NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#28

[LauraMars]

Also I have a feeling it was MaverickAu from early days, who spoke about the advice from the BC's councellor to do the '15 minutes a night discussion'. I could be wrong there, but whoever it was, that's obviously another rumour which appears to have turned out to be true. If it was MaverickAu, he seems to have been pretty spot on with many things he said way back at the beginning.

Sorry can't search to confirm at the moment.

[Nads]

Originally Posted by Fuskier

It had crossed my mind before that a hypothetical scenario could have been that Allison was unconscious when put in the car, which travelled up around Rafting road. She woke up unexpectedly, tried to escape, was caught - hence the 2 piercing screams and the third muffled scream. Was she murdered around there? Then placed in the car again? Just further speculation. The unexplained screams still bother me as they were night piercing screams of someone in imminent danger. The screams heard were a female voice.

And perhaps her head was clonked against the wheel arch and she bled?

[Bayside]

April 22, 2012

Mr Baden-Clay was involved in an accident on the way to Indooroopilly police station. Police allege there no brake marks at the scene and Mr Baden-Clay refused to answer questions about the crash.

They allege the crash was staged to "mask injuries or to cause self-injury".


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1yx9Avp6t

[Isabellnecessary]

Originally Posted by Nads

And perhaps her head was clonked against the wheel arch and she bled?

The report says that there's only a smear of blood and below that, 'a drop'.

This doesn't match with blood dripping down doors and wheel arches covered in luminol imo.

[Bayside]

Police examine the Baden-Clay's Holden Captiva SUV, which they had owned for eight weeks.

They allegedly found a "blood smear" in the rear of the vehicle and a strand of blonde hair.

Investigators alleged that the smear was "a contact smear" and resulted in "a further droplet of blood falling below the smear onto the floor of the vehicle". Police allege the blood was identified as Mrs Baden-Clay's, but examinations into the hair were continuing.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1yx9WwePR

[BJsleuth]

Fuskier, do you know how far from the house the screams were heard?

[Fuskier]

Originally Posted by GlobeArtichoke

And there it is - the known shock value these images present to anyone without the knowledge of how the marks may have come about. The QPS know full well it would illicit strong responses. In combination with GBC's saccharine SMSes to Allison, they are baiting further informants to come forward, IMO.

Without the release of such information and images, it all can become 'sanitized'. Seeing and hearing information 'grounds' the murder and keeps it 'real' for us. This may help elicit further information from locals who may have decided not to say anything about what they have known, seen or heard. Please call Crimestoppers if you have anything that you may know, have seen or have heard that may help the Police.

[Bayside]

Mr Baden-Clay was asked to give a formal statement as part of the missing person investigation.

Police said he obtained legal advice and declined to be formally interviewed.

Police had noticed scratches on Mr Baden-Clay's right side cheek, which were photographed by scenes of crimes officers.

Mr Baden-Clay told the officer the scratches were caused by an old shaver.

In the documents, police said they appeared to be scratches "similar to scratches made by fingernails as they are not straight or clean cuts normally made by a sharp razor blade".


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1yxABuS13

[Bayside]

Mr Baden-Clay's parents, Nigel and Elaine, gave "brief statements" to police.

The investigators allege Mr Nigel Baden-Clay did not mention the Face Time call from his son's mobile phone.

Police investigators maintain that neither Mr Nigel Baden-Clay or Mrs Elaine Baden-Clay had consented to further interviews with police.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1yxAN0KZN

[willough]

Originally Posted by ozazure

The text messages really get my goat. Hey dad of the year do you want a fn medal for getting dressed and making lunches? Even in his alibi building bullrubbish text messages he is tooting his own horn to his murdered wife.

I know statement analysis isn't kosher around here and I have to agree a certain blogger takes things too far, but it is such an odd thing to say when you are cheerfully enquiring after your missing wife in a text. He probably had just got dressed, he didn't mention that for nought. It is significant to him for some reason. Unless Allison dressed him herself every day and this is why it is of note, I bet the washing machine and/or dryer were going when QPS showed up. He was having a right old spring clean that morning.

I know we can't tell other people what to write but if you are going to make up an alternate theory about other people than the accused being responsible it'd be ace if you made a disclaimer at the top that you are going to exclude the totality of evidence known at this point and cherry pick facts.

GO BAYBEE GO!!!!

