Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Missing!! > Missing but not forgotten Discussion

Notices

Missing but not forgotten Discussion This Forum is for case discussion and opinion regarding all missing persons who have not been forgotten despite the number of years they have been missing. Many members have loved ones here & need your help to bring them home!


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #401  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:58 PM
What'sThatClue's Avatar
What'sThatClue What'sThatClue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,479
Trajectories, anyone?
Times, miles, distances...anything?

ETA, I know we've been over this before (over and over in earlier threads) but does anyone have anything new to add?
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to What'sThatClue For This Useful Post:
  #402  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:59 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor View Post
There is really no need to insult anyone or questioning their motives especially in this way ...
Sorry. You are right. I should have put it this way. Can you please explain the benefits, and for whom they are? We are listening.
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following User Says Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #403  
Old 08-01-2012, 02:19 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by What'sThatClue View Post
Do you suppose Michelle has been outside exposed to the elements all this time?

Btw, a long time ago you mentioned perhaps making up various trajectories...any word on that? TIA
IMO Elements are at work anywhere a body would be, whether the body is buried or not, hidden somewhere on the surface or beneath it, if that is what you meant by your question. Air, water, chemical corrosion, body decomposition ... you name it, are factors that may effect forensic gathering, in any case I'm certainly not a forensic expert and that is why somebody with better experience in this field would know better and perhaps explain it more correctly, or conversely one can simply read up on the issue assuming one has the time and/or the inclination to do so.
  #404  
Old 08-01-2012, 02:20 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pias View Post
Sorry. You are right. I should have put it this way. Can you please explain the benefits, and for whom they are? We are listening.
Benefits of what? Better understanding forensic science?
  #405  
Old 08-01-2012, 02:23 PM
What'sThatClue's Avatar
What'sThatClue What'sThatClue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor View Post
IMO Elements are at work anywhere a body would be, whether the body is buried or not, hidden somewhere on the surface or beneath it, if that is what you meant by your question. Air, water, chemical corrosion, body decomposition ... you name it, are factors that may effect forensic gathering, in any case I'm certainly not a forensic expert and that is why somebody with better experience in this field would know better and perhaps explain it more correctly, or conversely one can simply read up on the issue assuming one has the time and/or the inclination to do so.

Well, you did refer to "outside elements" in your post.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor View Post
I couldn't agree more with you here, I think it would be very instructive if somebody here would be really familiar with forensic evidence and could shed a more precise light on how forensic science work in general and specifically on the viability of forensic evidence over a long period of time and under various exposures by outside elements.
The Following User Says Thank You to What'sThatClue For This Useful Post:
  #406  
Old 08-01-2012, 02:28 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by What'sThatClue View Post
Well, you did refer to "outside elements" in your post.
Outside elements not intrinsic to the body itself, not outside as in the open air vs. buried beneath the earth or hidden within a particular enclosure on the surface. Example ... any pollutants that come in contact with a body, such as chemicals in the air or in the water that sips underneath the ground to name two of the most obvious ones out of so many, are outside elements since they are not necessarily part of the body in its natural state but rather interacting with it ... and so on.

Last edited by Thor; 08-01-2012 at 03:09 PM.
  #407  
Old 08-01-2012, 02:51 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
Here is what you asked for, more specifically. Hope this helps. No really. I hope it does!
http://cruci34.angelfire.com/Weneedtodomore.html

Note that Michelle is listed specifically as one of the people this would benefit.
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!

Last edited by Pias; 08-01-2012 at 03:03 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #408  
Old 08-01-2012, 03:01 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pias View Post
Here is what you asked for, more specifically. Hope this helps. No really. I hope it does!
http://cruci34.angelfire.com/Weneedtodomore.html
Thank you for the link, I took a quick look at it but I have to go out now and I will revisit that page later. If you want my opinion ask for it or otherwise I'll keep it to myself.

Last edited by Thor; 08-01-2012 at 03:18 PM.
  #409  
Old 08-01-2012, 04:25 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by What'sThatClue View Post
Trajectories, anyone?
Times, miles, distances...anything?

ETA, I know we've been over this before (over and over in earlier threads) but does anyone have anything new to add?
I was at some point intending to see if I could find info on the measurements of DS's garage and particularly about its relationship to the size of the hummer and the position of the inside door leading to the condo's dwelling but then I got sidetracked by other considerations, I'll see if I can revisit that issue when I can devote some real time to it since it involves a lot of new thinking and research.

Last edited by Thor; 08-01-2012 at 04:47 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Thor For This Useful Post:
  #410  
Old 08-01-2012, 04:33 PM
Skully's Avatar
Skully Skully is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 5,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by What'sThatClue View Post
Trajectories, anyone?
Times, miles, distances...anything?

ETA, I know we've been over this before (over and over in earlier threads) but does anyone have anything new to add?
I posted a link somewhere I think on this thread, could be the one before this one; but it broke down the % of place bodies were found. IIRC like 80% of perps buried bodies near a tree, or a log. I don't know why, maybe a marker for them if they wanted to keep an eye on the place, dont' know. Men then to bury bodies, woman will tend to put them in water. Woman and men both dismember but this is to make it easier to carry and disgard a larger body. Most bodies are found within a 3 to 5 mile radias, but many are no more than feet to a mile in some cases.

