FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #22

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Jazzmaster

It was a crime years in the making IMO. She knew his secret gay lovers, was receiving child support, he knew she was dating a better man, and he had no shot at winning her back. He may have even tried to buy her back if you know what I mean...She wouldn't do that for money...he told her her day was coming and he threatened to kidnap the kids. This was VERY planned IMO. Just saying' ALL JMO and theories for sleuthing purposes.

Ok Jazz, going to sleep soon, good night and be well.

[Jazzmaster]

Originally Posted by Thor

Ok Jazz, going to sleep soon, good night and be well.

Hope you have a good night Thor. May the force be with you

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Jazzmaster

Hope you have a good night Thor. May the force be with you

LOL

[Cblewife]

Originally Posted by Pias

you might ask on the family site. It is even possible they were both inside and out (Inside on the rear b/c of a rear wiper, outside on the sides).

My windows are tinted fairly dark and decals do not show through. Anything I want to be visible must be placed on the outside of my vehicle.

[Cblewife]

Originally Posted by Pias

I wouldn't get all sure fired up that the Hummer was ever in the garage. It would only take moments to strip the decals. It would take more time and draw more attention to move the Hummer than would be worth the effort, considering. I likely doubt it was anywhere but at the curb to the side of the condo, and out of there. Besides, IF Dale is the perp, I haven't really seen where he's ever been too concerned about who might be watching before he acts, so based, in part, on that, and several other considerations, it is JMO it is possible.

BBM - I agree. I've always thought that there was someone else there when Michelle arrived, but I'm on the fence of just who it was. The least suspicious way of moving the hummer would be to have another female, perhaps wearing Michelle's hoodie, get in it and leave. There are plenty of out of the way spots, including garages that would support her hummer, where the decals could have been removed after leaving Dales. Obviously just my thoughts.

[missingm]

Originally Posted by Cblewife

BBM - I agree. I've always thought that there was someone else there when Michelle arrived, but I'm on the fence of just who it was. The least suspicious way of moving the hummer would be to have another female, perhaps wearing Michelle's hoodie, get in it and leave. There are plenty of out of the way spots, including garages that would support her hummer, where the decals could have been removed after leaving Dales. Obviously just my thoughts.

Does anyone have a link or verified inside information as to how tinted the front windows were? They very well could have been dark enough to hide anyone inside. Many people over tint the front windows well beyond the legal limit. Michelle may have felt more secure with people not knowing that a single pretty woman was driving such a nice car.

[What'sThatClue]

Originally Posted by missingm

Does anyone have a link or verified inside information as to how tinted the front windows were? They very well could have been dark enough to hide anyone inside. Many people over tint the front windows well beyond the legal limit. Michelle may have felt more secure with people not knowing that a single pretty woman was driving such a nice car.

The front windows were not dark tinted.

Lots of images out there, but here's a couple:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...Parkers_Hummer

Same image: http://www.wftv.com/news/news/police...g-woman/nFg3d/

[What'sThatClue]

Anyone local been to Obrien's pub in Orlando lately? I could have sworn I saw Dale there not too long ago but the guy I saw was heavier (unless Dale has gained weight recently). Just wondering if that's a hang-out or something and maybe areas near Obrien's/Universal should be searched.

All JMO, of course.

[What'sThatClue]

Originally Posted by Thor

Yes agreed, A & D with D being the easiest by far ... but wait ... that assumes D can clear the supporting beams, right? And therefore doesn't it all bring us to the initial question of what is the relationship of the Hummer to the garage? And therefore we need the exact measurements so that that we can really answer your question "which would be easier to open in a closed garage?" Which I would slightly change to "which would be easier to open in THIS garage?". Your turn ...

What supporting beams? I haven't seen any on photos of the garage, and down here it's kinda unusual to have supporting beams inside a garage. Just wondering if you saw that somewhere?

TIA

[Thor]

Originally Posted by What'sThatClue

What supporting beams? I haven't seen any on photos of the garage, and down here it's kinda unusual to have supporting beams inside a garage. Just wondering if you saw that somewhere?

