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  #376  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:23 PM
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On point 1, I agree. On point 2, I guess that depends on which capacity you qualify a suspect. I suspect, no less than 2 were involved during at least some phases of the crime. That leaves at least one more than 1. MOO? Perhaps. It is mathematically improbable that anyone acted alone during the entire commission of this crime.
"It is mathematically improbable that anyone acted alone during the entire commission of this crime ..."

How so?
  #377  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:25 PM
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Do your own math. I did, based on available information. Not impossible, just time consuming. I recon that be something you have on your hands, or you wouldn't be here and time better constructed. Be well.
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  #378  
Old 08-01-2012, 08:21 AM
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Hi Jazz, yep we agree to disagree a lot Although we don't really disagree on DS being guilty, now do we? You think he's guilty and I don't know whether he is or he's not, that doesn't make much of a disagreement now does it?. May be we disagree just a little about calling DS a wimp or ball-less ... ouch! (like you just did) , or the many other adjectives used to describe DS, but again just a little anyway, if anything I question the strategy, since for many, poor DS being hit over the head with anything but the kitchen sink may espouse a bit more or a lot more sympathy for him that it otherwise would have been there in the first place, and isn't somebody eying the kitchen sink already as a possible next move? As you are fond to say ... just saying!
But wouldn't you at least admit you discount all of the circumstantial evidence released thus far? It seems that if they found a murder weapon with Michelle's blood and Dale's fingerprints you may attempt to explain away how Dale could have been involved. That is how it SOMETIMES comes across. I know you like healthy debates but I still haven't seen any good theories on someone other than Dale nor have I seen ANY supporting evidence to clear Dale. If what Dale is saying is true....Michelle came and went as Dale described and Dale went directly to his parents AND stayed their the WHOLE time Michelle went missing he WOULDN'T be the PRIME suspect after dozens and dozens of LE reviewed the case. The reason he is the suspect is he lied over and over again IMO and his story doesn't hold water. Furthermore Michelle's normal activity ceases immediately upon arrival at Carter Glen and Dale has long periods of time where he cannot be accounted for. Dale is as stupid as they come if he thinks he can get away with MURDER but given his track record it's already a PROVEN fact he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
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  #379  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:09 AM
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JMO - I think they know the 'Who', 'What' and 'When'. They just need the 'Where' and 'How'. I think that is what we have been trying to figure out ourselves (where/how)

MOO of course
Thank you for the response, but it doesn't answer my question. I am interested in the probability of there being any solid evidence to solve this case; ie DNA, evidence of drugging a victim, fibers left behind....

I fear that if Michelle is found dead somewhere in the area, it will remain a mystery and there will not be an arrest. JMO
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  #380  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:35 AM
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If they REALLY wanted to, they could watch the whole thing unfold before their eyes, if only they would change some laws. It's not that the technology isn't there, it's just not used because somehow, we all have more rights than the deceased. Sad, really, how our priorities get so messed up, isn't it?
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  #381  
Old 08-01-2012, 10:54 AM
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If they REALLY wanted to, they could watch the whole thing unfold before their eyes, if only they would change some laws. It's not that the technology isn't there, it's just not used because somehow, we all have more rights than the deceased. Sad, really, how our priorities get so messed up, isn't it?
What laws should be changed and what rights should we not have?
  #382  
Old 08-01-2012, 11:05 AM
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Thank you for the response, but it doesn't answer my question. I am interested in the probability of there being any solid evidence to solve this case; ie DNA, evidence of drugging a victim, fibers left behind....

I fear that if Michelle is found dead somewhere in the area, it will remain a mystery and there will not be an arrest. JMO

JMO, unfortunately (for us) LE is keeping evidence they've gathered close to the vest. IMO that means we know less but they don't release their evidence until it's a matter of public record because why tip off the perp and his attorney at this point? All jmo of course.
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  #383  
Old 08-01-2012, 11:33 AM
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Is it fair that privacy laws trump justice? Is it fair that the innocent who don't know a crime is being committed in their close proximity, that their right to privacy take precedence over justice? If they aren't doing anything wrong, then there is nothing to hide. If there is nothing to hide, then who really cares about privacy when it could mean the difference between getting a killer or a raper or even a kidnapper off our streets! I most certainly would agree to give up my right to privacy under such a condition. It might save a future victim from becoming one! If they would simply change the law so that justice TRULY prevails, then there would be no continuing investigation because the answers would already have been provided. Meanwhile, here we sit, without resolution. So tell me, where is the REAL crime? IMO, it is in our laws, not our capabilities, except to say, we are capable of changing them, and until we do, that makes even our capabilities a crime. Kinda tips the ol' scales of justice all to one side, doesn't it? I ask you- where is the justice in that?
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  #384  
Old 08-01-2012, 11:55 AM
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But wouldn't you at least admit you discount all of the circumstantial evidence released thus far? It seems that if they found a murder weapon with Michelle's blood and Dale's fingerprints you may attempt to explain away how Dale could have been involved. That is how it SOMETIMES comes across. I know you like healthy debates but I still haven't seen any good theories on someone other than Dale nor have I seen ANY supporting evidence to clear Dale. If what Dale is saying is true....Michelle came and went as Dale described and Dale went directly to his parents AND stayed their the WHOLE time Michelle went missing he WOULDN'T be the PRIME suspect after dozens and dozens of LE reviewed the case. The reason he is the suspect is he lied over and over again IMO and his story doesn't hold water. Furthermore Michelle's normal activity ceases immediately upon arrival at Carter Glen and Dale has long periods of time where he cannot be accounted for. Dale is as stupid as they come if he thinks he can get away with MURDER but given his track record it's already a PROVEN fact he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
"But wouldn't you at least admit you discount all of the circumstantial evidence released thus far?"