If I was to guess, and this is only a guess, no matter who would have killed her, I don't think she is not far from where the hummer was found. I tend to feel she is is buried or in a very shallow grave and it will be near some kind of landmark near by, like a tree or fence. This is only because of the stats I have read about and what men tend to do when getting rid of a body. Not for any other reason. I am still not 100% sold on the fact she is dead. It gets harder with each month, the probabilty of her being alive goes down, but it is not out of the question yet. I am entiled to my "HOPE" that she is still alive and one day will come home. I know it is not a popular belief, but still JMO.
__________________
Your Dream must be greater than your fear!
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Skully For This Useful Post:
  #411  
Old 08-01-2012, 04:39 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor View Post
I was at some point intending to see if I could find info on the measurements of DS's garage and particularly about it's relationship to the size of the hummer and the position of the inside door leading to the condo's dwelling but then I got sidetracked by other considerations, I'll see if I can revisit that issue when I can devote some real time to it since it involves a lot of new thinking and research.
It really doesn't involve all that much time and research since that research has already been done and publicly posted. Try some search terms and you should zero in on them as fast as your processor can fly!
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #412  
Old 08-01-2012, 04:55 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
I wouldn't get all sure fired up that the Hummer was ever in the garage. It would only take moments to strip the decals. It would take more time and draw more attention to move the Hummer than would be worth the effort, considering. I likely doubt it was anywhere but at the curb to the side of the condo, and out of there. Besides, IF Dale is the perp, I haven't really seen where he's ever been too concerned about who might be watching before he acts, so based, in part, on that, and several other considerations, it is JMO it is possible.
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #413  
Old 08-01-2012, 04:56 PM
What'sThatClue's Avatar
What'sThatClue What'sThatClue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pias View Post
It really doesn't involve all that much time and research since that research has already been done and publicly posted. Try some search terms and you should zero in on them as fast as your processor can fly!
Yes, might save a lot of time.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to What'sThatClue For This Useful Post:
  #414  
Old 08-01-2012, 05:03 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pias View Post
It really doesn't involve all that much time and research since that research has already been done and publicly posted. Try some search terms and you should zero in on them as fast as your processor can fly!
Nope, I couldn't find that info right now... if you can provide a link that would be helpful if not I'll eventually find that info on my own. Thank you regardless.
  #415  
Old 08-01-2012, 05:17 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pias View Post
I wouldn't get all sure fired up that the Hummer was ever in the garage. It would only take moments to strip the decals. It would take more time and draw more attention to move the Hummer than would be worth the effort, considering. I likely doubt it was anywhere but at the curb to the side of the condo, and out of there. Besides, IF Dale is the perp, I haven't really seen where he's ever been too concerned about who might be watching before he acts, so based, in part, on that, and several other considerations, it is JMO it is possible.
Yes I agree, I don't think the Hummer was ever in the garage but some here think so and that might very well be the case. It is always a good idea IMO to explore a particular theory by its factual foundations to the extent that one can, if for no other reason as to exclude it ... assuming one can find enough evidence to arrive to a conclusion one way or the other. Still, worth the effort if one chooses to.