TIA

I think we have discussed this at nausea, it was something I was wandering in relation to some theories in here and did not intend it to make it a topic of such heated debate yesterday ... it really interests me to ascertain the exact measurements of the garage but expect it to be inconclusive after all. If I find something of consequence I will post it.

[Pias]

Originally Posted by What'sThatClue

Anyone local been to Obrien's pub in Orlando lately? I could have sworn I saw Dale there not too long ago but the guy I saw was heavier (unless Dale has gained weight recently). Just wondering if that's a hang-out or something and maybe areas near Obrien's/Universal should be searched.

All JMO, of course.

Roger that. I don't live there, but I do recall something about O'Brien's, but I think it was a different one?

[Spice]

Originally Posted by Reality Orlando

But, do you really think that many people would notice something like that? Especially in Orlando? Window stickers are pretty tame compared to wrapped vehicles. Plus, half the people driving are on their cell phones and aren't even paying attention to traffic let alone window decals . I know I've seen the hummer at least a couple times around home but don't remember ever registering those decals. The only reason I think I even noticed her Hummer early on is because we live in a very rural area more known for pickups, mudders and air boats and the second time I was like, huh, another Hummer out here?

I hear you but the car would be more noticeable with the stickers than without. Why would he risk it? No matter how common the car is or how distracted people are the stickers would make it stand out. It's like wearing a bright color versus a dark one while committing a crime. I don't believe for a second that he drove that car with the giant glow stickers on it after hurting her. Way too risky.

[Jazzmaster]

Originally Posted by Pias

Roger that. I don't live there, but I do recall something about O'Brien's, but I think it was a different one?

Who saw Dale at Obrien's was it Thor? I am confused...TIA

[Sparky]

Anyone going this year? Aug 23-26 2012

http://www.starwarscelebration.com/

[Spice]

Originally Posted by Pias

... privacy laws... I would stipulate, that under suspicion of a violent crime which also leads to the responsibility for the safety of others, and to which extent, harm to someone seems apparent, whether past, present, or future, that swift justice prevail over a persons right to privacy. Those rights protecting our privacy are costing lives. I guess that is a small price to pay though, huh? I know. Silly me. That is too much to ask, isn't it? Well, I suppose that all depends on who you are and what you do and how it has or has not impacted your own walk in life. Experience(s) change(s) everything.

I am sorry but I totally disagree, and although I thoroughly disagree with Thor about 1,000 percent of the time the snark you are directing toward him is downright mean at this point.

That being said, suggesting that we should give our right to privacy up for our safety is dangerous. Do you know how many people are wrongly convicted in this country and sometimes put to death? Do you know that most of those people are people of color? Our "rights" protect us from many things and being hysterical in the face of the dark side of human nature is a very slippery slope. No government agency should have that much power because just as we have murderers and racists we have rogue law enforcement and as seen in the Casey Anthony case, ridiculous juries.

There are a plethora of ways to work toward a less violent and murderous society and giving up rights is not one of them. Laws protecting women from their abusive spouses is a start. Michelle was denied a restraining order. Less hatred, disrespect, and oversexualizing of women is another, access to mental health care and less stigmatizing ideas about seeking help, less glorification of violence. I could go on and on. We need to be more proactive instead of reactive.

I am certain that Dale is guilty as sin and should pay for his crime and I believe he will. I also believe in his right to a fair trail, because his right to a fair trial is YOUR right to a fair trial and all that comes along with ensuring such a process.

I am for the victim and not the murderer but I am also a fan of our often frustrating justice system. I wouldn't want to be tried for murder in China. Would you? People don't have a whole lot of privacy there.

[What'sThatClue]

Originally Posted by Jazzmaster

Who saw Dale at Obrien's was it Thor? I am confused...TIA

It was me, but I wasn't sure because the guy was heavier. I thought Dale was fairly thin, so it probably wasn't him. Still, I thought the surrounding area might be a good place to search, just in case.

[What'sThatClue]

Originally Posted by Sparky

Anyone going this year? Aug 23-26 2012

http://www.starwarscelebration.com/

I'm willing to go and hand out missing flyers....