What circumstantial evidence directly related to this case has been released and by whom? I know only of one which is DS is the last known person to have seen MP alive and that by itself is very little IMO.

"The reason he is the suspect is he lied over and over again IMO and his story doesn't hold water ..."

What lies? What story doesn't hold water? We have no idea what DS has told the investigators, do we? LE has made no statements about DS lying about anything. My guess is DS is saying nothing at this point, and we know that he initially cooperated with LE by answering questions, so may be he made statements that the police think are not true or contradictory and may be not, we don't know one way or the other, do we?

"I know you like healthy debates but I still haven't seen any good theories on someone other than Dale ...""

Either DS did it or someone else did it, that seems pretty much clear IMO. Just because we don't know that someone else did it doesn't mean DS did it, I have to believe you know that as well, it seems a pretty straightforward assumption to me. However as someone else said here before, theories are fine and theorizing is necessary if you're trying to make sense of things, however conclusion may differ and isn't that what a debate is all about? Do you want to hear something different then what you think or not? I do, or I would find the whole thing besides the point from a debate point of view.

"... nor have I seen ANY supporting evidence to clear Dale ..."

I need to assume DS innocent not the other way around, which is different from envisioning several scenarios where DS is the perp for the purpose of testing this or that theory, and ultimately I must have evidence to support a particular conclusion. In other words there is a basic difference for me between theories and conclusions. The standard for the first is whatever you think for the latter is whatever you can prove with evidence.

Last edited by Thor; 08-01-2012 at 12:52 PM.
  #385  
Old 08-01-2012, 11:59 AM
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If you were to do your homework, which, quite frankly, I am tired of doing for you, you have mentioned more than once, your opinion on what prompted LE and when Jr stopped cooperating, seemingly insinuating it was that he drew the line at the LDT. WRONG! Do your homework, would ya? But, in the real world, maybe that isn't something you REALLY need to do though. Just sayin'. JMO
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  #386  
Old 08-01-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bern View Post
Thank you for the response, but it doesn't answer my question. I am interested in the probability of there being any solid evidence to solve this case; ie DNA, evidence of drugging a victim, fibers left behind....

I fear that if Michelle is found dead somewhere in the area, it will remain a mystery and there will not be an arrest. JMO
It's always possible that when Michelle's body is found, there is some evidence that ties into what happened to her and possibly where. If she was wrapped in something before being disposed, hopefully it may lead back to the perpetrator of the crime.

I think they would also be able to determine cause of death if it was something along the lines of strangulation and/or blunt force trauma. I don't think they could determine if it is something "softer" like suffocation. If it was anything like a gunshot or a stabbing, then they may be able to determine that the murder did not occur at the condo, although I'm not too confident that they were able to do a whole CSI search of the condo. Perhaps the location of the body is also the crime scene. Which opens up other possibilities and leads.

And the location itself might lend some clues as to who would have been familiar with the area in which she was placed and whether there was any cellular phone activity in that area at the time of her disappearance.

Lots of new leads and evidence can be gained from finding Michelle IMO. Now if they could only do that.

