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  #101  
Old 07-02-2012, 02:50 AM
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Well, I still believe in what I wrote in my post. Why didn't McQueary stop JS the moment he saw what was happening? All he did was leave a child victim in the hands of a child rapist in the shower, IMO. He left. He called his Dad, then they told Paterno the next morning, IIRC. That young boy was failed at every level.
I think because McQueary was in a complete state of shock. The act obviously stopped. We've even heard from Dranov as to McQueary's state when he told his father, who said the same thing.

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As for McQueary could have been 'hired away' at some point, McQueary was exactly where he wanted to be, IMO. Penn State. He probably would have never left. His aspirations were most likely to be the new Paterno when Paterno left. It is my opinion that McQueary knows even more than what he has said.

Until someone offers him a lot of money to go someplace, and maybe a better chance to become a head coach. In 2001, Paterno wasn't making any noises about retiring. He'd already outlasted one "successor," Sandusky.

Jay Paterno was also in the program, and the logical successor. The timing isn't right either, as noted.
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  #102  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Pensfan View Post
It's possible that one of Shultz', Raykovitz', Curley, and/or Spanier's defense attorney(s) spread this info to place all the blame on the dead guy who can't defend himself. Yep, all their clients wanted to do the "right thing", but most evil JoePa coerced them not to do the right thing.

(Remember the putrid actions of Jerry's defense attorneys? They gave Matt S's tape describing his embarrassing abuse to the Today Show without his permission in an attempt to punish him and make it appear that he was a horrid liar. MS finally was able to admit he was also sexually abused after his grand jury testimony had occurred.)
It wouldn't shock me to learn Schultz's attorney leaked the email. Based on his grand jury testimony, Schultz thought Curley had implemented the steps he suggested in his email, including reporting the incident to an outside agency. I can't say Schultz was entirely convincing, since he couldn't even name the agency, but it does give him a little separation from the rest of the Penn State 4.

As for as blaming the dead guy who can't defend himself, I wouldn't worry about Paterno -- he's got legions of defenders.
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  #103  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:39 AM
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BigCat: How would Schultz' atty have gotten those 2001 emails?

In 2004 there was a system change at PSU. Spanier thought that all the data (well, at least the emails) prior to that had been lost. Then, recently, it was determined that it was recoverable. So, it had been backed up prior to installing the new system.

And, it was turned over to the Atty Gen. That's why Spanier is now suing PSU. He wants his email traffic for the years 1998-2004. So he can refresh his memory when he cooperates with the Freeh investigation, he said.

So, Atty Gen has the emails. That man who was fired in the past few months over some related issue might have had them--at least Curley's--perhaps printed out. What does Freeh have and where did he get it?

And how would anybody's atty have the emails in question at this juncture?
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  #104  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:47 AM
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Mark Sherburne is the man i was referencing who was fired at PSU. His wife also works there. She does/did some coordinating of programs related to TSM. For a refresher on the details, it's at:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...thletic_2.html

Wait a minute, do Curley and Schultz have the same atty? If so, and IF Curley has a copy of those emails, then that's how Schultz's atty would've gotten them. Even if they have different attys, they could share evidence with each other.

Last edited by pinktoes; 07-02-2012 at 09:49 AM. Reason: add last para
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  #105  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:00 AM
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BigCat: How would Schultz' atty have gotten those 2001 emails?

In 2004 there was a system change at PSU. Spanier thought that all the data (well, at least the emails) prior to that had been lost. Then, recently, it was determined that it was recoverable. So, it had been backed up prior to installing the new system.

And, it was turned over to the Atty Gen. That's why Spanier is now suing PSU. He wants his email traffic for the years 1998-2004. So he can refresh his memory when he cooperates with the Freeh investigation, he said.

So, Atty Gen has the emails. That man who was fired in the past few months over some related issue might have had them--at least Curley's--perhaps printed out. What does Freeh have and where did he get it?