Couldnt agree more.....

[DrWatson]

Originally Posted by BJsleuth

Fuskier, do you know how far from the house the screams were heard?

The "Red Zone" that the police put out as where the screams were heard is a couple of Km from the BC house, depending on how you go there. It is along the creek and parkland at Huntingdon, on Rafting Ground Rd. ABC could get there by walking up and over the school end of Boscombe Rd, then turn left. That way would be about 1.5 Km at a rough guess.

[FirstTimer]

Originally Posted by plentyofnous

My biggest conundrum with GBC is " where has all the money gone " it is ridiculously apparent it has gone somewhere, there has to be a habit

2nd conundrum is , can this guy be that stupid , really

3rd is where are his mates, associates, clients, former staff, anyone, no one to be seen heard, so many secrets

I strongly believe that the 2nd conundrum is not necessarily stupidity but down right arrogance, having that much faith in oneself that what they did was the right thing to do, that getting caught was a bump in the road, and that getting off will be easy.

[Bayside]

Originally Posted by Indromum

Are the wheel arches covered in fabric? Wouldn't bleach take the colour out? Any bleach on the market that doesn't 'bleach'?

Most cars/boats have polyprop carpet and bleach does not affect it.

[willough]

Originally Posted by Nads

And perhaps her head was clonked against the wheel arch and she bled?

Exactly what I think.....I think he folded her and her head was "clonked" against the wheel arch....and one of her orifices bled (nose, mouth, ear etc)

I have been reading....Can someone confirm to me, the lit up bit in the photos....Are they blood? or cleaner? If that is blood, OH MY FRIGGING GOD....Surely not.

[LauraMars]

Originally Posted by Nads

Just found an anomaly in reporting. Do you see anything wrong?

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...626-210bz.html

Mr Baden-Clay told the officer the scratches were caused by an old shaver.
In the documents, police said they appeared to be scratches "similar to scratches made by fingernails as they are not straight or clean cuts normally made by a sharp razor blade".


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1yx5u5uCm

Old razor/sharp razor blade?

And what's happened to the mentions of the very hungry caterpillar?? I still laugh at that one hehe

[wakeskate]

Originally Posted by Kruger

Correct children were at home, that leaves us with a number of possibilities

1. Children were left alone whilst accused allegedly disposed of body by himself.

2. Children were left alone whilst accused allegedly disposed of body with 2nd person either accomplice or accessory after the fact.

3. Children were 'minded' by 2nd person who must be now considered 'accessory after the fact' whilst accused allegedly disposed of body by himself.

4. Children were 'minded' by 3rd person who must be now considered 'accessory after the fact' whilst accused allegedly disposed of body with 2nd person either accomplice or accessory after the fact..

is there more that i may have missed????

I would think the facetime call to dad may have some link to who helped do what here, and if dad knows, you would almost guarantee that mum knows as well.

It's also a good chance the TV was left on so as to cover up talking and movements from the children and/or neighbours.
Maybe the chain of events are going to be aided by what the children watched on TV that night, given the request for the programming guide from that night or maybe one of the children were disturbed during the night or remember someone being in the home at the same time something was on the TV.

[willough]

Originally Posted by Bayside

Mr Baden-Clay's parents, Nigel and Elaine, gave "brief statements" to police.

The investigators allege Mr Nigel Baden-Clay did not mention the Face Time call from his son's mobile phone.

Police investigators maintain that neither Mr Nigel Baden-Clay or Mrs Elaine Baden-Clay had consented to further interviews with police.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1yxAN0KZN

Surprise surprise......They are fine art those two......Th type of art, one wants to throw tomatoes at.

[Isabellnecessary]

Originally Posted by willough

Exactly what I think.....I think he folded her and her head was "clonked" against the wheel arch....and one of her orifices bled (nose, mouth, ear etc)

I have been reading....Can someone confirm to me, the lit up bit in the photos....Are they blood? or cleaner? If that is blood, OH MY FRIGGING GOD....Surely not.

Investigators alleged that the smear was "a contact smear" and resulted in "a further droplet of blood falling below the smear onto the floor of the vehicle". Police allege the blood was identified as Mrs Baden-Clay's, but examinations into the hair were continuing.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz1yx9WwePR

[EllaN]

Originally Posted by CaseClosed

Another article - more details of debt:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226409554817

I just wanted to clarify GBC's debt situation. He owes approx 1 mil as discussed per court documents plus a $350000 mortgage (over parent's house?) plus a margin loan of $40000. All up almost $1400000, but he has share assets worth $150000 (could be super?)