Last edited by Thor; 08-01-2012 at 05:34 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Thor For This Useful Post:
  #416  
Old 08-01-2012, 05:52 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/att...8&d=1326204738
This will help with the floor plan. SF can either be found with a call or an online search, whichever you trust to be more accurate, or better fits your needs. Likewise with the specs on a Hummer of the same year, and model as Michelle's. I hope that helps.
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #417  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:27 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pias View Post
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/att...8&d=1326204738
This will help with the floor plan. SF can either be found with a call or an online search, whichever you trust to be more accurate, or better fits your needs. Likewise with the specs on a Hummer of the same year, and model as Michelle's. I hope that helps.
Thank you for your efforts, I really appreciate it, but the floor plans have no measurements and no details about the actual internal layout of the garage especially whether or not there are any beams in the middle (almost surely though). Outside of someone having actually taken a look up-close at a similar unit, best bet would be to take a look at the real estate offerings and see if a unit of the same kind is for sale/rent in that complex or straight out of the building department at City Hall.
The Following User Says Thank You to Thor For This Useful Post:
  #418  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:46 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
It is 1,699 sf. But you probably want to look that up for yourself, and while you are there, you could call the phone number listed to obtain more information. That information is already available through prior investigation and posts by members of WS, and is likewise available in forum format as well.
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #419  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:56 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
Perhaps you can imagine Dale's truck as it is seen parked in his garage, very near the date Michelle goes missing, perhaps look up the specs on a truck just like his, then compare the specs of the Hummer, if that Might better help you reach any conclusions as to how or whether it might fit. A Hummer will fit in a standard size garage. Dale's truck fits in his garage. Now, go do the math. It's kinda like one of those puzzles where you don't quite have all the information, but you can still solve it by deduction. Or, of course, just go read what has already been written. Either way. It probably took me longer to type this, than it would take for you to gather this info and reach an educated conclusion
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #420  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:07 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
The floor plan served a purpose as to layout. Jr's truck having been in the garage provides the key to the answers you are looking for by reason of deduction, do they not? Perhaps you could provide us with specs on both similar vehicles and we can work this out together.
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #421  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:22 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pias View Post
Perhaps you can imagine Dale's truck as it is seen parked in his garage, very near the date Michelle goes missing, perhaps look up the specs on a truck just like his, then compare the specs of the Hummer, if that Might better help you reach any conclusions as to how or whether it might fit. A Hummer will fit in a standard size garage. Dale's truck fits in his garage. Now, go do the math. It's kinda like one of those puzzles where you don't quite have all the information, but you can still solve it by deduction. Or, of course, just go read what has already been written. Either way. It probably took me longer to type this, than it would take for you to gather this info and reach an educated conclusion
Sure it makes sense that if the van fits so does the Hummer, assuming a similar size ... but I'm not sure about size here, besides the issue here is not just whether the Hummer fits or not, it probably does (it's a 2-car garage after all), but the relationship of the Hummer with the garage space, example ... can you open the trunk of the Hummer if that garage door is closed? How deep is the garage? What about the inside door? Can you open it with the Hummer inside, and if you can how far can you open it if not all the way? Enough for Ds to carry MP's body through it? And I could go on ... that is why exact measurements are crucial here.
The Following User Says Thank You to Thor For This Useful Post:
  #422  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:31 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor View Post
Sure it makes sense that if the van fits so does the Hummer, assuming a similar size ... but I'm not sure about size here, besides the issue here is not just whether the Hummer fits or not, it probably does (it's a 2-car garage after all), but the relationship of the Hummer with the garage space, example ... can you open the trunk of the Hummer if that garage door is closed? How deep is the garage? What about the inside door? Can you open it with the Hummer inside, and if you can how far can you open it if not all the way? Enough for Ds to carry MP's body through it? And I could go on ... that is why exact measurements are crucial here.
Brilliant! And I'm glad you asked and I will answer you with a question. Which would be easier to open in a closed garage?
A. The cover to the bed of the truck
B. The rear door to the Hummer
C. The rear door to the van
D. Why worry about a rear door that is inaccessible, when you have side doors?

I will answer both A and D.
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #423  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:43 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
Since you did not specify which doors exactly that it was that you were referring to, lets cover them all.

Again, lets apply some logic. Garage entry doors open INTO the house, not out of it (also as shown in the floor plan), and you can see by design, there is no way to impede the area unless you simply quit using the upstairs of your house AND quit doing laundry there. Rather unlikely. Golly, a little logic can go a long way. So now, it is a long standing tradition to carry a bride over the threshold, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here, based on all of these logical deductions as based upon limited information and say that it was possible that a person capable of doing so, could have carried a person through that doorway on that very day. And as for the side door of the vehicles, there seemed to be plenty of room available on at least one side by looking at the photo of Dale standing in the garage by his truck. One door is all you need, if you even need that. Dale does have a covered bed. And lastly, why worry about doors that might be harder to use, when you have a choice of so many?
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!

Last edited by Pias; 08-01-2012 at 08:09 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
  #424  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:56 PM
Thor's Avatar
Thor Thor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pias View Post
Brilliant! And I'm glad you asked and I will answer you with a question. Which would be easier to open in a closed garage?
A. The cover to the bed of the truck
B. The rear door to the Hummer
C. The rear door to the van
D. Why worry about a rear door that is inaccessible, when you have side doors?


I will answer both A and D.
Yes agreed, A & D with D being the easiest by far ... but wait ... that assumes D can clear the supporting beams, right? And therefore doesn't it all bring us to the initial question of what is the relationship of the Hummer to the garage? And therefore we need the exact measurements so that that we can really answer your question "which would be easier to open in a closed garage?" Which I would slightly change to "which would be easier to open in THIS garage?". Your turn ...

Last edited by Thor; 08-01-2012 at 08:19 PM.
  #425  
Old 08-01-2012, 08:17 PM
Pias Pias is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 584
There are many ways to carry a person in your arms, including over your shoulder, under your arm, or across them, dragging, and probably numerous other ways I have failed to mention. I'm thinking, under the circumstances, one really wouldn't care HOW they carried you or got you in there, just that they did.
__________________
One grain of sand does not make a desert
One drop of water does not make an ocean
Nor one star a universe
But one person CAN make a difference!
The Following User Says Thank You to Pias For This Useful Post:
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #17 imamaze Missing but not forgotten Discussion 719 01-22-2012 10:38 AM
FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #16 imamaze Missing but not forgotten Discussion 945 01-09-2012 07:09 PM
FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #13 imamaze Missing but not forgotten Discussion 628 12-14-2011 09:33 PM
FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #11 imamaze Missing but not forgotten Discussion 598 12-11-2011 08:46 AM
FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #8 imamaze Missing but not forgotten Discussion 559 12-06-2011 11:51 PM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:09 PM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!