And how would anybody's atty have the emails in question at this juncture?
If he has them, then he got them from his client. I thought Schultz received a copy of the emails he did not send himself. I know if I was recommending going to an outside agency, I would have kept as much documentation as possible. Just a guess on my part.
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  #106  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:07 AM
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BigCat: How would Schultz' atty have gotten those 2001 emails?
The "secret file" was in Schultz's Office.

Further, they might have gotten them on discovery.
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  #107  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:21 AM
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A call for a special prosecutor to investigate both Corbett's conduct and Gricar's 1998 decision:

http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/i...ecutor_in.html
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  #108  
Old 07-02-2012, 11:33 AM
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So...it was Curley/Schultz' atty who leaked those recent emails to CNN? They have a hearing coming up in mid-July, related to their Aug trial.
  #109  
Old 07-02-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
I was referring to two separate victims.
You've referred to "B.K." as a victim in past posts as well, but the GJ presentment was very careful NOT to identify the victims by anything other than their initials:
"Victim 6, who is now 24 years old, was acquainted with Victim 5 and another young boy inThe Second Mile program, B.K.; their interaction with Sandusky overlapped."
I think "B.K." is listed as he is since he corroborated part of Victim 6' story, but was a minor at the time. If he were a victim, he would have been assigned a number.
Using initials on message boards is a slippery slope, especially when referring to victims and even worse when getting it wrong.
  #110  
Old 07-02-2012, 01:17 PM
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You've referred to "B.K." as a victim in past posts as well, but the GJ presentment was very careful NOT to identify the victims by anything other than their initials:
"Victim 6, who is now 24 years old, was acquainted with Victim 5 and another young boy inThe Second Mile program, B.K.; their interaction with Sandusky overlapped."
I think "B.K." is listed as he is since he corroborated part of Victim 6' story, but was a minor at the time. If he were a victim, he would have been assigned a number.
Using initials on message boards is a slippery slope, especially when referring to victims and even worse when getting it wrong.
First, "B. K." is how he is identified in the public grand jury report. I have no idea if those are his actual initials or not. They might have discussing how to identify him after getting take out at a Burger King for all I know. I have no idea if your real name is Benny or not either.

B. K. was subjected to similar treatment by Sandusky as Victim 6. He was known in 1998, but in 2011 he was overseas in the military and could not testify. That is why there were not 11 victims and he was not called. The statute of limitations has not expired on the incident and Sandusky might yet face charges relating to B. K.
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Last edited by J. J. in Phila; 07-02-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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  #111  
Old 07-02-2012, 01:21 PM
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http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...no_fans_m.html

"Patriot-News Capital Bureau Chief Jan Murphy had simultaneously been trying to get an answer out of Spanier — via email, his preferred avenue of correspondence — about what he knew of any improper conduct by Sandusky. On the afternoon of Sept. 16, 2010, she forwarded me this exchange:

Murphy: “Hi — Are you aware of any police investigation into Jerry Sandusky for suspected criminal activity that occurred while he was a Penn State employee? If so, can you elaborate on what you know. Thanks.”

Spanier: “I haven’t heard this. Can you tell me more?”

Murphy: “By ‘this,’ you are referring to any police investigation into Jerry Sandusky, correct?”

Spanier: “Correct.”

Murphy: “One more clarifying question on your statement. Are you aware of any suspected criminal behavior that Jerry Sandusky engaged in while he was a Penn State employee?”

Spanier: “I think I answered your question. The answer is ‘no.’ ”


Ganim wasn't working alone...
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  #112  
Old 07-02-2012, 02:21 PM
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Well, I still believe in what I wrote in my post. Why didn't McQueary stop JS the moment he saw what was happening? All he did was leave a child victim in the hands of a child rapist in the shower, IMO. He left. He called his Dad, then they told Paterno the next morning, IIRC. That young boy was failed at every level.

As for McQueary could have been 'hired away' at some point, McQueary was exactly where he wanted to be, IMO. Penn State. He probably would have never left. His aspirations were most likely to be the new Paterno when Paterno left. It is my opinion that McQueary knows even more than what he has said.

