Why hasn't there been an arrest?

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by 4Jacy

5th Amendment. Parents of missing children should be made to talk with LE and take Sodium Penethol tests and have them admissible in a court of law. These babies/children cannot defend/fight for themselves. Laws must be changed.

Those are the laws I'd like to see changed, "RANCH".

Thanks for your reply 4Jacy. Historically the 5th amendment's protection against self-incrimination comes from the use of torture and other means of coercion by governments to get someone to incriminate themselves. Besides the morality of engaging in such activities, I question the accuracy of confessions or information gleaned from using these techniques.

If the purpose of using sodium thiopental (trademarked name sodium pentothal) is to get the truth and bring people to justice, I have my doubts of it's ability to do that. From what I've read its reliability as a "truth serum" is questionable.

The drug tends to make subjects loquacious and cooperative with interrogators; however, the reliability of confessions made under thiopental is questionable

Possibly getting a false confession or faulty information is not getting justice to me.

While I can understand your frustration in not having an arrest in the case of Lisa Irwin, in my opinion changing the 5th amendment to allow the use of sodium pentothal is not the answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_...al#Truth_serum

[KsStormy]

Originally Posted by 4Jacy

Well, August has rushed in with a resounding thud of nothingness. I suppose DB is sitting on her butt at the computer, despondent about our opinion of her. Perhaps JI is straightening up the cellar and stocking the bar for another party. Probably boys are with grandparents or uncle PN.

Whatever is going on in the household tonight, you know they are not looking for their child. Probably not even thinking about her with all the "adult time" that is needed.

Time to change the laws when it comes to missing children.

Wonder if today on the 10 month anniversary they are doing the same thing they did on the 7th? Beer Bash followed by Royals Game/bar?

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by KsStormy

Wonder if today on the 10 month anniversary they are doing the same thing they did on the 7th? Beer Bash followed by Royals Game/bar?

Hi KsStormy. I don't know about any beer bashes but I was wondering what your thoughts are about changing the 5th amendment to allow the use of drugs to get information out of parents of missing children?

[KsStormy]

Originally Posted by RANCH

Hi KsStormy. I don't know about any beer bashes but I was wondering what your thoughts are about changing the 5th amendment to allow the use of drugs to get information out of parents of missing children?

I don't know enough about it to make an informed decision. That said, whatever works.....

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by KsStormy

I don't know enough about it to make an informed decision. That said, whatever works.....

Thanks for giving us an honest answer to my question. And I very much agree with you that before we make any changes to our constitution, we must be absolutely certain that those changes do in fact "work".

[Cappuccino]

It wouldn't work. Repealing the Fifth Amendment and legalising the use of sodium pentothal would just increase the likelihood of false confessions, and fail to do anything to protect children. It might actually help guilty people get away with it, because the parade of false confession after false confession in the courts would in the end lead juries to treat all confessions with increased suspicion, even genuine ones.

And sodium pentothal is not a truth drug, despite what people have seen on "24" or whatever. Its no different to giving people alcohol.

[redheadedgal]

Originally Posted by KsStormy

Wonder if today on the 10 month anniversary they are doing the same thing they did on the 7th? Beer Bash followed by Royals Game/bar?

[eileenhawkeye]

I don't agree with the sentiment that the parents are getting away with this because of their lawyers. Not talking to LE is a constitutional right, not a privilege. If the only way that LE can solve the case is through a confession, then they must not have much evidence. I definitely think that not knowing 100% what happened to Lisa is why the case can't move forward, not because of some shady conspiracy in Kansas City politics.

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye

I don't agree with the sentiment that the parents are getting away with this because of their lawyers. Not talking to LE is a constitutional right, not a privilege. If the only way that LE can solve the case is through a confession, then they must not have much evidence. I definitely think that not knowing 100% what happened to Lisa is why the case can't move forward, not because of some shady conspiracy in Kansas City politics.