[Pias]

Originally Posted by Spice

I am sorry but I totally disagree, and although I thoroughly disagree with Thor about 1,000 percent of the time the snark you are directing toward him is downright mean at this point.

That being said, suggesting that we should give our right to privacy up for our safety is dangerous. Do you know how many people are wrongly convicted in this country and sometimes put to death? Do you know that most of those people are people of color? Our "rights" protect us from many things and being hysterical in the face of the dark side of human nature is a very slippery slope. No government agency should have that much power because just as we have murderers and racists we have rogue law enforcement and as seen in the Casey Anthony case, ridiculous juries.

There are a plethora of ways to work toward a less violent and murderous society and giving up rights is not one of them. Laws protecting women from their abusive spouses is a start. Michelle was denied a restraining order. Less hatred, disrespect, and oversexualizing of women is another, access to mental health care and less stigmatizing ideas about seeking help, less glorification of violence. I could go on and on. We need to be more proactive instead of reactive.

I am certain that Dale is guilty as sin and should pay for his crime and I believe he will. I also believe in his right to a fair trail, because his right to a fair trial is YOUR right to a fair trial and all that comes along with ensuring such a process.

I am for the victim and not the murderer but I am also a fan of our often frustrating justice system. I wouldn't want to be tried for murder in China. Would you? People don't have a whole lot of privacy there.

It wasn't directed at Thor at all, except that it was us discussing the subject. As for any attitude, I mean it will never work and it frustrates me because the majority would never go for it, as in, it is silly of me to think it would ever work. Sorry to Thor if it was taken personally, even though he never mentioned that he did. I don't know if the link I provided is anything like what they do in China. I also do not see how this technology defies justice because it seems to eliminate a lot of guess work that would otherwise be required, assembling a suspect's list and poking into a lot of people's business that have nothing to do with it. It's still an invasion, it is just a different group and process, but still an invasion, to me, so I happen to be of the minority opinion that getting the perp swiftly IS due justice. Perhaps people would be less likely to commit such acts of violence, but one thing seems certain, the right people would be where they should be a lot faster. Do the crime, do the time. Why imprison the wrong person? Again. Either way you investigate it, you are going to invade people's privacy.

[Spice]

Originally Posted by Pias

It wasn't directed at Thor at all, except that it was us discussing the subject. As for any attitude, I mean it will never work and it frustrates me because the majority would never go for it, as in, it is silly of me to think it would ever work. Sorry to Thor if it was taken personally, even though he never mentioned that he did. I don't know if the link I provided is anything like what they do in China. I also do not see how this technology defies justice because it seems to eliminate a lot of guess work that would otherwise be required, assembling a suspect's list and poking into a lot of people's business that have nothing to do with it. It's still an invasion, it is just a different group and process, but still an invasion, to me, so I happen to be of the minority opinion that getting the perp swiftly IS due justice. Perhaps people would be less likely to commit such acts of violence, but one thing seems certain, the right people would be where they should be a lot faster. Do the crime, do the time. Why imprison the wrong person? Again. Either way you investigate it, you are going to invade people's privacy.

He didn't mention anything. I noticed it in a few posts and with all of his claiming that differing opinions are not welcome here, which they are, I found the extra snark supportive of his idea.

In any event, I agree with you that getting to the perp swiftly is due justice, what I may not agree with is to what extent are you suggesting that Americans should "give up" their right to privacy to do so?

"Do the crime do the time" is all well and good but our system, like no other country, is set up by nature to protect the innocent from being wrongly convicted. Unfortunately, there is a cost to that that none of us like, but it is necessary, because one innocent rotting in jail or being executed on death row is one too many. Or maybe some believe that one murderer getting away with it is one too many and are willing to have the pendulum swing the other way. It all depends on where you are coming from I guess.

Even with all of the protections set up in the system as it stands, so many people have been wrongly convicted of murder and actually paid for it with their lives. Some are still getting released after decades to this very day.

Convictions should come from evidence, collected and presented in a way that represents our democracy. Loosening the reigns on our rights is tunnel vision in my opinion and a very slippery slope. I would be interesting to read the specific laws that you would like to see overturned in favor of less privacy. Not being snarky, I really am curious. Maybe some could afford to be overturned, or not if they would give a despotic and orwellian arm to those in power.