Just my thoughts and opinion. It's cool for each of us to have a differing opinion.

MOO
Amen and hallelujah. McQueary was in his late 20s and a division 1 (D1) college quarterback who by size alone could easily overpower Sandusky. A D1 quarterback (who started every game of his senior season) has to know how to think quickly and react quickly. He "slammed his locker shut" to stop it? Please. And what must have been going through the poor victim's head? He must have thought it was someone who could save him. Too bad the person who showed up was spineless. I'm not buying what McQueary is selling. He is a coward. IMO
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  #113  
Old 07-02-2012, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post
BigCat: How would Schultz' atty have gotten those 2001 emails?

In 2004 there was a system change at PSU. Spanier thought that all the data (well, at least the emails) prior to that had been lost. Then, recently, it was determined that it was recoverable. So, it had been backed up prior to installing the new system.

And, it was turned over to the Atty Gen. That's why Spanier is now suing PSU. He wants his email traffic for the years 1998-2004. So he can refresh his memory when he cooperates with the Freeh investigation, he said.

So, Atty Gen has the emails. That man who was fired in the past few months over some related issue might have had them--at least Curley's--perhaps printed out. What does Freeh have and where did he get it?

And how would anybody's atty have the emails in question at this juncture?
I don't know, but one of the articles I read last night (sorry, no link) stated that one of the victim's attorneys had READ the emails. Exaggeration? I don't know that either.

Perhaps smelling settlement $$$, the attorneys for Curley, Moe, and /or Larry are sharing the emails with the victims' attorneys.

Last edited by Pensfan; 07-02-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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  #114  
Old 07-02-2012, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
A call for a special prosecutor to investigate both Corbett's conduct and Gricar's 1998 decision:


http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/i...ecutor_in.html

There is a bit of bias in this article, but others without knowledge of PA's history of questionable AGs might find it interesting.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...eW6msuNKC2p1zg
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  #115  
Old 07-02-2012, 03:39 PM
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I don't think he would have been shocked if he was aware of Victim 6/B. K.

He would have had time to process it by the conversation with Curley.
I've posted before that what MM interpreted as 'shock', in that he said JP slumped back in his chair and looked stunned, could also be that JP WAS stunned, to learn that here these allegations were again after 1998, when he knew JS had been investigated and hopefully scared off abusing children, even though he was not charged. JS was at least out of the football program and JP thought his own involvement was over. Now, here is it again and happened in HIS program's quarters with an independent witness that did still work for him...it would be known, discussed, what to do to get it away from me and my program?...who can I trust to handle it? Why now, why me??

To me, this is just as plausible a scenario as him being just 'shocked'. IMO

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Originally Posted by Rlaub44 View Post
I have been wondering the same thing JJ. I also noted the wording in Curley's e-mail - "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe"; as if the second thoughts about the plan occurred before the conversation with Paterno.

This whole thing is horrific - Central PA Gothic to be sure - but I wish I knew exactly how this happened. In any case, it was a horrible decision and a terrible lack of judgment by people who should have known better, especially if, as we now have heard, they sought legal advice before choosing Plan B.
BBM - However, even the way you put it with the 2nd thoughts by Curley coming first (about changing the plan) and then the convo with Paterno possibly running those changes by him, he still indicates no argument from Paterno about the changes and indicates he is on board, as J. J. also said.

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Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
Well, I think you need evidence that he knew. It is possible, certainly, but possible isn't the same as, "It happened."
I fully understand that. I never stated 'it happened' this way. Did you and others miss that in my post it was explained this was a process of deduction I was making from the available information and that it was IMO? I think that's allowed here, right?

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Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post
BigCat: How would Schultz' atty have gotten those 2001 emails?

In 2004 there was a system change at PSU. Spanier thought that all the data (well, at least the emails) prior to that had been lost. Then, recently, it was determined that it was recoverable. So, it had been backed up prior to installing the new system.