MOO
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  #387  
Old 08-01-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pias View Post
Is it fair that privacy laws trump justice? Is it fair that the innocent who don't know a crime is being committed in their close proximity, that their right to privacy take precedence over justice? If they aren't doing anything wrong, then there is nothing to hide. If there is nothing to hide, then who really cares about privacy when it could mean the difference between getting a killer or a raper or even a kidnapper off our streets! I most certainly would agree to give up my right to privacy under such a condition. It might save a future victim from becoming one! If they would simply change the law so that justice TRULY prevails, then there would be no continuing investigation because the answers would already have been provided. Meanwhile, here we sit, without resolution. So tell me, where is the REAL crime? IMO, it is in our laws, not our capabilities, except to say, we are capable of changing them, and until we do, that makes even our capabilities a crime. Kinda tips the ol' scales of justice all to one side, doesn't it? I ask you- where is the justice in that?
If you could what would you change? Can you be specific?
  #388  
Old 08-01-2012, 12:51 PM
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... privacy laws... I would stipulate, that under suspicion of a violent crime which also leads to the responsibility for the safety of others, and to which extent, harm to someone seems apparent, whether past, present, or future, that swift justice prevail over a persons right to privacy. Those rights protecting our privacy are costing lives. I guess that is a small price to pay though, huh? I know. Silly me. That is too much to ask, isn't it? Well, I suppose that all depends on who you are and what you do and how it has or has not impacted your own walk in life. Experience(s) change(s) everything. How we perceive what is and isn't important. What is and isn't a priority. Experience, or the lack of it, is relative to perception. Sometimes it has to hit you before you feel the pain, and it is usually followed by a natural instinct to protect yourself from further harm, changing the course of your actions from your original intent. Something imposed upon you, or another, by a seen or unforeseen action.
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  #389  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:08 PM
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... anyway... In the end, I think it calls for selflessness...
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  #390  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:20 PM
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Let us imagine, for one moment, your child goes off to school, but never returns? It is now some time later, and your child is still missing? At what point, (a minute? Day? Week? Month? Year?) would you be willing to trade it all for what is behind door number 2? Yet you are powerless to do anything about it because of others rights to privacy. A law you felt just. A law you stood by. Does it feel just now?
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  #391  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:20 PM
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It's always possible that when Michelle's body is found, there is some evidence that ties into what happened to her and possibly where. If she was wrapped in something before being disposed, hopefully it may lead back to the perpetrator of the crime.

I think they would also be able to determine cause of death if it was something along the lines of strangulation and/or blunt force trauma. I don't think they could determine if it is something "softer" like suffocation. If it was anything like a gunshot or a stabbing, then they may be able to determine that the murder did not occur at the condo, although I'm not too confident that they were able to do a whole CSI search of the condo. Perhaps the location of the body is also the crime scene. Which opens up other possibilities and leads.

And the location itself might lend some clues as to who would have been familiar with the area in which she was placed and whether there was any cellular phone activity in that area at the time of her disappearance.

Lots of new leads and evidence can be gained from finding Michelle IMO. Now if they could only do that.

MOO
I couldn't agree more with you here, I think it would be very instructive if somebody here would be really familiar with forensic evidence and could shed a more precise light on how forensic science work in general and specifically on the viability of forensic evidence over a long period of time and under various exposures by outside elements.
  #392  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:35 PM
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I couldn't agree more with you here, I think it would be very instructive if somebody here would be really familiar with forensic evidence and could shed a more precise light on how forensic science work in general and specifically on the viability of forensic evidence over a long period of time and under various exposures by outside elements.
Do you suppose Michelle has been outside exposed to the elements all this time?

Btw, a long time ago you mentioned perhaps making up various trajectories...any word on that? TIA
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:36 PM
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I couldn't agree more with you here, I think it would be very instructive if somebody here would be really familiar with forensic evidence and could shed a more precise light on how forensic science work in general and specifically on the viability of forensic evidence over a long period of time and under various exposures by outside elements.
Ya, someone come lay it all out for us so the perp can be sure his tracks are well covered.... at least, that's what I heard you say... perhaps I need to get my hearing aid checked...
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  #394  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:42 PM
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Let us imagine, for one moment, your child goes off to school, but never returns? It is now some time later, and your child is still missing? At what point, (a minute? Day? Week? Month? Year?) would you be willing to trade it all for what is behind door number 2?
I'm sorry but I need to ask one more time and then I will give up ... It seems to me that you would like changes in our criminal justice system and that you feel the current system is inadequate in meeting victim's rights especially when it comes to privacy laws, evidentiary rules and so forth so
what would you change specifically in our laws? What does not work and what would you like to change it to specifically in order to achieve a more equitable system if that is your opinion?
  #395  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:48 PM
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I'm sorry but I need to ask one more time and then I will give up ... It seems to me that you would like changes in our criminal justice system and that you feel the current system is inadequate in meeting victim's rights especially when it comes to privacy laws, evidentiary rules and so forth so
what would you change specifically in our laws? What does not work and what would you like to change it to specifically in order to achieve a more equitable system if that is your opinion?
If I were to do so, would you see to it personally, that it became law?
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  #396  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:51 PM
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To which office shall I address it, and to whom?
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  #397  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:52 PM
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Ya, someone come lay it all out for us so the perp can be sure his tracks are well covered.... at least, that's what I heard you say... perhaps I need to get my hearing aid checked...
There is really no need to insult anyone or questioning their motives especially in this way ...
  #398  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:53 PM
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To which office shall I address it, and to whom?
Forget it, I'm sorry I asked.
  #399  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:54 PM
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Interesting how you grab my comment for your own with total disregard for its content and no relative input. Actions speak louder than words.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:56 PM
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There is really no need to insult anyone or questioning their motives especially in this way ...
But that's exactly what would happen.
Forensic experts have their place during a trial, not pre-trial on a message board for all the world, including the perp, to see.

JMO
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