I am not suggesting that LE should not have what is available to them to get their suspect in a timely manner. The question is to what level and when do we cross the line into extreme violation? Where do we draw the line in that respect?

I am simply stating that giving up rights is a serious matter and while you may be willing to do so, I certainly am not, but that does not mean that I am not an advocate of the victim and their families, I am. I would have fought tooth and nail for Michelle to receive that restraining order. There is something definitely wrong with the fact that this guy may very well have been involved in not one, but three deaths.

I'm wondering what laws or societal ideologies may have been built in to contribute to that and what can we do to change it? How could Michelle have been more protected to begin with? And what can we change that would help LE gather more evidence on Dale at this point. I am assuming that they have a lot that we don't know about already as they are very confident that he is their one and only suspect. ( I agree) I think that it is a safe assumption that they are waiting to prosecute until they find Michelle, and no privacy law would help with that that I know of. They didn't arrest Scott until Laci and Connor had surfaced and they never claimed to have anything more than circumstantial evidence on him.

[Pias]

Originally Posted by Spice

He didn't mention anything. I noticed it in a few posts and with all of his claiming that differing opinions are not welcome here, which they are, I found the extra snark supportive of his idea.

In any event, I agree with you that getting to the perp swiftly is due justice, what I may not agree with is to what extent are you suggesting that Americans should "give up" their right to privacy to do so?

"Do the crime do the time" is all well and good but our system, like no other country, is set up by nature to protect the innocent from being wrongly convicted. Unfortunately, there is a cost to that that none of us like, but it is necessary, because one innocent rotting in jail or being executed on death row is one too many. Or maybe some believe that one murderer getting away with it is one too many and are willing to have the pendulum swing the other way. It all depends on where you are coming from I guess.

Even with all of the protections set up in the system as it stands, so many people have been wrongly convicted of murder and actually paid for it with their lives. Some are still getting released after decades to this very day.

Convictions should come from evidence, collected and presented in a way that represents our democracy. Loosening the reigns on our rights is tunnel vision in my opinion and a very slippery slope. I would be interesting to read the specific laws that you would like to see overturned in favor of less privacy. Not being snarky, I really am curious. Maybe some could afford to be overturned, or not if they would give a despotic and orwellian arm to those in power.

I am not suggesting that LE should not have what is available to them to get their suspect in a timely manner. The question is to what level and when do we cross the line into extreme violation? Where do we draw the line in that respect?

I am simply stating that giving up rights is a serious matter and while you may be willing to do so, I certainly am not, but that does not mean that I am not an advocate of the victim and their families, I am. I would have fought tooth and nail for Michelle to receive that restraining order. There is something definitely wrong with the fact that this guy may very well have been involved in not one, but three deaths.

I'm wondering what laws or societal ideologies may have been built in to contribute to that and what can we do to change it? How could Michelle have been more protected to begin with? And what can we change that would help LE gather more evidence on Dale at this point. I am assuming that they have a lot that we don't know about already as they are very confident that he is their one and only suspect. ( I agree) I think that it is a safe assumption that they are waiting to prosecute until they find Michelle, and no privacy law would help with that that I know of. They didn't arrest Scott until Laci and Connor had surfaced and they never claimed to have anything more than circumstantial evidence on him.

I understand your position, and the benefit of Proactive, but I feel it takes more than just being proactive, and I see how this technology would be very effective. It would not eliminate or replace collection of evidence or right to trial. It would eliminate a lot of the guessing about who, not so much about motive, for example, which is key in determining degree of punishment. The other point is, as in Michelle's case, we would already have the body, and THAT is why it frustrates me so! It wouldn't be about IF Dale did it. We would already have WHO, no matter WHO that WHO is! There would be no Dale bashing cuz there would be no thread here like the one we have at least, and Thor and I would have never bumped into conversation any more than you and I. This is not personal, though I could see why you might take it that way, but what is really is, is to say that we are only here, in this moment, having this conversation, because this technology isn't in use. As for the laws that would be changed, it is all in that web page I provided the link to, and since it already says it, if you want to know how I would change things, well then, there you have it, because I would agree to the proposal. It is well written and thought out by someone who obviously took their time to do their research. There is nothing there that I could add or take away, or would even want to.