And, it was turned over to the Atty Gen. That's why Spanier is now suing PSU. He wants his email traffic for the years 1998-2004. So he can refresh his memory when he cooperates with the Freeh investigation, he said.

So, Atty Gen has the emails. That man who was fired in the past few months over some related issue might have had them--at least Curley's--perhaps printed out. What does Freeh have and where did he get it?

And how would anybody's atty have the emails in question at this juncture?
From their clients? It's very possible various ones involved, seems Schultz most possible since he supposedly has the 'secret file', copied all the emails written between the 3 of them, as a record and protection in the future. They all obviously knew this was a very sticky situation and might come back to bite them in the butt later on, which it did and has.

Been there, done that...when I was a state admin, used to copy a lot of emails between my boss and myself regarding various cases being worked on in the district offices, as he waved with the wind and HIS bosses, and liked to delete his emails so he could have deniability. I did it for the same reasons, a record and protection/proof of what he had earlier agreed to and/or told me to do.

Last edited by Reader; 07-02-2012 at 03:44 PM. Reason: correct curley to schultz
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  #116  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:01 PM
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There is a bit of bias in this article, but others without knowledge of PA's history of questionable AGs might find it interesting.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...eW6msuNKC2p1zg
Read and saved....very interesting...thanks!
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  #117  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:26 PM
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Paterno family: Release all emails and records

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read...org%3E&ps=1011

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP) Joe Paterno's family is calling on the Pennsylvania attorney general and former FBI Director Louis Freeh to release all emails and records related to their investigations into the Penn State child sex abuse scandal.
------

CNN reported one email outlined a change in plans among administrators after Athletic Director Tim Curley spoke to Paterno.

Short article....
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  #118  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:37 PM
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2001 Penn State Officials Discussed Jerry Sandusky With Lawyers For 3 Hours

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footbal...rup/in/2304037

Quote:
That's three hours of lawyering, at least two rounds of emails, at least one meeting with accuser Mike McQueary, one apparent meeting with Joe Paterno and a potential eventual sit-down with Sandusky himself, but not a single phone call to police or child welfare authorities. Unsurprisingly, Curley and Schultz face perjury charges.
Little more at link....
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  #119  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:47 PM
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This case is/was relatively simple. I'm glad the jury saw that. If we take away all of the grandeur of Penn State, the positions held, those who held them, football etc. etc. It's simple. Jerry Sandusky is a Pedophile who raped young boys while some chose to allow it. Now on to who turned a blind eye
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  #120  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:16 PM
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Read and saved....very interesting...thanks!
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  #121  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:32 PM
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Paterno family: Release all emails and records

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read...org%3E&ps=1011

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP) Joe Paterno's family is calling on the Pennsylvania attorney general and former FBI Director Louis Freeh to release all emails and records related to their investigations into the Penn State child sex abuse scandal.
------

CNN reported one email outlined a change in plans among administrators after Athletic Director Tim Curley spoke to Paterno.

Short article....
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
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  #122  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:35 PM
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Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
I look at it like a bandage over hairy skin. Just rip it off, as soon as possible and as fast as possible, so it gets the pain over and done in one big jolt. I think both Paterno's supporters and family members need this to happen!
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  #123  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:40 PM
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Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
And it may not be the result they hope for. But maybe they know Joe didn't use email and would would take it as vindication that there is no paper "proof" that Joe acted improperly, only the words of Curley and Spanier?
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  #124  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:40 PM
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I look at it like a bandage over hairy skin. Just rip it off, as soon as possible and as fast as possible, so it gets the pain over and done in one big jolt. I think both Paterno's supporters and family members need this to happen!
I agree. Who knows what may have been said on his deathbed. Regardless thankfully there are people who choose to accept the true rather than live with a despicable lie.
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  #125  
Old 07-02-2012, 08:11 PM
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And it may not be the result they hope for. But maybe they know Joe didn't use email and would would take it as vindication that there is no paper "proof" that Joe acted improperly, only the words of Curley and Spanier?
Curley, Schultz, and Spanier, and maybe a few others from 1998.
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