Good post Eileen. I agree that a lack of evidence must be the reason why there has been no arrest in this case yet. Expecting a suspect to confess or blaming their lawyer for doing their job doesn't work for me. JMO.

[redheadedgal]

Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye

I definitely think that not knowing 100% what happened to Lisa is why the case can't move forward, not because of some shady conspiracy in Kansas City politics.

pretty sure they (LE) believe she's dead... just not sure about accident vs something more sinister... and without knowing who to charge what with, no arrest(s) can be made.

poor lisa

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by redheadedgal

pretty sure they (LE) believe she's dead... just not sure about accident vs something more sinister... and without knowing who to charge what with, no arrest(s) can be made.

poor lisa

Yes I agree. A lack of evidence of what happened and who did what. So no arrest. JMO.

[nursebeeme]

Cut out the snark and back and forth bickering.

If your post is gone that is the reason.

[4Jacy]

I wonder if LE has checked any dr's records LI had? Maybe she was diagnosed with something and the parents felt they couldn't afford it/didn't want to deal with it and decided to get rid of her. Just throwing it out there.

[KsStormy]

Originally Posted by redheadedgal

pretty sure they (LE) believe she's dead... just not sure about accident vs something more sinister... and without knowing who to charge what with, no arrest(s) can be made.

poor lisa

I believe LE knows what happened, as I haven't heard one word about this being a possible kidnapping from them since before the parents quit cooperating with them & lawyered up. The cadaver dog hit pretty much made up my mind, and of course the bizarre behavior of the parents as well.

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by KsStormy

I believe LE knows what happened, as I haven't heard one word about this being a possible kidnapping from them since before the parents quit cooperating with them & lawyered up. The cadaver dog hit pretty much made up my mind, and of course the bizarre behavior of the parents as well.

Why hasn't there been an arrest yet? I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me of a kidnapping, and I also haven't seen enough evidence that Lisa's parents did anything illegal. So we have no arrest. JMO.

[iamnotagolem]

Originally Posted by 4Jacy

I wonder if LE has checked any dr's records LI had? Maybe she was diagnosed with something and the parents felt they couldn't afford it/didn't want to deal with it and decided to get rid of her. Just throwing it out there.

I'd hope that her doctors records have been checked, they could provide valuable information. I have to wonder if she had been to a doctor.

[Melon]

Originally Posted by redheadedgal

pretty sure they (LE) believe she's dead... just not sure about accident vs something more sinister... and without knowing who to charge what with, no arrest(s) can be made.

poor lisa

I agree with you on the LE knows she is dead part.

LE has been so tight lipped we really have no idea where they are in the case. I would assume they have cleared all leads they had when the parents were on the Dr Phil show by now, but we have no way of knowing if they have or haven't. We have no idea if they cleared all the info from DB's hundred pages of notes. We have no idea if all the investigators have wrapped up their portions of the case. Since the media interest seems to have died down unless self initiated by the Irwin camp, LE may be still conducting an active investigation, doing searches and the like, and we just don't know it. We have no idea if the case is mostly wrapped up but some little niggling detail needs to be worked out before it's presented to the proper authority for progressing to charges. Are LE biding their time hoping her body is recovered in some time frame before proceeding? You could just go on and on with reasons and possibilities.

There isn't enough evidence for me to conclude the lack of arrest is due to lack of evidence.

I see no need for rushing this case, especially this late in the game. It's too late to save BL, she is in the same non-living state she was in from the moment her parents reported her missing. It's probably too late to recover any evidence from her body should it be found right now unless it's pretty drastic skeletal damage. The best you can do for her is putting together the best case possible. If it takes years, so be it.

[redheadedgal]

good post, melon.

as i posted last week there are cases where a parent was arrested over a year later and even up to three years after the disappearance of a child. i have great hope that LE will solve this case and make the appropriate arrests...

btw, just today, KCPD said on a facebook page that there are no new leads in lisa's case... the wording makes me wonder if they want readers to "read between the lines"...