[DrWatson]

OK - by way of being devil's advocate, as requested by somebody last night, here is a question of logic:

If we are speculating that those text messages were sent by GBC in the morning as a means of contributing to an alibi and appearance of innocence, presumably he would be doing so fully aware that his phone would reveal those. That, in fact, it was the desired effect.

If that were the case, then wouldn't it be reasonable that he would also be aware that calls - Facetime or otherwise - made during the night would also be revealed?

Could it be feasible (I'm not saying "likely" - just feasible) that the calls in the middle of the night WERE something which they want to keep hidden, for whatever reason, but that the texts in the morning were genuine?

Just a devil's advocate question - not saying that IS the case, just one possible explanation. How do we reconcile the fact that there seem to have been shonky calls in the middle of the night, yet the texts in the morning are supposed to be calculated for his alibi knowing that the phone would tell all?

[FirstTimer]

Originally Posted by ozazure

The text messages really get my goat. Hey dad of the year do you want a fn medal for getting dressed and making lunches? Even in his alibi building bullrubbish text messages he is tooting his own horn to his murdered wife.

I know statement analysis isn't kosher around here and I have to agree a certain blogger takes things too far, but it is such an odd thing to say when you are cheerfully enquiring after your missing wife in a text. He probably had just got dressed, he didn't mention that for nought. It is significant to him for some reason. Unless Allison dressed him herself every day and this is why it is of note, I bet the washing machine and/or dryer were going when QPS showed up. He was having a right old spring clean that morning.

I know we can't tell other people what to write but if you are going to make up an alternate theory about other people than the accused being responsible it'd be ace if you made a disclaimer at the top that you are going to exclude the totality of evidence known at this point and cherry pick facts.

Well said. Spot on.

Cheers.

[BJsleuth]

Originally Posted by DrWatson

The "Red Zone" that the police put out as where the screams were heard is a couple of Km from the BC house, depending on how you go there. It is along the creek and parkland at Huntingdon, on Rafting Ground Rd. ABC could get there by walking up and over the school end of Boscombe Rd, then turn left. That way would be about 1.5 Km at a rough guess.

Thank you. There are too many variables to conclude how far away a scream could be heard so my line of thought on that isn't going anywhere.

[Aussie_expat.sg]

Originally Posted by marlywings

GBC sent two text messages to Allison's phone am 20th April asking her where she was & signed it "love G"....one mentioned the girls are still asleep or aren't awake yet.....

Apologies if a bunch of you have already picked up on this, but i have to catch up after working last night on conf calls.

I hope the QPS looks through past SMS's and determines if he ALWAYS signs off with "love G".

[Opinionsgalore]

Originally Posted by DrWatson

OK - by way of being devil's advocate, as requested by somebody last night, here is a question of logic:

If we are speculating that those text messages were sent by GBC in the morning as a means of contributing to an alibi and appearance of innocence, presumably he would be doing so fully aware that his phone would reveal those. That, in fact, it was the desired effect.

If that were the case, then wouldn't it be reasonable that he would also be aware that calls - Facetime or otherwise - made during the night would also be revealed?

Could it be feasible (I'm not saying "likely" - just feasible) that the calls in the middle of the night WERE something which they want to keep hidden, for whatever reason, but that the texts in the morning were genuine?

Just a devil's advocate question - not saying that IS the case, just one possible explanation. How do we reconcile the fact that there seem to have been shonky calls in the middle of the night, yet the texts in the morning are supposed to be calculated for his alibi knowing that the phone would tell all?

The FaceTime call was only discovered the day of the bail hearing (?). The phone had to be sent interstate to allow a team to access otherwise unavailable information. This would indicate IMO that the FaceTime call had been deleted from the phones 'log' prior to it being given to police.


MOO

[Amee]

Originally Posted by BJsleuth

Thank you. There are too many variables to conclude how far away a scream could be heard so my line of thought on that isn't going anywhere.

"While I was standing outside we heard a third sound,'' Mr Truter told The Sunday Mail from his Brookfield property, about 4km from Mrs Baden-Clay's home.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/s...-1226341666902