[Pias]

Lines. We all draw them. It is where that makes all the difference. Sometimes it is an independent and personal line, and sometimes it is a collective one and not all agree with where it has been drawn, but are forced to accept it by rule of majority. Then there are those who cross the line of no return, such as those who feel they have the right to take the life of another, and those who choose not to tell what they know, despite the fact that it is legally and morally wrong according to the majority. This group still has a choice. Then there are still others who dare to cross the line for the sake of positive change and the everlasting hope and possibility that the majority sees the light, because you are helpless without them but a force with them and those lines can be moved!

[Spice]

Originally Posted by Pias

Lines. We all draw them. It is where that makes all the difference. Sometimes it is an independent and personal line, and sometimes it is a collective one and not all agree with where it has been drawn, but are forced to accept it by rule of majority. Then there are those who cross the line of no return, such as those who feel they have the right to take the life of another, and those who choose not to tell what they know, despite the fact that it is legally and morally wrong according to the majority. This group still has a choice. Then there are still others who dare to cross the line for the sake of positive change and the everlasting hope and possibility that the majority sees the light, because you are helpless without them but a force with them and those lines can be moved!

I very much agree. I think we all can agree that murder is morally wrong....but the moral compass in this country is not in agreement about A LOT of things and the majority is most definitely not always correct.

I believe in changing things, I believe in progress and not maintaining the status quo and the familiar just for the sake of it. Unfortunately common sense and the change for the collective greater good is not the norm. We legislate emotion constantly and emotions are not always based in fact.

I am reading through your link. I haven't finished so I cannot yet comment but it is interesting stuff to ponder. It's been an interesting debate but I'll back out of this one for now so that we don't take the attention off of Michelle and who harmed her.

[Pias]

Originally Posted by Spice

I very much agree. I think we all can agree that murder is morally wrong....but the moral compass in this country is not in agreement about A LOT of things and the majority is most definitely not always correct.

I believe in changing things, I believe in progress and not maintaining the status quo and the familiar just for the sake of it. Unfortunately common sense and the change for the collective greater good is not the norm. We legislate emotion constantly and emotions are not always based in fact.

I am reading through your link. I haven't finished so I cannot yet comment but it is interesting stuff to ponder. It's been an interesting debate but I'll back out of this one for now so that we don't take the attention off of Michelle and who harmed her.

BBM
It is the belief that enough like minded people will take the time to read it, like you are. I mean, REALLY READ IT. It is a lot of reading, I give you that, but on the flip side, we have all been here longer, trying to figure it all out, than the time it takes to read that site, and if, after reading it, you can see how privacy is an issue no matter how you investigate, and by the power of reason, and can see how this could be a useful tool, then it only takes a moment more to support it. Together we CAN make change ::

Supporting this change not only brings attention to Michelle's case, but a multitude with it.

[What'sThatClue]

Originally Posted by Thor

If Dale is the perp is almost inconceivable this was planned. IMO

Why do you think so?

It's not inconceivable to me that this was planned.

IMO, a person would have to know the Prime Suspect very well or have information on the crime in order to be absolutely sure it's inconceivable that this was planned. Example, if it were my close family member or good friend I might say that but if it were, say, my neighbor I could never be absolutely sure. And it would still be up in the air because no one ever knows what another person is thinking or planning unless that person tells them. JMO

I'm just wondering what you based your opinion on, since it was so strongly worded.

TIA

[Pias]

How can I help? What can I do? I want to help but I don't know how.

http://cruci34.angelfire.com/Weneedtodomore.html

Won't you (all) help bring Michelle home and others like her?

Please make time to take time and you can. Thank you.

I'd like to add a quote from the page:

We expect those who read this page are interested in helping solve the problem.
Educate yourself and use the links to the petition to ask the media to inform the public
and contact our elected officials
Then PLEASE SHARE this info with everyone you can, in any way you can