though he sent a threatening letter to the P.M. 2. racist anti-immigrant groups even though he posted on Stormfront etc.3. organized crime and I don't think we only have to think Russian here 4. maybe especially high end prostitutes with high end clients and the potential fall-out if names get named. If you read the Wiki article on L.M.'s girlfriend she claims some high end contacts.

But we don't have to mirror that reluctance here.

[GatsbyGrace]

Originally Posted by HastingsChi

In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay porn star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

The guy might not be 'out' to his family & I can't think of a worse way to come out ...

"Mom, Dad ... I'm gay & by the way, you're going to be seeing some interviews I did in the news about how I harbored the Butcher of Montreal for 2 nights after I met him in a nightclub."

[HastingsChi]

Originally Posted by 9InchNails

I think I've read this story in the french media too but it seems that it's not in my browser history. Anyway, there wasn't much info in the report.

Thanks 9InchNails. Given the sensational nature of the "reporting" of this case, would you agree that the guy who made the two day hookup claim and the details he could share of Magnotta's activities during those two days is something that would get huge media attention?

[Sonya610]

Originally Posted by livingstone

In fact, the reason I watched the video at all was because it is in line with my profession and this perp is one I care to study a bit, due to his unique profile.

No doubt "Grimm Love" was also watched for professional reasons, Hollywood is the best source of unbiased factual research.

If the full video came out I would watch it. I have a problem watching hard core non-consentual sadism however I doubt the video contains any such thing.

Does anyone know how he met the victim? If not, why is that still such a mystery? I am guessing it was online and LE knows how they met.

[GatsbyGrace]

Originally Posted by livingstone

Graphic

He obviously practiced on household pets. I cannot see this kid going hunting and dressing large game.

<rsbm>/BBM.

[HastingsChi]

Originally Posted by GatsbyGrace

The guy might not be 'out' to his family & I can't think of a worse way to come out ...

"Mom, Dad ... I'm gay & by the way, you're going to be seeing some interviews I did in the news about how I harbored the Butcher of Montreal for 2 nights after I met him in a nightclub."

The MSM could easily protect his identity (using the proper, ethical sourcing methods to do this) if this was the case. The MSM does this all the time, like when Greta's opinion program interviewed the Anthony juror.

[james62]

Originally Posted by JBean

need a link please.

a link has since been posted by 9InchNails.

[PAXIMUS]

I am very interested in what sort of tools LE found in his apartment, the dismemberment cuts are VERY CLEAN and almost such that you would assume they were done professionally by a surgeon, the body is not all hacked up, the cuts are clean and precise and there IS NO WAY he was able to hack through the bone with the little steak knife he had in the video because he did not dismember at JOINTS he had to have cut through bone on several occasions leading me to believe he at least used a hand saw, since the neighbor did not hear anything I doubt he was using an electrical saws although they do have cordless saws these days that are pretty quiet. But there is no doubt he had more tools than just the steak knife you see in the video and it seems he certainly must have had some experience with dismemberment because it doesnt look like the job of a rookie.

[Chorley8]

"Canadian police have launched a cold case review on suspicion Magnotta may be a serial killer who has murdered many times".

This is from the article on the French guy who picked him up in Paris it is the Mirror online since someone else has linked to it a few posts back I am hoping it fits into the definition of a trusted news source. To be honest it is not what I myself would call a trusted or official news source but I think it fits the rules here.

[GatsbyGrace]

Originally Posted by HastingsChi

Thanks 9InchNails. Given the sensational nature of the "reporting" of this case, would you agree that the guy who made the two day hookup claim and the details he could share of Magnotta's activities during those two days is something that would get huge media attention?

He has no obligation to speak to the media. His obligation ends with telling his story to LE. At least he didn't come out & publicly state he was entertaining bids for his story like the internet cafe employee.

I have a hunch that the French are more tight-lipped about such matters than we Americans are. Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Cappuccino]

My hunch is this is his first murder, because he made a lot of mistakes. Having said that, if I was LE I would be checking his past movements very carefully for any link with previous murders, because there's always the chance that he got away with a few before and just got sloppy.

[deanna82437]

Originally Posted by PAXIMUS

I have seen several people state that the authorities have now for certain determined that it is Luka in the video. This is NOT apparent in the edited version and the assumption is that in the unedited version that the authorities have he can be seen. I have found NO reports that indicates this but it has been stated here as fact several times, so can anyone show me a report where it indicates that he can be SEEN in the unedited version and the authorities have FOR CERTAIN tied him to the video, because I dont believe that is the case.

I am looking for stuff myself but not finding anything yet.

I posted this on that last page of the last thread. Catching up AGAIN, sorry if it's been answered already.

Originally Posted by susan1122 View Post

A bit of ESP going on there? Yes, it must have blown you away!

About if it was him in the video.....I just hope that they have irrefutable evidence.

Catching up again, but would this be "irrefutable evidence"?

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1x35Nl1IN

Quote:

May 30: Viewing of the video at 4 a.m. allowed Montreal police to ascertain the victim was Asian. They linked this to a missing person’s report filed May 28 for 33-year-old Concordia University student Lin, who was last seen on May 24. A close friend of Lin later confirms the identity

[Chorley8]

"not a rookie" yes Paximus I agree and maybe not just someone who has practiced rather someone who was trained/taught.

[Sealuzna]

Originally Posted by LadyL

[bbm]

this is like a game of telephone tag IMO & this is why we need to post MSM links

I agree about links, but I think we all understand what basics are true: that Luka left it in the subway and from that point on it was not moved on Luka's person. Whether the cleaner who found it then traveled by car or subway train or foot or a mixture of all three, I think it's irrelevant at this point. It's interesting though, but personally I'm focusing on finding evidence that proves guilt beyond reasonable doubt; otherwise I would have spent the time finding a link for you.

[james62]

Originally Posted by GatsbyGrace

He has no obligation to speak to the media. His obligation ends with telling his story to LE. At least he didn't come out & publicly state he was entertaining bids for his story like the internet cafe employee.

I have a hunch that the French are more tight-lipped about such matters than we Americans are. Can anyone shed any light on this?

I lived in France for 7 years, and definitely found them to be bigger on privacy than us in the UK at least. There is quite a big barrier between media and private life, and stricter privacy laws than we have here.

[Sonya610]

Originally Posted by livingstone

Yeah, that movie was disturbing. There was not a high degree of gore, it was more the psychological implications that were disturbing. Very dark and soul piercing.

Back to gay cannibals, the film you mentioned. They are about the happiest friendliest least sadistic folks one could ever meet in those circles. Also IMO the most real online as far as actual incidents go (not that I have any stats, I am sure there have been a whole lot of "accidental" hangings with web cams running as well).

A few years ago I was corresponding with one guy, he was very friendly and sent me several stories (cause I was running a story site at the time). Nice guy, funny, chipper etc.... I am certain he went down that road and he ever came back. He had been with the same partner for 20 years, they found his jeep abandoned.

He was looking for real, much like Armin's "victim", and he found it. I wish him God's Speed as he was a nice guy.

[PAXIMUS]

Originally Posted by Chorley8

"not a rookie" yes Paximus I agree and maybe not just someone who has practiced rather someone who was trained/taught.

Well this isnt the place for my crazy far out theories but I do have some about who and what Luka might really be, what the purpose of this all could be and who he may be working for and trained by. From the sound of your previous posts I think we are on the same page wrt some of that.