[Melon]

Originally Posted by redheadedgal

good post, melon.

as i posted last week there are cases where a parent was arrested over a year later and even up to three years after the disappearance of a child. i have great hope that LE will solve this case and make the appropriate arrests...

btw, just today, KCPD said on a facebook page that there are no new leads in lisa's case... the wording makes me wonder if they want readers to "read between the lines"...

TY. I expect if charges are filed, it will be a ways out yet. No basis for saying that, just my gut on it. I think if LI were recovered before now, this thread wouldn't exist. I think charges would have been filed against one of both of the parents.


I wonder if LE considers that info DB gave them "leads". I also wonder if LE ever got DNA from the boys they were requesting. At one point they said something to the effect that they needed it to help clear up the unknown dna they had waiting to be identified. That unknown dna and lack of the brother's dna (if it has not been provided) could be yet another reason the case has not presented to the prosecutor yet.

[redheadedgal]

Originally Posted by Melon

I wonder if LE considers that info DB gave them "leads".

i believe reports were that no new or helpful information came from that info/meeting with LE...

[RANCH]

Originally Posted by Melon

I agree with you on the LE knows she is dead part.

LE has been so tight lipped we really have no idea where they are in the case. I would assume they have cleared all leads they had when the parents were on the Dr Phil show by now, but we have no way of knowing if they have or haven't. We have no idea if they cleared all the info from DB's hundred pages of notes. We have no idea if all the investigators have wrapped up their portions of the case. Since the media interest seems to have died down unless self initiated by the Irwin camp, LE may be still conducting an active investigation, doing searches and the like, and we just don't know it. We have no idea if the case is mostly wrapped up but some little niggling detail needs to be worked out before it's presented to the proper authority for progressing to charges. Are LE biding their time hoping her body is recovered in some time frame before proceeding? You could just go on and on with reasons and possibilities.

There isn't enough evidence for me to conclude the lack of arrest is due to lack of evidence.

I see no need for rushing this case, especially this late in the game. It's too late to save BL, she is in the same non-living state she was in from the moment her parents reported her missing. It's probably too late to recover any evidence from her body should it be found right now unless it's pretty drastic skeletal damage. The best you can do for her is putting together the best case possible. If it takes years, so be it.

BBM
I agree with most of your post and would like to comment on the sentence that I bolded.

I would say that LE has collected evidence in this case. But whatever evidence they do have is at this time not enough for them to make an arrest. There's no reason for them to wait if they have enough evidence to arrest and possibly convict someone in the disappearance of Lisa Irwin. JMO.

[Melon]

Originally Posted by RANCH

BBM
I agree with most of your post and would like to comment on the sentence that I bolded.

I would say that LE has collected evidence in this case. But whatever evidence they do have is at this time not enough for them to make an arrest. There's no reason for them to wait if they have enough evidence to arrest and possibly convict someone in the disappearance of Lisa Irwin. JMO.

Sorry, I just don't see the lack of arrest currently as the "not enough evidence" gotcha people like to trot out. We do not even know if the case is complete yet. Perhaps if the case is announced as completed and shelved and years go by with no charges, I will entertain the "not enough evidence" argument. It's waaay to early in the case for that for me. YMMV.

[Melon]

Originally Posted by redheadedgal

i believe reports were that no new or helpful information came from that info/meeting with LE...

I do remember hearing that but you know LE had to validate and verify whatever it was she wasted their time with. I wonder if they are finished with that.

[redheadedgal]

Originally Posted by Melon

I do remember hearing that but you know LE had to validate and verify whatever it was she wasted their time with. I wonder if they are finished with that.

i'm sure it didn't take a lot of time to rule it all unrelated and irrelevant...

[Whisperer]

The case is cold. The two parents have high profile attorneys and a rich benefactor to hide and guide them. I don't think these two are affected much by all of this. They have moved on to a better life. Life is not a struggle for them right now.